CLAN SHOW /CLAN HIDE /CLAN SHOW ALL and PARTY

Jules

Once you get past 10 clans, it's just disheartening looking at them all.  I'd like to be able to CLAN HIDE <clan>, which would both remove that clan from CLAN LIST, and also remove the toggle number assigned to it, so that only unhidden clans would have a toggle number assigned, and only the unhidden clans would show up in CLAN LIST.  I would still *hear* all of my clans unless they were turned off, but I could drastically pare down what I am working with in CLAN LIST (i.e. channels I actually speak on with some regularity).  To put a hidden clan back in the lineup, you'd CLAN SHOW <clan>, which would assign the next toggle number up and make the clan visible in CLAN LIST again.  To see all of your clans (say, to get the clan alias in order to do CLAN SHOW <clan>), you would CLAN SHOW ALL.  

Clan proliferation (and in particular, org clan proliferation) seems absolutely out of control, and this is really a bandaid, but bandaids aren't always bad, and I don't see the clan proliferation problem being sorted any time soon (just the opposite, it's steadily getting worse for now).  There are a lot of clans I'm required to join, or that if would just be difficult to refuse joining.  There is even a clan I stay in because once in a blue moon someone tells a good story about tritons.  From a playerbase standpoint, the way clans are right now creates more splintering than seems desirable, but also just gets mechanically cumbersome because of clans' reliance on number toggling.  I'd really like to see a lot of channel consolidation and paring (even some beyond clans), but that would be an uphill battle, and again, I don't see it happening any time time soon.  

Also, have PARTY retain people until they PARTY QUIT.  This is how RING (Imperian's PARTY) works, and I think it's a superior product.  It becomes a quasi-clan without help files or news posts, and a lower level of commitment overall.  Also, no toggling!  

Antonius

What exactly are you doing with clans that requires you to know their numbers or check CLAN LIST on a regular basis? Reading HELP files and talking on channels can all be achieved using the clan alias, which never changes.

Jules

I can only read the help files if I'm selected to the clan.  Otherwise, CLANHELP <clan> just gives you the membership positions.  That's not really a huge deal, I guess, but it doesn't seem to work.  As for talking, I get that I could have aliases for CLAN <clan> TELL on clans I use more often (and for now that is probably the right answer), but this seems a lot cleaner

Eilona

I think the point being made was that you can CLAN SWITCH <short name>, so you don't need to look at your ridiculously long clan list to check numbers. 

Jules

^Right, I do understand there is a shortname for each clan (CLAN <clan> TELL).

Trey

I don't really understand where you're going with this idea. Specifically, what would hiding clans from showing up on CLAN LIST accomplish other than your list looking shorter? If that's the only reason, it sounds like a fairly specific complaint, and not a problem with the inherent function of clans as a whole. On the plus side if that's the case, you can probably throw 10cr or so at someone to have them code you a gagging system for it, or something.

Jules

I'd like it because in addition to giving me a much shorter list to look at, it gets me back down to a very low amount of assigned toggle numbers, so I can just CLT<number> with those.  

I am aware there is almost always a coding solution to something like this (and I am living with it).  That's what the last several posts have been about.  The reason I'd really like this bandaid is that clans are unique among channels in their reliance on a toggle system (which is a smart idea that makes one set of commands do a lot of work), but back when that toggle system was implemented, I bet it was with about 10 clans (and perhaps 1 or 2 more at most) in mind, not the 15-20 (and sometimes much more) that so many of us actually have.  I actually just pulled the plug on several clans, including a couple I probably technically am not "allowed" to quit, and it's still a daunting list.  I can make my own short alias to speak on all the channels I use, and if I really can't stand the list, I could find someone to help gag and ungag the clans I don't want to see, and perhaps even to alias over the existing clan numbers so I could use CLT<number> vice having aliases for all of them using <clan>.  

Years ago I asked for the original WARESLIST to make weaponprobe and shopping easier and neater, which was also something that "had a coding solution", and believe me, I got told that, repeatedly.  Thankfully a few people, and admin, recognized it might be something people would really like.  The result was so popular X-LISTS have been consistently expanded as people ask for more of them (in fact I'd love to have Imperian's DECAYLIST).  In this case, we had a system that worked fine (with about 10 clans), and works less fine with the number of clans so many people have now.  This may or may not be something that would have that sort of positive response, but the question is more about whether it would make an essential non-combat utility more user friendly, rather than "does it have a coding solution"? 

Also, I hope people don't completely forget about the possible PARTY change, which is also on the table.

Sybilla

Instead of using CLAN SWITCH #, you know you can use CLAN SWITCH <clanalias> right? As in CLAN SWITCH MUDLET will switch to mudlet clan no matter the number/where it appears on your clan list?

21.2 BASIC CLAN COMMANDS
<snip>
CLAN MOVEUP #|name
CLAN MOVEDOWN #|name
   - Move given clan up or down to a smaller or larger number in your list.
     So CLAN MOVEUP 3 would move the clan at 3 to 2 (and put 2 at 3).
CLAN SWITCH <clan number or clan alias>
   - When you list your clans, you will see that each is given a number.
     Because nearly all of the below commands will work automatically on your
     current clan, and because you can belong to multiple clans, there must be
     a way to switch which clan the commands work on. This is it.

   - You do not have to use the clan switch command to use most of the clan
     commands on a clan different from your current clan. Instead, you may
     simply make the second word of the command the clan alias or clan number.
     For instance, say your current clan is clan #1, and you wish to see what
     clan members are in clan #2. You could either do:
        CLAN SWITCH 2
        CLAN MEMBERS
            or
        CLAN 2 MEMBERS (ie see the clan members for clan #2)

Does this not work? I don't get what you're trying to do basically. If you only use 10 out of 30 clans, move those 10 clans up the list, so that they number 1-10 and use those numbers. Anything after 10 can just continue being a jumbled mess without you needing to look at it.

Trey

Jules said:

This may or may not be something that would have that sort of positive response, but the question is more about whether it would make an essential non-combat utility more user friendly, rather than "does it have a coding solution"? 

That's what I mean, though. I'm not seeing where it would make things more user friendly. What's inherently harder about typing CLAN SWITCH 25 instead of CLAN SWITCH 15, or using the shortnames like most of us do? Even if it's a change motivated by reading slower than molasses (I'm not sure why you think the long list is 'daunting', I guess it might be this?), I'm sure you learned a lot of the aliases by heart already (The Midnight Crew - TMC, Whiners Anonymous - CLAN SWITCH 14, etc.)

I guess my real question is 'What makes having more than 10 clans a detriment/daunting task?'. I'd definitely like to understand, because right now utilizing the CLAN SWITCH command seems easy enough, and I can't imagine you're basing it on having to press one extra number when using CLT1, CLT2 etc.

Jules

For now, I'd like to move on to the PARTY suggestion.  The other request is what it is, as described, and I do understand there are ways to live with things as they are.  But yeah, I think PARTY retaining members through logout (until they PARTY QUIT) works great, and should be considered over here in Achaea.  

Trey

Eh. I'm not crazy about it, but there's no reason I can come up with why they shouldn't do that.

Jules

Yeah, that's fair.  Honestly, if I hadn't happened to see how it plays out over Imperian, I'd be "whatever" too.  Whoever thought of it is either really good at seeing how people might use things, or it's just a happy accident.  

It's nice because it creates an impromptu "clan".  I hesitate to say that because people might think it's being "exploited" to avoid buying a real one, but that's really the best way to put it.  It's a quasi-clan without the commitment, and is obviously very flexible.  It's not as though clans aren't popular over there though, so I don't think their PARTY is killing clan business or anything.  And of course no scrolls or news.