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Essay alternatives

CheirCheir ✭✭ - StalwartMember Posts: 21 ✭✭ - Stalwart

So, there have been a few complaints about essays recently (and not-so-recently: going back as far as I remember, in fact!).  I'd like to share here a task that I came up with for the Dawnstriders, just under two years ago now (its first use was just after Shallam was destroyed - hence the references to Nomads rather than Dawnstriders).  The point of the task was that the novice would look at the Dawnstriders' code of ethics, and see whether they would fit with them.  The three questions at the end are intended to spark discussion, rather than be simply in the style of an interview.

Before we adopted this way of doing it (for all of three novices, I think), the task was to read some books and write an essay about the Dawnstriders' moral code, then have a simple Q&A session where they would be asked typical ethical questions, along the lines of: "A runaway cart is rolling along the road, heading for a trio of orphans.  Do you push it so that it hits a boulder instead, bearing in mind that there is an old man between the cart and the boulder."  These irritated me, because they were wholly unrealistic, and didn't take into account the fact that death in Achaea has little meaning.  I also argued that, if I can push the cart so that it hits the old man, I can push it half as far (or in the other direction), so that it careers off of the path and crashes into trees.

Since the Dawnstriders and Nomads are no more, and I no longer have an active character in Targossas at all, I don't think this reveals any IC information.  I'm posting this in the hope that it will inspire some people to come up with more interesting tasks - though I recognise that more involved tasks are by their very nature more time consuming than essays from an assessment point of view.

So, with apologies to @Tanris, @Mizik, @Earionduil, @Sohl@Xenomorph, @Lukis, and the various groups which are maligned within this task, here it is.  It's from the point of view of the "assessor", and so has a few performance notes - I'm afraid I couldn't get hold of a log from the novice's perspective. 


set voice CLEAR


say *solemnly Greetings, Strider.  You are here today to undertake your trial of Ethics.  This will allow us to assess whether you are prepared to make difficult decisions under pressure.


say In addition, this trial will allow you to consider whether you are prepared to follow the line of morality proscribed by the House.


say You may at times be called upon to make a decision.  Here, you may speak or act - either will be acceptable.  Bear in mind, however, that time is of the essence.  Do not feel that you need to explain your decisions: ample time will be given for that later.


em reaches into his sack, and takes out a small pinch of dust, a metal bowl with a small hole in the bottom, and a horn.


em takes a bucket from his sack, and empties a couple of vials of water into it, until it is full to the brim.


say This will act as a timer throughout your Trial.


em places the metal bowl carefully in the bucket so that it floats on the water.


conjure illusion As you watch, water begins to flow into the bowl, causing it to start to sink.


say The bowl takes roughly thirty seconds to fill fully.  When it does so, it will hit the bottom of the bucket.  You will hear this sound throughout your Trial.


conjure illusion A distinctive "Thunk" can be heard as the bowl hits the bottom of the bucket.  


em reaches into the bucket and lifts out the bowl, careful not to spill any water. ++ Wordlessly, 


say Are you ready to begin??


em places the dust into the horn and brings it to his lips.  Angling the horn upwards, he blows into it hard.


conjure illusion As a piercing note rings through the room, a cloud of dust billows from the upturned end of the horn and quickly rises to the ceiling.


conjure illusion The dust settles soon fills the room, dimming the light from the window.


conjure illusion As the room darkens, your eyelids begin to feel heavy.  You struggle to keep them open, before eventually succumbing to their leaden weight.


conjure illusion You open your eyes to find yourself in the Pash Valley.  In front of you stand Tanris, Mizik, Earionduil and Sohl.  Behind you, two orphans cower in fright.


conjure illusion Leering at you, Tanris pronounces, "We have defeated you, Nomad coward, and we could slay you where you stand."


conjure illusion He continues, "Doubtless, though, you would fight on, and there is the risk of damaging those orphans.  Their pineal glands are not yet... ripe."


conjure illusion A cruel glint in his eye, Tanris looks over the three of you.  "You may choose one of the orphans: run home to your camp on New Hope with him."


conjure illusion "Or," he continues. "You can fight us, and we will slay the three of you where you stand."


conjure illusion "I will give you two minutes to decide, starting now.  What will it be, Nomad?"


~~


[after 30 seconds]


conjure illusion A distinctive "Thunk" sounds in your head.


[after 1 minute]


conjure illusion The very air around you seems to ripple, as a distinctive "Thunk" reverberates through the surroundings.


conjure illusion Advancing on you, Tanris warns, "You are running out of time, Nomad..."


[after 90 seconds]


conjure illusion The ground seems to shake beneath you, and you stumble as a distinctive "Thunk" thunders around you.


[after two minutes]


conjure illusion As a distinctive "Thunk" threatens to deafen you, the very fabric of the illusion around you shatters in a blinding light.


[after verbal answer]


conjure illusion As you speak the words, the illusion around you shatters in a blinding light.


[after emote answer]


conjure illusion As you force your limbs into action, the illusion around you shatters in a blinding light.


~~


conjure illusion As your vision clears, you find yourself in the Headquarters of the Nomads.


em lifts the metal bowl from the bucket, turning to write a short note in his journal.


say Very well.  Are you ready to continue?


em lifts the horn to his lips and blows once again.  As a piercing note rings out, your eyes once more grow heavy.


conjure illusion Bound before you lies Xenomorph, a Maldaathi knight and Tyrannus of Mhaldor.  He is obviously unable to fight, nor summon the strength to stop his own heart.


conjure illusion Looking down, you see in your hand a dirk, glistening with a fresh application of prefarar.  


conjure illusion With your enemy bound like this, you are able to cause him far more pain than would normally be possible.


conjure illusion With enough pain, he could be induced to give up vital Mhaldorian secrets, aiding the Nomads in their fight against evil.


conjure illusion Looking to you, Xenomorph utters, "I will not plead for my life.  Grant me a clean death, as I would you."


conjure illusion In the distance, you hear the gutteral sound of the Mhaldorian language, obviously rescuers for their leader.  


conjure illusion You judge the Mhaldorians to be roughly two minutes away.  When they arrive, they will surely slay you, and free Xenomorph.


conjure illusion A shudder runs through your whole body, as you realise that you must make your decision now.


~~


[after 30 seconds]


conjure illusion A distinctive "Thunk" sounds in your head.


[after 1 minute]


conjure illusion The very air around you seems to ripple, as a distinctive "Thunk" reverberates through the surroundings.


conjure illusion Much louder now, you hear the Mhaldorians in the next room.


[after 90 seconds]


conjure illusion The ground seems to shake beneath you, and you stumble as a distinctive "Thunk" thunders around you.


[after two minutes]


conjure illusion As a distinctive "Thunk" threatens to deafen you, the very fabric of the illusion around you shatters in a blinding light.


[after verbal answer]


conjure illusion As you speak the words, the illusion around you shatters in a blinding light.


[after emote answer]


conjure illusion As you force your limbs into action, the illusion around you shatters in a blinding light.


~~


conjure illusion As your vision clears, you find yourself in the Headquarters of the Nomads.


em lifts the metal bowl from the bucket, turning to write a short note in his journal.


say The next will be your final vision.  Are you ready to continue?


em lifts the horn to his lips.  The now-familiar note rings out, and your eyes close for a final time.


conjure illusion Opening your eyes, you are greeted by the unwelcome visage of Theoren, the Mhaldorian executioner.


conjure illusion Gloating, Theoren cackles, "So, Nomads, you thought you could infiltrate my city?  Well, what shall I do with the pair of you?"


conjure illusion At his mention of a "pair", you lift your head to look around you.  In a corner of the Red Square, strapped into an open iron maiden, you see a battered Lukis.


conjure illusion He has obviously experienced the full brunt of Mhaldorian hospitality: his legs are broken, and he is barely conscious.


conjure illusion You reel as Theoren slaps you, hard.  "Look at me, Nomad!" he commands.  "And I'll give you a chance to save your life."


conjure illusion He continues, "Simple close the Maiden's door on your friend there, and I shall let you run home to your pack.


conjure illusion Theoren hauls you to your feet, and drags you across the Square.  Slapping Lukis back to consciousness, he cackles once again.


conjure illusion "Well, so-called 'Lord' - see how much loyalty you command?  Your underling here is about to be the instrument of your demise."


conjure illusion Lukis' eyes open wide in pain at the blow.  Drawing upon the last of his strength, he quickly rattles off the current guard positions in Mhaldor.


conjure illusion With this message, and Theoren's promise of freedom, you can get back to the raid and strike a vital blow on Mhaldor.


conjure illusion Oblivious to the importance of the coded message, Theoren cuffs you on the back of your head.


conjure illusion "Look your leader in the eyes, and put him to his death, or I will kill you both... once I've had a little more fun - but that will only take a day or so."


conjure illusion "Which will it be, Nomad?" Theoren demands.  "I give you two minutes to decide, starting now."


[after 30 seconds]


conjure illusion A distinctive "Thunk" sounds in your head.


[after 1 minute]


conjure illusion The very air around you seems to ripple, as a distinctive "Thunk" reverberates through the surroundings.


conjure illusion A frown on his face, Theoren grips your hair and pulls hard, "What's the problem, Nomad?"  


[after 90 seconds]


conjure illusion The ground seems to shake beneath you.  Only Theoren's grip on your hair keeps you upright as a distinctive "Thunk" thunders around you.


[after two minutes]


conjure illusion As a distinctive "Thunk" threatens to deafen you, the very fabric of the illusion around you shatters in a blinding light.


[after verbal answer]


conjure illusion As you speak the words, the illusion around you shatters in a blinding light.


[after emote answer]


conjure illusion As you force your limbs into action, the illusion around you shatters in a blinding light.


em makes a final note in his journal, before closing it and looking at you with uncharacteristically piercing eyes.


say So, Strider [name].  You have made three decisions here today.  Which was the easiest for you, and which the most difficult?


say Having had more time to think about your responses, are there any which you would change??


say Would you like to explain any decisions?


The point of this isn't to discuss how I'm clearly the best person ever, but rather to hopefully talk about alternatives to essays: I'd be interested in seeing examples from other Houses of tasks which were a bit more interesting - where they can be shared without breaking the IC/OOC barrier, that is.  

Whilst feedback is always appreciated, bear in mind that I'm in no position of authority at the moment, so have no opportunity to actually use this or anything like it.

HeroseHalosAlaskar
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Comments

  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    No system, in my eyes, trumps one-on-one time. Any alternative, honestly, ought to revolve around the instructor and the student finding a way to discuss the IC concepts without any danger of OOC leaking in at all, and make it an entirely character-building endeavour (for both of them). Houses should trust their officers enough to allow them to pass or fail students based on their evaluations, and instructors should be honest enough to warrant that trust. Whether you have conversations, exchange letters (in an academic kind of sense, I'm a fan of this M.O.), exchange allegorical stories, hold sermons, or write essays, it should always come back to student-and-teacher entity making progress towards a goal (usually, of course, the better understanding of the subject matter). The problem I see with essays as they are is that most Houses approach them as a 'fire and forget' requirement- you deal with it, when you're finished, we'll pay attention to you, in effect. For the record, I hate that attitude where ALL requirements are concerned; 'bash to level 50 and then come talk to us' or 'Figure out your curing and then come talk to us' are both just as lazy and unacceptable to me.

    Shirszae
  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,240 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    you're the best person ever

  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,128 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cool

    RIP Tanris :(

    image
    Cheir
  • TiselTisel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 60 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    Give students a framework. If a paragraph on each of 4 sections is all you want, let them know. If there is a reason for 3 paragraphs in each section, explain that. Have all of the teachers agree on the length too.

    Have a large list of topics (at least 10), and let them pick any two. This makes the essay important to them, not just regurgitating something that is written on a scroll, two library books and one denizen speech that everybody else uses.

    Don't make it a essay.  If your purpose is to explain something, then explain it to other students, and everyone learns

    Make it a competition. Reward the best essay each year, and publish them.

    Make essays/sermon/lectures/performances an important feature in your House/City if you are going to require written work. This shows the applicant the purpose for being a good writer.  


  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I've heard, over the last couple of days, of ridiculous impositions where essays are concerned. It's always either a long time ago, or something someone heard of. I've never heard of an essay in Achaea being imposed with college-style format (where in the hell do you get reasonable citations in Achaea from, anyways?), or being more than a couple paragraphs long, if that. Someone mentioned a 2000+ word essay from somewhere, but I can't imagine that's actually a thing, right? :/

    AiniaHalos
  • HellenHellen ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 165 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I was trying to publish a book an extremely long time ago, and the person in question asked for sources. I told them it was an original idea. He didn't believe me and recommended using APA style. The book in question never got put in the library. That's all I distinctly recall.

  • TiselTisel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 60 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Demonstrate a basic understanding of the Bloodsworn. You will also
    need to show that you have a basic knowledge of our enemies. You can do
    this either written or verbally, but you will need to know the following
    things:
     
    I. A brief history of the the Bloodsworn.
           
    II. What is Light?
       
    III. What is Righteouness?
      
    VI. What is Good?
       
    V. Who are the Enemies of Good? Give a brief explanation of why for
    each.
       
    If they only wanted one or two lines for each one, why ask for it to be written? The implication is that each section has at least a line or two, and probably a short paragraph or more. There are entire lectures on some of these areas. The last time I saw a question set up like this, it was part of a final exam for a college level class. They want a City history, three explanations on moral and religious issues, and a long form answer. I felt terrible submitting an answer with only 300 words, and really expected it to be returned.

    If they are going to ask for essays, put a limit on it, or an indication on what is expected. My idea of basic and your idea maybe totally different.
    Nim
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    It might be cool for a monk-like house to zen-ify their essays. Like, write what your house means in 9 +/- 2 words, with emphasis on being profound. Then it'd be easy to store all submissions in a help scroll. Probably would be best as a later req though (maybe to reach HR5), so they have time to develop the concepts a bit.

    (btw this is kind of like haiku, and probably the point of haiku - to limit writing about a concept to its very basic essence)

  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014
    Tisel said:
    Demonstrate a basic understanding of the Bloodsworn. You will also
    need to show that you have a basic knowledge of our enemies. You can do
    this either written or verbally, but you will need to know the following
    things:
     
    I. A brief history of the the Bloodsworn.
           
    II. What is Light?
       
    III. What is Righteouness?
      
    VI. What is Good?
       
    V. Who are the Enemies of Good? Give a brief explanation of why for
    each.
       
    If they only wanted one or two lines for each one, why ask for it to be written? The implication is that each section has at least a line or two, and probably a short paragraph or more. There are entire lectures on some of these areas. The last time I saw a question set up like this, it was part of a final exam for a college level class. They want a City history, three explanations on moral and religious issues, and a long form answer. I felt terrible submitting an answer with only 300 words, and really expected it to be returned.

    If they are going to ask for essays, put a limit on it, or an indication on what is expected. My idea of basic and your idea maybe totally different.

    Read the bolded please. They're not asking for an essay. They're also not asking for 300 words. Instead of assuming you're being asked a ton of stuff, why don't you clear things IC and have them explain the assignment? It -does- say basic. That means basic. Seriously, this is the kind of thing I'm trying to get at- people get whipped into a tizzy over an offence that I'm fairly sure hasn't been given, or received. 


    ETA: I know I sound like a jerk when I say it, but no one should bear the consequence of your failing to understand the assignment but yourself. No one, as far as I know, in any City, really has a problem with clarifying expectations on assignments. Just double-check next time, and I'm sure you'll find things a lot less painful.

    ShirszaeHalos
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    B-but I'm too shy to bother sempai! T_T H-he probably has m-more important things to do than notice me a-anyway...
    Shirszae
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    K. :/

  • TiselTisel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 60 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    @Anedhel‌ You asked for specific examples, I posted one. If you read my post, I tried to explain that not everyone sees things the way you do. That is why I asked for more explanation in assignments. I never said they asked for 300 words, I said that is what I submitted, and I considered it a bare-bones basic answer.

    I don't ask questions very often, because when I do, I am usually told to read the scrolls. Considering that there are over 100 people waiting to the the first level of tests in my City, the last thing I want to do is take time away from the leaders to answer my questions.

    SarapisAlaskarSiduriHalos
  • NylithNylith ✭✭ - Stalwart Beaverton, ORMember Posts: 24 ✭✭ - Stalwart

    Just to pile on. I had a character once who was a Sylvan and for his final essay he was allowed to pick a topic and then was to write a report.  So I picked one, wrote it, and my mentor approved it just to have the guild leaders tell me it wasnt forestal enough. Lucky my mentor went to battle for me and got me through. 

    All in all, essays are okay by me if they are simple (2-4) paragraphs and other options exist like performing our whatever. 

  • CarmellCarmell ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent Eastern WashingtonMember Posts: 473 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Tisel said:
    Demonstrate a basic understanding of the Bloodsworn. You will also
    need to show that you have a basic knowledge of our enemies. You can do
    this either written or verbally, but you will need to know the following
    things:
     
    I. A brief history of the the Bloodsworn.
           
    II. What is Light?
       
    III. What is Righteouness?
      
    VI. What is Good?
       
    V. Who are the Enemies of Good? Give a brief explanation of why for
    each.
       
    If they only wanted one or two lines for each one, why ask for it to be written? The implication is that each section has at least a line or two, and probably a short paragraph or more. There are entire lectures on some of these areas. The last time I saw a question set up like this, it was part of a final exam for a college level class. They want a City history, three explanations on moral and religious issues, and a long form answer. I felt terrible submitting an answer with only 300 words, and really expected it to be returned.

    If they are going to ask for essays, put a limit on it, or an indication on what is expected. My idea of basic and your idea maybe totally different.

    This particular test can be answered quickly while doing the assessment it is a part of.  You don't even have to do it written.  I'm not even sure when that got added.  There is a scroll in the city helps that actually answers all of these questions.  This particular part of the exam was put in place by me because it also passes as a review for another part of the city that you need to have done.

    Anedhel
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited August 2014
    Tisel said:

    @Anedhel‌ You asked for specific examples, I posted one. If you read my post, I tried to explain that not everyone sees things the way you do. That is why I asked for more explanation in assignments. I never said they asked for 300 words, I said that is what I submitted, and I considered it a bare-bones basic answer.

    I don't ask questions very often, because when I do, I am usually told to read the scrolls. Considering that there are over 100 people waiting to the the first level of tests in my City, the last thing I want to do is take time away from the leaders to answer my questions.

    Yikes. I really can't say what I'm going to say without sounding argumentative, so I apologize in advance. First thing I'd like to say is that it's wrong to blame the system for misunderstandings that are entirely on you. The scroll -says- it can be submitted verbally. That you took it to mean it was supposed to be written and massive is on you, not anyone else.

    The idea that I've been trying to get at is that in Achaea, everything should boil down to interaction. Assignments should -not- be piles of instructions for rote, mechanical recitation; if every scroll detailed, down to the Tee, what you had to do, what'd be the point? I don't think the intention was ever that you progress through City and House without having to interact with people. That'd take the people out of the equation, and the people are the most important thing.

    I really doubt there are 100 people waiting for the first level of tests in Targossas (I'm Targossian, and I'm in the Academy, so I think I'd know). Asking a question is a five-minute affair on the Academy's clan. I've -answered- questions more complicated than that in that channel in less time than five minutes, so I don't really buy your argument. Sorry. The people who are in the clan to deal with novices volunteered, and they're really genuinely very lovely people, so perhaps you shouldn't assume that people don't have the inclination or the time to help you out, because that's quite literally the job they've signed on for. I really do apologize for the antagonistic tone, but pretty much everything about this situation's on you.


    ETA: Carmell's right. There's a scroll with the answers written down somewhere. No one's asked for an essay here.

    HavynHalos
  • TiselTisel ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 60 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    This thread was meant to be an discussion on alternatives. I apologize for taking it off course.

    I am a horrible person who does not appreciate all of the wonderful people in the game, and a lousy role-player, and I am totally incapable of understanding basic instructions.I won't be bothering you any further.


    ShirszaeNaahHalos
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,797 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Poor guy. You should have been gentler on him. Now you've scared him back to Tumblr.

    ShirszaePraxidesAnedhelHalos
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff

    @Alaskar I agree with basically everything you wrote.

    TharvisSiduri
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited August 2014

    Sigh. Everything I've said, except for that particular instance where I really do believe the failure was on the part of this one particular person who was unable/unwilling to help themselves, is that where requirements fail, it's not usually the requirement's fault, it's the officers' fault. City or House, it doesn't matter. It -is- our failing when we cannot draw people in enough to -want- to do things (although I'll be the first to say there are surely some people who won't like what's asked of them, no matter what it is).


    Tisel's specific case, this is exactly what I'm getting at; experienced players need to be better at creating an environment in which people want to participate. This goes for everything, not -just- written assignments. Nevertheless, this whole 'newbies are being assigned essays' stance people seem to be taking a hard line on, honestly, doesn't seem to exist in my eyes. No one, in a week of discussing this, has -actually- come up with a -real- example of a newbie being assigned an essay. 


    ETA: Regarding a 'poor attitude'- it's cheap to talk. If I am harsh in my wording, it's because I'd prefer to offer constructive criticism than blow smoke up someone's ass. In this case, Tisel made a mistake. I can't do anything more than point out the mistake and offer a way to rectify it. If I am critical, I am as equally willing, when I'm playing the game, to go out of my way to get people over the hurdles I'm responsible for putting in their way. You yourself should know this- we argued about requirements, when you didn't like being asked to go through the same process all other applicants to the Dawnblade were asked to go through- didn't I ask, day in and day out, if you needed help with anything? It's easy to simply get cranky at someone pointing something out, but where and when I do, I absolutely can say, without any hesitation, that I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, in helping others out.

    ShirszaePraxidesKeiHalos
  • AlaskarAlaskar ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 393 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I'll certainly admit that I admire the effort you put into novices,  especially in trying to make them really enjoy lore and history.  I would never try to downplay the time and energy you give to the novice program. We're in agreement that the players could do more to make the tasks enjoyable, and I also agree that some people won't like anything we ask of them.

     In fact, my only real criticism of you would be that you often lack tact when approaching complaints by others when it concerns something you've done or helped do. Often we forget that, even with the best interests in mind, a harsh tone will ruin whatever you say.

    As the Targ houses are really pioneering this new system, however, it may not be a bad idea to have a more flexible system of updating requirements. I mean, if things aren't being received well by novices, there's no reason not to go ahead and change them. It removes the pressure on professors to exert additional energy in making something tolerable and allows them to instead focus on bettering an already fun task. 

    Basically, what I'm getting at is, if there is an obvious downside to leaving things the way they are (potentially turning novices away and requiring additional effort from professors) but no down side to possibly changing a few things or requirements, then why not do it? We know essay's turn people off. For whatever reason, it happens. Just having it in there is painful to some. An example, in the Bahein, instead of listing topics thesis-style, we could ask that they be familiar with CHELP FOUNDATION and be ready to be interviewed on the subject matter contained therein. 


  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Alaskar said:

    The admin have taken huge steps to make the game as novice-friendly as possible, and I love it. Now the onus is on us to really embrace the newer players and help the game grow.

    I'd sort of disagree with this statement, since the onus remains on the admins and will always remain on the admins to maintain the health of the playerbase. It's great if you want to be this awesome productive player that helps out all the newbies, but to the player, it's a game, why take on undesired responsibilities?

    Jacen
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,818 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    If it was up to the Admin to do everything, they wouldn't let us lead cities and houses. Because we are invested with that power, we have a responsibility to maintain their health. That's the price you pay for having player-run orgs; players have to run them responsibly. Yes, sometimes that's a chore, but it's what makes Achaea deeper and more interesting than other games on the market.

    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aerek said:

    If it was up to the Admin to do everything, they wouldn't let us lead cities and houses. Because we are invested with that power, we have a responsibility to maintain their health. That's the price you pay for having player-run orgs; players have to run them responsibly. Yes, sometimes that's a chore, but it's what makes Achaea deeper and more interesting than other games on the market.

    You're somewhat misunderstanding me.

    It's up to the admins to make sure everything gets done. They do this by letting players take on some of that responsibility, and even have cleverly made that a selling point, but it's not as though the admins are suddenly relieved of it.

    Furthermore, they have more power than a typical player does to make their game approachable. They can code things. They can force major changes (like the house renaissance!). Etc.

  • StunereeStuneree ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 221 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I hope to not get bombarded with hate for this, but:

    I want everyone to consider the possibility that some people simply do not care about the lore in this game. Even if it is really cool, player/divine made, and extremely abundant... Some people have absolutely no interest.

    This could be a comment within the house renaissance thread as well: Maybe split houses between lore-based and non-lore-based a bit... Or at least, more than they might already be.

    Some people just have no interest in lore, and shouldn't be forced into the interest (because that will drive them away faster than anything else). 



    MathonwyHasar
  • AlaskarAlaskar ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 393 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Eh, that may be really approaching a line that keeps Achaea different from other games.  We can probably all agree that if you don't value at least a little RP then Achaea may be the wrong place for you. Not referencing anyone in particular,  just saying. And I could be wrong. 



  • StunereeStuneree ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 221 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited August 2014

    @Alaskar‌ @Sarapis‌ ;

    I definitely don't mean that Achaea should be designed for those who aren't into lore. What I'm pointing out is that there are different degrees of roleplayers. Some people are simply in the game to merchant, some to bash non-stop... And some of that relies almost entirely on your own character without the need to preach any Gods or understand the past events.

    The thing is, Achaea's lore can't be ignored or disposed of because it's literally built by the people who play it, (therefore it's extremely precious to the game and its future). But that doesn't mean people should be forced to read over a novel-worth of backstory so they can write about their views on it.

    Basically what I'm saying is: Roleplay should be 100% enforced, but understanding all lore shouldn't (unless you put yourself into a situation where it is clearly required; i.e. Congregation).

    This is why I mentioned that some houses should make it clear that they revolve more around lore after the changes. "Genre Housing" if you will. This could greatly slow down the whole "I spent four straight hours helping this novice, and then they ended up leaving and never to be heard of again", because people will have a better understanding of what they're getting into.

    I knew there wouldn't be a way of explaining that not everyone loves lore, without pissing lore-lovers off. But it should be more of a, "understand the background, but you don't need to understand what happened on the 12th of Sarapin, 365 AF, three quarters through the day."... UNLESS YOU WANT TO.

    tl;dr - A rudimentary understanding of the game's story should be enforced, but a Ph.D in it should not be.


    P.S.: I love Achaea's lore, and am simply trying to be unbiased.



    MathonwyKerria
  • AlaskarAlaskar ✭✭✭ - Distinguished Member Posts: 393 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I understand what you're saying, and agree. Your initial statement seemed to imply that some people should be able to just blow off lore and game to game, a la WoW. But I do believe everyone should have a basic understanding of lore.


    StunereeMathonwy
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