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Shaman Changes when are they coming?

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  • JovoloJovolo

    Sigh

  • TectonTecton The Garden of the Gods

    Austere said:

    @Tecton‌ out of curiosity,  why were most of the suggestions for Shaman blocked the last round of classleads when there was going to be such a huge delay.  Not trying to complain or criticizing,  so I apologize if it comes of that way.  I am just curious as to whether you guys had a plan and decided not to follow through and change it,  or what.

    Edit: While shaman is by no means broken,  it does have rough spots that got to the irritating point of quitting for people like me.  It's definitely one of the least popular classes, so it needs tlc. Glad I was impatient. 

    We had anticipated that we would have been starting on Shamans sooner. We're only a very small team (Makarios and I [and my time is particularly divided with running the rest of the game] are the only ones who do combat changes and balancing), combined with shifting priorities and other projects resulted in it being pushed back.

    Looking back, knowing what we know now, we probably should have put some of the changes in to smooth some of the rough edges, even if it was highly unlikely that they'd last past the overhaul. We're getting closer every day now though, so stay tuned!

  • AchimrstAchimrst Nature

    Yes! Revenge!

    For @Makarios and @Tecton only, you all get your own!

    #Joking #Thoughtyoucouldusealaugh


  • AlaricAlaric Canada

    I love the fishes cause they're so delicious 


    Cahin said:
    Obliterate was a fair and balanced ability and it's removal from puppetry and vodun should have been a crime.
  • TalysinTalysin
    edited August 2014

    @Tecton any chance at a confirmation for some upcoming fundamental changes to Jester? Are we deleting vodun/puppetry?

  • TectonTecton The Garden of the Gods
    Talysin said:

    @Tecton any chance at a confirmation for some upcoming fundamental changes to Jester? Are we deleting vodun/puppetry?

    No plans on removing that aspect from the game, no.

  • BluefBluef Delos
    Tecton said:
    Talysin said:

    @Tecton any chance at a confirmation for some upcoming fundamental changes to Jester? Are we deleting vodun/puppetry?

    No plans on removing that aspect from the game, no.

    You just made me so very, very, very, very very --> to infinity and beyond --> happy! :heart: 

  • AchimrstAchimrst Nature
    Tecton said:
    Talysin said:

    @Tecton any chance at a confirmation for some upcoming fundamental changes to Jester? Are we deleting vodun/puppetry?

    No plans on removing that aspect from the game, no.

    No plans on removing it from Jester!

    Bluef said:
    Tecton said:
    Talysin said:

    @Tecton any chance at a confirmation for some upcoming fundamental changes to Jester? Are we deleting vodun/puppetry?

    No plans on removing that aspect from the game, no.

    You just made me so very, very, very, very very --> to infinity and beyond --> happy! :heart: 

    HOPES DASHED!!!!

  • BluefBluef Delos
    edited August 2014
    Tecton said:
    Talysin said:

    @Tecton any chance at a confirmation for some upcoming fundamental changes to Jester? Are we deleting vodun/puppetry?

    No plans on removing that aspect from the game, no.

    @Tecton‌Just for clarification sake...and maybe because a group of us were talking about it tonight and analyzing your every word here...When you say "that aspect" (ie. making dolls/puppets) can you confirm that the statement about not removing it applies to both shaman and jester classes? Thanks!

  • TalysinTalysin

    Yes, bow to Jesters, masters of puppetry.

  • AlaricAlaric Canada

    Twisting your mind and smashing your dreams!


    Cahin said:
    Obliterate was a fair and balanced ability and it's removal from puppetry and vodun should have been a crime.
  • RazhaRazha
    I'd rather have Tarot as a shaman than Vodun. I don't understand why anyone likes this skill.
  • RazhaRazha
    edited September 2014
    Daeir said:
    Uhh. Look at it a little bit, I'm sure you'll figure it out.
    There are a couple neat tricks in there, but fashioning might be the most annoying thing in the world. It'd be better if you just fashion the damn thing in one round and then balance the tree around that.
  • JovoloJovolo
    Then it would be woefully underwhelming. The mechanics of it could be changed, but the approximate length really should stay the same unless they want to delete mangle and bleed.
  • BlujixapugBlujixapug
    Razha said:
    Daeir said:
    Uhh. Look at it a little bit, I'm sure you'll figure it out.
    There are a couple neat tricks in there, but fashioning might be the most annoying thing in the world. It'd be better if you just fashion the damn thing in one round and then balance the tree around that.
    This would require a complete redesign of the skill.

    The premise behind dolls is that you spend time building up a resource (fashions), then expend it to deliver bursts of powerful afflictions (mangle, concussion, blackout), with relatively low EQ/balance costs. Those low EQ/balance costs are balanced by the fashion resource which limits repeated casts. Mangle has something like a 2s EQ cost to deal an affliction with a 4s cure balance (IIRC), which would be utterly broken if there were no secondary cast requirements like fashions to limit its use.

    Fashioning gives jesters and shamans a unique ebb and flow compared to other affliction classes. They fashion up (period of low/no pressure), then attempt their kill method (period of very high pressure) until they run out of fashions, then return to step 1.
    image
  • JovoloJovolo
    edited September 2014
    @Bluef disagree because?
  • BluefBluef Delos
    edited September 2014
    Jovolo said:
    @Bluef disagree because?
    I think that disagree was just a product of my clicking on the thread to scroll. No disagreement from me on that - it would become woefully underwhelming. I also agree that the mechanics could be changed.

    Personally, I don't want to see huge gains in fashioning but at least some way to gain fashions somewhat faster or additional fashions randomly would be nice.

    The way it stands now, anyone counting fashions or with the doll/puppet lines highlighted can tell when we have enough fashions to do our thing. Then they simply run away, wait out the hour, and that's that. They likely had 2-3 chances to do their set up and try to kill us while we hindered and gained fashions (and then never got to do anything with them). 

    Pre-emptively noting too that there are other ways to kill people and ways that use less fashions, but if we're talking about making shaman a class that is PvP accessible to many people (read attractive, a class people want to play) these are the kind of things that will need to be sorted out. 
  • BluefBluef Delos

    Razha said:
    I'd rather have Tarot as a shaman than Vodun. I don't understand why anyone likes this skill.
    Vodun travel basically works like earrings. 

    Vodun summon goes through cloak tattoo. 

    Vodun skills (some not all) are hidden the same way blights are. 

    Vodun slow is amazing and I much prefer it to tarot.

    Vodun leech is great for lazy people. 

    Vodun illusion is awesome for roleplay. 

    Vodun listen offers a chance to play at espionage.

    I've played the other wiccan/shamanic classes in every other IRE game. Sure there are some abilities that just need to go in Vodun (tickle, burn, maybe throttle) but all in all I love this skillset in Achaea. 
  • JovoloJovolo
    Tickle can be amazing, PvP-wise. Semi agree with the rest
  • AchimrstAchimrst Nature
    You may love it, but soon they will take it from us. Because we love it too much @_@
  • EldEld
    Bluef said:

    Personally, I don't want to see huge gains in fashioning but at least some way to gain fashions somewhat faster or additional fashions randomly would be nice.

    Isn't that what truefashion does? 
  • CooperCooper
    Nahhhhhhhhh.

  • AchimrstAchimrst Nature
    Eld said:
    Bluef said:

    Personally, I don't want to see huge gains in fashioning but at least some way to gain fashions somewhat faster or additional fashions randomly would be nice.

    Isn't that what truefashion does? 
    Truefashion is what she is talking about, it's not as fast as you think. Especially when you have to run from a mangle set up or really any other set up in order to get the fashions. Fashions are always delayed by being attacked :(
  • AntoniusAntonius
    I never realised that Jester and Shaman are the only classes whose offense is interrupted by being forced to go on the defensive, and who have to avoid kill executions.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • EldEld
    Achimrst said:
    Eld said:
    Bluef said:

    Personally, I don't want to see huge gains in fashioning but at least some way to gain fashions somewhat faster or additional fashions randomly would be nice.

    Isn't that what truefashion does? 
    Truefashion is what she is talking about, it's not as fast as you think. Especially when you have to run from a mangle set up or really any other set up in order to get the fashions. Fashions are always delayed by being attacked :(
    Didn't mean to be commenting on whether faster fashions are needed or not (I don't know nearly enough about vodun/puppetry to judge). The wording was just odd and made me wonder if I was wrong about the ability.
  • RazhaRazha
    Achimrst said:
    Eld said:
    Bluef said:

    Personally, I don't want to see huge gains in fashioning but at least some way to gain fashions somewhat faster or additional fashions randomly would be nice.

    Isn't that what truefashion does? 
    Truefashion is what she is talking about, it's not as fast as you think. Especially when you have to run from a mangle set up or really any other set up in order to get the fashions. Fashions are always delayed by being attacked :(
    Exactly why I don't like this skill. It's just not fun or interesting to avoid someone over and over until you get a doll made. They're also no fun to fight either, imo.
  • AchimrstAchimrst Nature
    Eld said:
    Achimrst said:
    Eld said:
    Bluef said:

    Personally, I don't want to see huge gains in fashioning but at least some way to gain fashions somewhat faster or additional fashions randomly would be nice.

    Isn't that what truefashion does? 
    Truefashion is what she is talking about, it's not as fast as you think. Especially when you have to run from a mangle set up or really any other set up in order to get the fashions. Fashions are always delayed by being attacked :(
    Didn't mean to be commenting on whether faster fashions are needed or not (I don't know nearly enough about vodun/puppetry to judge). The wording was just odd and made me wonder if I was wrong about the ability.
    Truefashion is like getting a crit while hunting, you don't get it every time but sometimes you can get them several times in a row!
  • BluefBluef Delos
    Truefashion does increase the fashions when it hits, yet. But we don't accumulate fashions as fast as some people may think. Right now truefashion offers an extra chance at a fashion when it hits. But it doesn't always hit. That's why I'd really prefer a random chance to get between 1-X number of fashions - or some other way to increase the speed at which dolls are fashioned (@Jovolo had an idea for a tethering ability).

    While I don't like that things seems a little imbalanced (for lack of a better word) on some things right now, I love that shaman (and jester) are both highly innovative classes that call upon people to get creative.

    It doesn't sound like shaman may be the class for you though, @Razha‌. If that's the case, then switch into something you might enjoy like Bard.
  • AchimrstAchimrst Nature
    Bluef said:
    Truefashion does increase the fashions when it hits, yet. But we don't accumulate fashions as fast as some people may think. Right now truefashion offers an extra chance at a fashion when it hits. But it doesn't always hit. That's why I'd really prefer a random chance to get between 1-X number of fashions - or some other way to increase the speed at which dolls are fashioned (@Jovolo had an idea for a tethering ability).

    While I don't like that things seems a little imbalanced (for lack of a better word) on some things right now, I love that shaman (and jester) are both highly innovative classes that call upon people to get creative.

    It doesn't sound like shaman may be the class for you though, @Razha‌. If that's the case, then switch into something you might enjoy like Bard.
    Of course you're forgetting that fashioning is probably going to be a Jester thing from now on :P
  • RazhaRazha
    Bluef said:
    Truefashion does increase the fashions when it hits, yet. But we don't accumulate fashions as fast as some people may think. Right now truefashion offers an extra chance at a fashion when it hits. But it doesn't always hit. That's why I'd really prefer a random chance to get between 1-X number of fashions - or some other way to increase the speed at which dolls are fashioned (@Jovolo had an idea for a tethering ability).

    While I don't like that things seems a little imbalanced (for lack of a better word) on some things right now, I love that shaman (and jester) are both highly innovative classes that call upon people to get creative.

    It doesn't sound like shaman may be the class for you though, @Razha‌. If that's the case, then switch into something you might enjoy like Bard.
    I'm not a shaman, because of this, is what I was saying.
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