Bardic Specialisation

Sylvance

So, Bards have to 'specialise' in one of the five Bardic instruments, that is, choose which of the five they will use to play their Harmonics.  200 years ago I chose to play the lyre and have never regretted the decision.

I'm just curious as to whether anybody knows why there is Specialisation in Harmonics?  As far as I can tell it makes no difference to anything at all; the instrument is not even mentioned when using Harmonics; no effect on the effects of Harmonics.  It costs 100 lessons to unspecialise, yet I can't see any reason why anybody would; if I wanted to RP being a harpist, I'd just by a harp for 5k (6 lessons) and then RP it.  In short, it seems like it should be a big decision, yet doesn't at all feel like one.

Any thoughts?

Also, does any other class have anything similar to this? Might throw some light on the subject.

ETA: Ideas to the Dais. - Cardan.

Sena

Sentinels have a choice between spears and tridents (which have the same stats, so it's also just an aesthetic difference), but those are more visible than bardic instruments.

Silas

Do you have to wield the instrument to play the harmonics?

Cahin

Never understood the point in hardcoded specializations when it's purely aesthetic.

Lucine

I think that perhaps due to the mystical nature of harmonics, you then choose one type of vessel to perform them with.

I think something that could be fun is making people get proficient with instruments by playing them.  I mean, even a knight has to practice with a weapon for awhile before they are able to use a weapon well.  It'd likely be the same for an instrument.

Oceana

Sylvance

Silas said:

Do you have to wield the instrument to play the harmonics?

@Silas - Yes; we have to juggle (sadly, not Juggle) an instrument, weapon and shield, which is actually fun.

@Lucine - love your idea. Maybe a PRACTISE <instrument> command that lets us improve our skill with the instrument, with a hefty cooldown - just purely aesthetic though without actually changing the effect of Harmonics.

Antidas

if im the only one who knows exactly what thats from, will be very disappointed in all of your childhoods. /derail

Silas

I even remembered his name.

However, proficiency in an instrument makes sense if it's visible that you're playing that instrument.

Iocun

Silas said:

I even remembered his name.

I remember his name in three languages!

Synbios

Antidas said:

if im the only one who knows exactly what thats from, will be very disappointed in all of your childhoods. /derail

Menhirs and boars, anyone?

Sylvance

Well would folks support a simple system of PRACTISE <instrument> that allows you to improve your proficiency, the effect of such being a small aesthetic addition to the Harmonics lines?

For instance:

Currently - "You enter into the realms of the divine as you play the opening strains of a sacred Canticle."

Rank 0 - "You ineptly enter into the realms of the divine as you play the opening strains of a sacred Canticle."

Rank 5 - "You passably enter into the realms of the divine as you play the opening strains of a sacred Canticle."

Rank 10 - "You flawlessly enter into the realms of the divine as you play the opening strains of a sacred Canticle."

Equally, it could be that any non-Bard can learn an instrument for 100 lessons (the current cost of Unspecializing (in order to Respecialize, I can only imagine)), and then they can practise to get good at it.

I do appreciate that this is potentially a fair amount of work (Harmonics being a full skillset) for what would be a purely RP mechanic that most folks wouldn't be too fussed about. That being the case, can I also suggest the alternative of simply doing away with Specialization?

EDIT: Third alternative might be to allow further free Specializations to be added to the Harmonic abilities that increase the number of Harmonics that can be played in a room.  This way, a Transcendant Harmonician could play any instrument.

Melodie

I would love to have Mel play a harp, as that's been apart of her very old RP since I made her. Yes please.

Off to work, will expand on thoughts later.

Silas

I'd love the ability to play musical instruments, honestly.

Aerek

I never realized you had to pick a specialization in an instrument. If you do, then I feel like there should be some advantages/disadvantages/perks to different instruments. That's probably something that would require a full classlead and lots of brainstorming and research, though.

Vasool

Ditto what Silas and Aerek said.

Lucine

I'd love to let Lucine have an instrument to play.  She always tries to be musical, by singing, but sounds more like a cat in heat.  Maybe she'd finally be able to get out that pent up musical energy by playing a lute or something!

Melodie

I definitely always felt bards lacked more unique aspects. @Aerek's idea sounds interesting for a good push forward though. When I originally started Achaea, Mel was a Bard (surprise surprise), but harmonics felt so underdone, and I just did not enjoy swashbuckling. If things got fixed up a bit, I'd definitely consider a bard alt.

I think it would be nice if -everyone- could learn to play instruments, but only Bards could use them to any kind of mechanical benefit - for the rest of us, it'd just be flavor.

I also want a piano-forte, but I suppose I'll have to plug for large, standing instruments another day.

Edit: Not to play the "this IRE game has this feature I want" game, but Lusternia bards were always much, much more appealing to me, both utility and RP-wise.

Iocun

Melodie said:

I also want a piano-forte, but I suppose I'll have to plug for large, standing instruments another day.

I know pianos actually exist (or at least, one piano exists) in Achaea and that Achaea has many aspects that are much more modern than this, but somehow pianos still strike me as too modern for Achaea. I prefer earlier instruments (you know, lutes, lyres, drums, flutes, trumpets, etc.). But that's just my personal gut feeling and not entirely rational.

Anaidiana

that'd be a virginal, organ, or harpsichord, if you're looking at a medieval/renaissance era keyboard instrument. </music teacher>

and please add another +1 for letting us learn instruments like proficiencies. please please. I love this idea!

Iocun

I'd really shy away from keyboard instruments altogether, personally. Yes, I know harpsichords and related instruments were invented in the late middle ages and that there were organs even in Roman times, but those instruments are all much more typical of later (such as baroque) music (i.e. they really began to bloom with the emergence of the basso continuo). But as I said, there's no rational explanation why Achaea shouldn't have elements of that time, which it does in other aspects. Just my personal feeling.

Anaidiana

that and the whole lack of portability. Unless we do like, a keytar, but that's so not kosher it's not even funny.  >.>

Sylvance

Melodie said:

Edit: Not to play the "this IRE game has this feature I want" game, but Lusternia bards were always much, much more appealing to me, both utility and RP-wise.

@Melodie - Hah! It took every mote of willpower for me not to mention Lusty in my posts But you're right; Lusternia bards are utterly amazing.

@Aerek - Fair point; classlead is the way forward for the Bardic half of this debate.

So, in terms of non-Bard use of instruments I guess we're left with a rather obvious set of questions: What would y'all like to be able to do with instruments that you can't already? What would be the IG point of mastering an instrument? Because right now you could head up to Caer Witrin, buy an instrument and emote/illusion to your heart's content.

Here's my ten cents just to get things rolling; the caveat is that I don't RP a musician:

Make a 'Music' miniskill that improves with practise, as per previous suggestions in this thread.  Throw in a PERFORM <instrument> command, and make it so that a musician, wielding an instrument, can go into any tavern in the game and perform for the locals there. Depending on the musician's skill (and maybe a bonus for collaborating with other musicians?) the musician gets some flavour text that involves either applause or decaying vegetation, gold and XP - essentially a quest. Slap a one-day cooldown on each tavern (one-week if the rewards are big) and a TOUR command later on in the skillset that let's you check the cooldown.

This would add a mechanic that allowed a person to roleplay a professional musician. Throw in a musician ranking system and a few aesthetic touches whereby denizens are dropping the names of their favourite adventurer musician and we're in business.  I'll shut up now, because I know nothing about coding, so I really don't know what I'm asking.

Wysteria

Don't forget (on a minor...no pun) level the harp in Arcadia and also the fiddle of Green Lake. I'd love for Wyst to be able to learn an instrument, most she did was sing a few shanties while sailing or some songs she recited for a ritual. I played violin and percussion for a few years so this would be cool to kick in. Though I reckon an ocarina or the pipes that Jen had in Jim Henson's The Dark Crystal would be awesome.

Tahquil

Big no to any type of XP reward.

If we are making a music miniskill I think the training will have to be dramatically dramatically drawn out. Instead of, sit in a room with a denizen for 2 hours spamming LEARN HARMONICA FROM BILLY-BOB-THORTON the learning structure should be akin to that of our current language system. 

You go to a specific tutor once a day, pay a small fee of gold and lessons and learn a little bit. First skill you receive is 'practice' which you allows you to practice an instrument, while you can spam this skill to your hearts content it will only give you a slight bonus once every four hours (like the small bonus grove users get from their beehives). Each instrument this way will have their own proficiency like weapons but you can't spam attack to raise it. It will take time. The rest of the skills could be differing types of songs you can play, how well you play them will be measured up to how proficient you are in that instrument.

HOWEVER - this seems to be a bit involved on the code side of things and i don't see much coming from it in the future.

Sylvance

Tahquil said:

Big no to any type of XP reward.

@Tahquil - How come? Genuine question.

Sylvance

If we are making a music miniskill I think the training will have to be dramatically dramatically drawn out. Instead of, sit in a room with a denizen for 2 hours spamming LEARN HARMONICA FROM BILLY-BOB-THORTON the learning structure should be akin to that of our current language system. 

Yes, I quite agree that it should take a very long time indeed to master an instrument (I also think that Bards should get some kind of bonus to this time, but it should still require lots of 'work').  I really do feel that you should be able to PRACTISE the instrument to improve your proficiency, though, even if this is done alongside a system of LEARNing.

Tahquil

I'm not a fan of XP for no risk. Even if people are hunting things far below their level or your steam rolling a city with a gank squad, there are still risks involved that standing in an empty roll plunking inexpertly on a mandolin just doesn't have. 

Sylvance

I'm not a fan of XP for no risk. Even if people are hunting things far below their level or your steam rolling a city with a gank squad, there are still risks involved that standing in an empty roll plunking inexpertly on a mandolin just doesn't have. 

Are there not quests with no risk? If what you're worried about is people strumming from Flame to Dragon, I'm fairly sure that the size of any reward, and sensible cooldowns, would nip that in the bud fairly early on. RP wise it just opens up another avenue of strengthening your character, besides systematic slaughter

EDIT - I appreciate that this largely comes down to a fairly wide debate about what the 'point' of Achaea should be. If we agree that strong RP is one of the cornerstones of the game, then I'm left with the quandry of reconciling a ditzy siren Bard who flits between taking life too seriously and not seriously enough with a village full of dead orcs. For some characters, the only possible reason that they would go out killing things is "iwannabeadwagon!". I'm not saying that I'm right, or even that such characters have a place in the game; simply explaining my wish for a wider variety of things like 'thinking quests' (damn, but I hate those mazes...), Chorale and the priesty sermon skill.

Right, I'm gonna stop typing in this thread now.

:-@

Silas

There should be no xp reward, no matter immaturely I giggled at strumming to dragon.

Just give the different instruments reactions that would grow increasingly complex based on your mastery in its proficiency. Pure RP reward for a pure RP investment.

Alyana

I would argue agains't xp gain just because I feel like it would make it so most people have learned an interment by partway through their IG lives. It would just make it so much less unique and cool for those who actually went out of their way to learn