Resolved: Hashan should formally embrace Darkness

Araeus

Hello All. I am not an expert on Hashan by any means, but I have heard many say that Hashan has been floundering for a long time. The consensus seems to be that it is not so much a leadership problem as a purpose problem. Hashan was begun as an independent unaligned city. It basically seems to be neutral-Dark. I would like to see Hashan use the housing rennaisance as an opportunity to formally align with Darkness.  One of the reasons that my home city of Targossas works so well, is that we are united in faith, and in purpose, in service to Good. Our houses, established under the new paradigm, all reflect this. I would like to see Hashan unite behind Darkness in a similar way.  Any thoughts on this?

Strata

I think it's a great idea and might provide a foundation for a new Hashan... until all the metagamy backstabbers screw it right back up.

Cooper

The houses have been aligned with darkness for hundreds of years. More fun for people to think that isn't true.

Nakari

I have no good standing to really have a meaningful opinion on this, but the debate wording makes me happy.

Jules

As an outsider, I enjoy Hashan as a somewhat dirty northern city with good shopping, and a crumbling, but tenacious contingent of academics (observatory, academy), that is open to all visitors with coin and curiosity.  There's something there.

Siduri

@Araeus : You are right, but there is one problem and it stems from the very structure of Lord Twilight's Order. While it does not encourage internal backstabbing, and still sends out a call for 'community' among Darkwalkers, it encourages individuality to a level that seems antithetical to the very concept of united faith. 'Seek your own truth, even if it conflicts with that of others' does not make for a strong cohesion. Add to this the anonymous nature of the pre-Order clan (are they still doing this?), and it can get confusing.

That, and the problem of the eternally 'neutral' outcries will pose problem. We had that in Shallam, and we needed to -nuke- the City in order to get a fresh start. Hashan is stuck with a very Cyrenian-like population, and it'll take something big to force them in Cyrene if they don't want to follow.

Possible, and I hope it will be done, but it'll be a long road to follow.

Eiredhel

Hashan should not be dedicated and focused on a singular Divine, or our purpose no longer exists the second the Divine goes dormant. 

Darkness is not the same as Good or Evil, where the enemy and goals are clear cut. Darkness is highly focused on being hard to understand and being hard to find unless you are in the know. If you are in the know, then it is your job to keep others out of the know. Will that change? Maybe. 

As it stands, Darkness and its goals are focused on Twilight's Great Works, which, as far as I know, are not things that players should be able to decide on a whim, and therefore any faction focused on Darkness would need an active Divine to lead it. That would put way to much pressure admin wise to dictate every little thing going on in Hashan which with all the changes coming up is entirely not feasible.

It's a good idea in theory, but it would not be practical.

Blujixapug

Throwing around ideas is fun. But pursuing consensus on the forums is not the way to make this happen. If you were seriously planning to pursue this goal, I would suggest that discussing it on the forums is counterproductive, for the same reason that RL political campaign planners and PR spin doctors don't discuss their strategies with the public. It's a controversial plan, and you want to play your cards close to your chest.

Hashan will not "formally embrace Darkness" or "unite behind Darkness". If, as you say, the city suffers from infighting and schisms, then that conflicts with them unanimously accepting a new theme. People will refuse, rebel, do what they can to ruin your plans, turn others against you, and champion their own (bad) competing ideas. It needs to be implemented from the top down by admin figures and leaders, in a deft and cunning way so that people accept it, and don't perceive it as being forced upon them, but also are never presented with a choice to reject it.

Darkness specifically is not a good banner, because Twilight is the God of Darkness. Making Hashan the City of Darkness ties the city very closely to Twilight, to the exclusion of other gods. It means the city will fall into a rut any time the Twilight role goes dormant. Adjusting your branding slightly, to a different word or theme, would avoid this overlap with Twilight.

Mathonwy

From an IC perspective, formally embracing Darkness is the least Darkness-y thing Hashan could do.

#realtalk

Wei

Fortunately, Hashan has three Divines we can "formally embrace." Hopefully, at least one of them will be active.

Basically, I'm saying we shouldn't become a city of Darkness per se, but instead further embrace being the City of Night, of which Darkness is only one factor.

Eiredhel

Wei said:

Fortunately, Hashan has three Divines we can "formally embrace." Hopefully, at least one of them will be active.

That's only if there was a Triad, which as of now and for the foreseeable future, there is not. It is just something of a historical moniker that Hashani celebrate as it was a very big part of our culture. Often times it does get confused with something that is presently applicable, which it is not. Which is where a lot of the confusion comes from. So yes, all three should be respected for their contributions, but that has very little to do with who is and isn't formally embraceable. 

The only Divine that can't lead Hashan no matter what, would be Bloodsworn. Evil could, depending on the playerbase, though I really hope it won't. Nature could, though Nature wouldn't because they'd want to wipe Hashan off the face of the map. Thoth can't due to Thoth x Twilight relations. Every other Divine in the game can. Which again falls to where a lot of the purpose issues come from. 

It's in the hands of the Administration and city leadership to come up with a purpose or focus, however, it is easier said than done. People just need to let the admins work, negotiate, and look at the situation as the focus of Hashan could drastically change the balance of the game. No, it's not because of how important Hashan is, but it is heavily related to how Hashan's relations will alter from here on out. 

The only thing I can speculate on is that Hashan's focus/purpose will neither be pro-creation or anti-creation. It won't be pro-Good, it won't be pro-Evil, and it won't be neutral. It'll probably end up being something unexpected, but I'm sure the administrators are taking a long hard look at how to move forward, and have been for a long time. 

Synbios

I like Hashan because of the House of Delights. And Kaethryn.

#yesiampervertedbyhumanstandards

#justeldritchthings

Twilight

Let me provide some clarity on a few issues that I've seen mentioned in this thread and others.

First, and as has been previously mentioned, the Triad is no more. There are clear reasons why the historical alliance faltered, but I will leave that for in-game discussions.

Second, there is something to be said for player-led initiatives. It is an important component, and one of the most rewarding, in this game. From an administration standpoint, there is certainly a desire to strengthen the Dark/Moon faction and push it forward; however, that requires a contingent of players willing to assist and move in that direction. Plenty of tools will be provided, and have been given already, to assist in those endeavors. But this is a player's game, and it will be up to the players to help forge the faction.

Third, the frustrations of what defines Hashan are noted, but the theme is an excellent one and provides enough of a springboard for the players to further the factional identity. What is Hashan? It is the City of the Night. What does that entail? It is a city of shadows, mystics, and mystery. A city dedicated to the night, and the encompassing ideals of the divine within the former Triad. It requires, perhaps, a bit more work than the one-word overarching missions of others cities, such as "Evil" or "Nature", but there is enough to carve an identity and place among the other cities.

And, of course, remember that there is plenty of administration support moving forward. I (and by extension, @Ourania and @Valnurana) will also ensure that I do my best to help make it as interesting and fun of a city as possible.

Asmodron

Twilight said:

@Twilight talked in his suave and classy way.

Omg. It's Twilight!!

#insert_fangirl_scream.

Ourania

Darkness has spoken, sad pictures have happened. The moon ends it.