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If you don't want to RP, at least don't get in the way of those that do.

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  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Proper RP needn't be -rewarded-. You don't reward a person for drinking water properly when they are thirsty. When you are playing Achaea, for the bulk of your outward character interactions, you are roleplaying.

    I am all for a system where people who are strong and consistent roleplayers get noticed so as to facilitate greater immersion for players who are seeking that kind of crowd. I am not for rewarding people for doing what they are supposed to be doing - I'd much rather reward the people who are absolutely exceptional as characters, the people who leave lasting impressions upon Achaea and the cultures within it.

    That system already exists, by the by. I'll let you figure out what it is.

    MelodieShirszaeEilona
  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    @Jacen What @Bluef said. As for the PK issue, I would not have mentioned it, if Athelas was not a victim of it. The first time it happened, I did the whole ISSUE thing, and was horribly shocked when the admin found in favour of the PK'er. The second time, I simply let it be. By the third time it happened I was convinced that Achaea is now open PK all over, and had to get clarification that the Black Forest is in fact, not an open PK.

    Sorry @Jacen, I strongly disagree, administrators do not take ISSUES regarding PK without RP reason seriously. They might have at some point, but they surely no longer do.

    BluefShirszaeEilona
  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    @Daeir Drinking water properly, is hardly RP.

    Take a walk into some libraries in Achaea. I'm sure you'll find something written by Athelas in a few of them. During his time on Achaea, he wrote three books. One has even been "lost" and another was only partially recovered after Journals became decaying items.

    He has actually had letters from persons who would normally consider him an enemy, thanking him for the work in the first book.

    Among Druidic students, Athelas has been sought and singled out, on multiple occasions, as a philosopher and authority on Neutrality. Those occasions where this happens, are tremendously rewarding for me. As difficult as it is, I do my absolute best to play him as the wise old man he has become... Yes, it is surprisingly difficult to play that kind of character, when you don't have a script to work with. So I really have to be on my toes when he is in the presence of others.

    When I get it right though, it makes for truly wonderful RP, and I have to admit that you are right, they are rewarding in and of themselves and extra reward is not necessary.

    It would just be really nice if more people did that kind of thing. Unfortunately, the only way to get that out of more people, is to provide a mechanism of reward for such things.

    Daeir said:
    That system already exists, by the by. I'll let you figure out what it is.

    Please do tell, I'm obviously missing something.

    HasarBluefShirszae
  • HasarHasar Member Posts: 795 @ - Epic Achaean

    Can we nuke this thread already pls.


    HarmoniaEilonaSherazad
  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    @Hasar No one is forcing you to read this thread. If you aren't interested, or find it boring, ignore it.

    Bluef
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I don't know man, if you've been jumped outside of your city 3 times without any instigation from you, then there's a problem. The thing is, the onus is on you to report it.  You might lose the first issue, because one death isn't a huge deal, but if it's a repetitive thing, then you should make the admin aware of it.

    And again, as far as rewards: PvP is an XP sink. You have to maintain something like a 3:2 K/D ratio to come out even, or something like that, without including starburst. The reward for PvP is PvP. Its an act you engage in because you enjoy it! And while killing your enemies does tend to land you some city/house favors, the RP tends to build you a reputation, which lands you in leadership positions in your House and city.

    Not that PvP doesn't get you a reputation, but its certainly not the same.

    image
    Alaskar
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 4,951 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Athelas said:
    @Daeir Drinking water properly, is hardly RP.

    Take a walk into some libraries in Achaea. I'm sure you'll find something written by Athelas in a few of them. During his time on Achaea, he wrote three books. One has even been "lost" and another was only partially recovered after Journals became decaying items.

    He has actually had letters from persons who would normally consider him an enemy, thanking him for the work in the first book.

    Among Druidic students, Athelas has been sought and singled out, on multiple occasions, as a philosopher and authority on Neutrality. Those occasions where this happens, are tremendously rewarding for me. As difficult as it is, I do my absolute best to play him as the wise old man he has become... Yes, it is surprisingly difficult to play that kind of character, when you don't have a script to work with. So I really have to be on my toes when he is in the presence of others.

    When I get it right though, it makes for truly wonderful RP, and I have to admit that you are right, they are rewarding in and of themselves and extra reward is not necessary.

    It would just be really nice if more people did that kind of thing. Unfortunately, the only way to get that out of more people, is to provide a mechanism of reward for such things.

    Daeir said:
    That system already exists, by the by. I'll let you figure out what it is.

    Please do tell, I'm obviously missing something.

    I'm a little confused. I am a dragon, and have very recently (within the last real year) had my character embrace combat. That said, a majority of my motivation to Melodie has always been roleplay, and always will be, because the social aspect of Achaea is what keeps me playing, despite... a lot of things.

    I know a lot of people who roleplay, even the die-hard combatants. Sure maybe it's not the deepest roleplay always, but everyone roleplays differently, which is why Achaea can be so vastly interesting - you run into a lot of different styles. On top of that, people are always improving and becoming better at it. Rangor is a great example - most people outside of Eleusis, save a few, would only think of him for his combat, but he's actually very engaging to speak with and debate topics on. Penwize, one of the absolute best-known bashers in Achaea, used to sit with me for 3-6 hours before I joined Eleusis, just so we could debate all the various issues I had understanding Nature and how it worked to fit in with Melodie. Ellodin is another vast resource of information to tap into that few bother to, which is a real shame... Ellodin probably has one of the most well-rounded educations in Eleusis.

    Perhaps you're just looking in the wrong places. I think if you try to reach out, instead of expecting to be reached out to, you'll find a much richer experience. Eleusis (and this is to not even mention the other cities, we're just talking about the city we happen to share) is full of people with a lot of old stories and experiences, and I'm sure Athelas is no exception.

    Tl;dr, I bet if you look around, you'll find more than you think is there!

    "You have had an extraordinary adventure, my dear. Extraordinary! One that few people could ever imagine. Treasure it. Keep it safe and secure, tucked away in some special place in your heart. 

    But... don't spend the rest of your days chasing a ghost."
    AlrenaShirszaeEilonaHalos
  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    @Jacen If it was three times by the same individual I would have done as you say, but it was actually three times, by three different characters. Twice in the Black Forest where Athelas's grove is, and once in Forestwatch while bringing down the Buckawn King, the offender waited until Athelas was at half health before attacking. All this happened within an in-game year, right after he managed to trans all skills but Riding. It honestly seemed that the moment he gained skills, he became a target for PK.

    @Melodie I honestly do not expect others to reach towards me for RP. I do try to generate it myself and often get a bit out of some individuals; Ever notice how often Athelas runs around handing out Harmony without being asked? Or how he'll hang around asking questions or commenting on things. Did you note how he brought his concerns for Jallah (a denizen) into the discussion on the renaissance? Or more recently, how he attempted to engage Yudhi in conversation? He does not miss a ritual or meeting if he is in the realm and knows of it. Right now, one of my favourite quick 'n easy ways of generating RP, is to comment on someone's fashion. It's such an easy and often overlooked RP handle, yet I've seen even that fail.

    Come to think of it, there is one thing I have not considered!

    Again, I am presenting my viewpoint, and I could be horribly wrong here. But all this could just as easily be explained, by the fact that I'm simply in the wrong timezone. Athelas happens to be in the realm when few others are. The answer to all this could really be as simple, as getting more people from the GMT +2 hour timezone, to play Achaea.

  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    The OP and subsequent follow-up makes me wish the RP flag system that @Sarapis had previously discussed implementing was already live. My only worry is that people wouldn't roleplay their transition into contacting people with notes on the system, but overall I think even the lack of that would be  made up for in the increased capacity to be "reached out to" instead of always being the one having to do the reaching, which can result in situations exactly like the one in the OP. 

    @Athelas the PK system is set up so that you're encouraged to seek IC resolution for attacks/deaths first and foremost. Only when attacks seem to stray from the guidelines should people really Issue because it is a form of OOC intervention. Sadly though, the game's culture IMO has started to embrace an "Issue first" ideology. I think that perhaps some of this is an attempt to hammer the rules of PK once more into more fixed determinants by which players can base their PvP interactions, but by in large my personal experience with it has been simple: Very immature players making incredibly frivolous claims that force me to break immersion to formulate responses. 

    Whoever this @Athelas is, I am going to look him up IC. He sounds like an interesting guy -- so @Athelas if you find Bluef standing next to you adjusting her obeah belt or counting the shrunken heads on her necklace, feel free to comment on her fashion to strike something up! :smile: 

  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,170 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Athelas said:

    @Tahquil It seems I'm not the only one that's overly sensitive. B)

    Also, please read my statement again:  "where Athelas is the only one that's not a Dragon."


    Rofl. Sorry I wasn't really pay that much attention to you or what I was writing and didn't put the words in the right order. Here, let me clarify "The reason you're probably the only non-dragon in a room of 5 people is you've been playing for a few months, not a few years."


    There you go. Oh, and that thing about Aetolia, That was legit advice.

  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    @Tahquil‌ ; B) I'll take a look into Aetolia.

  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I'd just like to say that the only way to bring out the better qualities of storytelling in others is not admin-offered rewards for it, but rather, it's easier to accomplish it by having players give each other the opportunity and space to explore that kind of thing. In this case, it really is a 'you reap what you sow' situation, and being overly harsh and cutting people out because of a lapse of strict adherence to what you perceive as the in-game rules/norms tends to get you excluded from things, rather than helping the situation. I've had wonderful scenes with people whom I've seen speak blatantly OOCly; like any interaction with other people, just assume that whomever offended you had a relaxed moment, and seek them out in a different context, see if it goes better, instead of getting upset and metaphorically taking your ball with you. The only person you really hurt by excluding yourself from others' company is you, after all.

    ShirszaeBluef
  • MithridatesMithridates Member Posts: 1,956 @ - Epic Achaean

    I'm going to shit all over everyone's RP forever now. 

    HarmoniaPraxides
  • StunereeStuneree Member Posts: 221 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I've only been here for a couple of months, but I've actually not seen really any of the problems that are being mentioned. (Not to dismiss the fact that they exist, I just haven't seen them).

    The only time I see people being really greasy with their speech is day-old players really, most of which you can tell won't last longer than their first day anyway. I mean people who will never use question marks, type "okay" as "ok", and don't use apostrophes.

    Other than the new players I would speculate the opposite of this discussion... But I also might just phase people out who are breaking the character, if there is any at all.

    Also pretty much all of my time has been spent in Mhaldor and a bit of time in The Occultists, so I guess that probably has something to do with it.

    Either way, is there not a way to report people who are continuously acting OOC? I typically just remind people nicely, (newer than me players) that roleplaying is enforced at all times, especially in certain places. If an older player (or hardcore Dragon-in-two-weeks player) was being just a general douchebag with their lack of a fourth wall, could you not just report them?



  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Ellodin said:

    i didn't carefully read most of this thread, but i feel like the basis for this thread has been a straw man.

    @Ellodin Yea, that's about as far as I got with your comment. If you aren't going to read the thread, why comment on it? Aside from that, this is not a rant @Ellodin. I started it as a request and now it's turned into an open discussion on our various experiences. It is clear that there are those that have good RP experiences on a regular basis, and those who have bad ones or experience no RP at all. With any amount of luck, this thread could lead people stuck in the last two situations, to better RP experiences.

    @Anedhel Totally agreed, but having your RP destroyed by a supposedly experienced player is more than just a bummer. I would not be petty about it though, that is why I started this thread, to bring things like this to the fore and make those who are not interested in RP, aware of what they are doing to those who are.

    @Stuneree Interesting idea there, on reporting continued OOC behaviour. I do suspect it is as open to abuse, as reporting good RP is though.


    Eilona
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ellodin's not wrong, for what it's worth.

    EilonaAlcinaeSherazad
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Athelas said:
    Ellodin said:

    i didn't carefully read most of this thread, but i feel like the basis for this thread has been a straw man.

    @Ellodin Yea, that's about as far as I got with your comment. If you aren't going to read the thread, why comment on it? Aside from that, this is not a rant @Ellodin. I started it as a request and now it's turned into an open discussion on our various experiences. It is clear that there are those that have good RP experiences on a regular basis, and those who have bad ones or experience no RP at all. With any amount of luck, this thread could lead people stuck in the last two situations, to better RP experiences.

    @Anedhel Totally agreed, but having your RP destroyed by a supposedly experienced player is more than just a bummer. I would not be petty about it though, that is why I started this thread, to bring things like this to the fore and make those who are not interested in RP, aware of what they are doing to those who are.

    @Stuneree Interesting idea there, on reporting continued OOC behaviour. I do suspect it is as open to abuse, as reporting good RP is though.


    Eh. Most of the people who'll reply to this kind of thing on the forums aren't the kind of people you'd have a problem with, so forgive us more jaded Achaeans who see this sort of thing as a bit petty. The people who could potentially be a negative presence in your game-time are the people you should be addressing this with; hence my suggestion of seeking them out and seeing if you can find common ground; either they -were- just being goofy and lax, and it slipped into OOC unconsciously, in which case further interaction will likely be better, or they aren't interested in particularly strict adherence to what you perceive as proper RP parameters, in which case, the ball's in your court to convince them to come around to your point of view. This kind of thread isn't really good for anything, I'm afraid.

    YaeDaeirEilona
  • AthelasAthelas Cape Town South AfricaMember Posts: 277 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Daeir said:
    Ellodin's not wrong, for what it's worth.

    I never said he was. I'm as open to his criticism as I am to yours. I consider myself fortunate, that there has been very few combative sorts on this thread. If you take the time to read my previous posts on this thread, I think you'll find that I've stated that I could very well be wrong, several times.

    @Anedhel Totally agreed once again.


    As I said before, I suspect that much of my experience is due to the fact, that I'm not playing when the majority of player generated RP is happening. I've been putting that to the test over the last two days and have found a marked improvement in both number of RP encounters and the quality of those encounters. An incredible uptake happens around GMT 23h00 which is around 01h00 where I am. Those few times I manage to be here at GMT 00h00 has led me to believe that the peak of player interactions is around GMT 00h00-02h00. Which basically puts me out of the running, I simply can't be playing between 1 and 3am during the week. My job pays for credits after all :)

    So, it seems I'll have to launch a recruitment drive to get more people from my time zone into Achaea.

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