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Alchemist, Shaman, Etc.

ElcryionElcryion Member Posts: 9

I've been playing Achaea for a week or so on different characters, trying to decide on a final one. So far, Alchemist and Shaman appealed to me the most -- although I'll admit I've only very lightly tested the classes.

How do the two classes fare, in a) bashing, b) 1v1 PvP, and c) group PvP?

Comments

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2014

    Shaman is one of the best bashing classes, having very high damage output, but it comes at the cost of high willpower drain. For maximum bashing ability you'll want to learn up to swiftcurse in curses, berkana in runelore, and trans philosophy, but you can do just fine with only bleed in curses and algiz in runelore (that's easy enough to reach almost right away).

    Alchemist is fine for bashing, their offense is nothing amazing and a bit slow for my taste, but they have a nice critical bonus to help with that, and plenty of defensive bonuses to make staying alive much easier. Endurance and willpower aren't a problem, you can pretty much bash indefinitely without running out. Being able to instantly refill your vials in the middle of bashing is also very convenient. Edit: I forgot to add that for maximum potential you'll want to learn to astronomy in alchemy and trans transmutation, but you can do fine with just sulphur in alchemy and nothing else (again something you can reach as a newbie).

    I don't really fight so I can't say much about how they are in PvP, but I can say that alchemist isn't too great in group combat. They're not useless or anything, but the only thing they offer during a raid that would make someone think "I wish we had an alchemist right now" is resurrection. Shamans are more useful there, having a ranged attack (especially helpful if you're still inexperienced and can't deal with the spam of group melee) and totems which can be pretty important.

    ElcryionJhaeliAchimrst
  • NellaundraNellaundra Member Posts: 1,556 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2014
    Alchemists recently got a massive rework that actually made them viable and fun as all hell in 1v1 at least, so there's that. Shamans are all about fashion fashion fashion fashion in 1v1 which is boring as shit.

    image
    Ernam
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Shamans also have some big changes coming, presumably in the near future, but there's not much information about what those changes will be or when they'll happen (as far as I know).

  • ZiiZii Member Posts: 616 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited May 2014

    Combat: Shaman then Alchemist

    Utility: Alchemist then Shaman

    Both are pretty good.

    *Animated Signature*

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I just realised I forgot to mention that tradeskills are going to be separated from class before too long, anyone will be able to learn transmutation (or some modified version of it) and alchemists will get a new skill to replace it. So if transmutation is part of your decision, it won't be part of the alchemist class for too much longer.

    That also means that both classes have large changes on the way, so there's really no way to tell how the classes will compare a few months from now (I doubt bashing will change too much though).

  • ZiiZii Member Posts: 616 @ - Epic Achaean
    ^What she said.  I forgot about that.

    Alchemist combat is still interesting.  It makes people cry.

    *Animated Signature*

  • TerraTerra Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    Depends on your style. Shaman bashing is definitely better. In group combat, alchemist has resurrection, displace (which summons enemies in the area into your room), and homunculus torso (which keeps your target from leaving the room so your group can kill the person). Shaman has thurisaz (a ranged attack) and totem (which makes every enemy who walks into your room get afflicted).

    In 1v1, the styles are very different in my opinion. Alchemist requires momentum. You have to keep attacking your opponent non-stop for a while, and then you can kill them. Shaman does not require momentum. You can fashion a doll as slowly as you want and still use the fashions all at once later to kill. You can also tumble over stonewalls and run through nairat runes to survive pretty easily while fashioning your doll. For that reason, overall, I'd say shaman is probably better. However, the one advantage of alchemist is that it can kill faster than shaman. Assuming your target doesn't manage to hinder you effectively (since alchemist requires momentum), alchemist can achieve its kill setups faster than shaman.

  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Alchemist definitely better 1v1.. not sure where this misconception coming from
    image
    ErnamAchimrst
  • ZiiZii Member Posts: 616 @ - Epic Achaean
    Jhui said:
    Alchemist definitely better 1v1.. not sure where this misconception coming from

    Its still too new to get attached to how it functions.

    *Animated Signature*

  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    @zii for now, that's one of its biggest advantages.

    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
        Zii
      1. BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        edited June 2014
        Sena said:

        Shamans also have some big changes coming, presumably in the near future, but there's not much information about what those changes will be or when they'll happen (as far as I know).

        Oh? I'd not heard of any big changes coming to shaman in the immediate future. I'd heard trade skills were on the way, but I thought Tecton had already said that runelore wouldn't be impacted there.

        Tagging @Achimrst because he'd likely want to know too.

      2. BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean

        Elcryion said:

        I've been playing Achaea for a week or so on different characters, trying to decide on a final one. So far, Alchemist and Shaman appealed to me the most -- although I'll admit I've only very lightly tested the classes.

        How do the two classes fare, in a) bashing, b) 1v1 PvP, and c) group PvP?

        I have been playing shaman for 10 RL years now. I absolutely love it. It is a great bashing class, has awesome versatility in 1v1 combat, ranged potential, and the recent changes with inflame have made group combat a bit more interesting as well. 

        Alchemist is fun, but the momentum build up isn't my cup of tea. It would probably be my third or fourth class choice after shaman, serpent, and jester if I had to put them in order.

        Everything everyone else has said is also spot-on. 

      3. AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Bluef said:
        Sena said:

        Shamans also have some big changes coming, presumably in the near future, but there's not much information about what those changes will be or when they'll happen (as far as I know).

        Oh? I'd not heard of any big changes coming to shaman in the immediate future. I'd heard trade skills were on the way, but I thought Tecton had already said that runelore wouldn't be impacted there.

        Tagging @Achimrst because he'd likely want to know too.

        Oh no honey, I inferred it from classleads, I told you all about that @Bluef! Just check the admin comments to the classleads and why they only gave Shaman gripping :P 

        I still think they are doing something to Vodun and getting rid of Runelore because speculation is fun.

        Bluef
      4. KyrraKyrra AustraliaMember Posts: 4,864 @@ - Legendary Achaean

        Runelore's not a trade skill so unless Shaman's getting a massive reworking, I don't think they'll be touched when the rest of the classes undergo trade skill separation.

        (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

        Bluef
      5. SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean

        I don't know how massive the upcoming shaman changes will be, but they're significant enough that shaman didn't really get classlead changes (a lot of the shaman proposals got responses along the lines of "there are shaman changes coming, we'll see how things go after that").

        Achimrst
      6. AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Kyrra said:

        Runelore's not a trade skill so unless Shaman's getting a massive reworking, I don't think they'll be touched when the rest of the classes undergo trade skill separation.

        I don't think they are changing Runelore, but I remember something being said about classes having double skill sets like Runewarden and Shaman. They might just be breaking it off from Shaman.

        Bluef
      7. BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        edited June 2014
        It makes me wonder if they're doing something balance-wise with vodun. That would be fantastic. 

        I can't see them doing much with curses - that was already re-worked in 2008ish and Tecton has already said runelore won't be going the way of tradeskills. Plus that was also re-worked in like 2005-2006 with the addition of several runes. But then again, runelore has become increasingly more geared toward those with runic blades so who knows. 

        Hopefully, whatever the changes are, they will keep the current flavor of the class and be introduced in a roleplay way that includes all shamans in the realm the way the renewal of runelore event did. 

        Achimrst
      8. AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Bluef said:
        It makes me wonder if they're doing something balance-wise with vodun. That would be fantastic. 

        I can't see them doing much with curses - that was already re-worked in 2008ish and Tecton has already said runelore won't be going the way of tradeskills. Plus that was also re-worked in like 2005-2006 with the addition of several runes. But then again, runelore has become increasingly more geared toward those with runic blades so who knows. 

        Hopefully, whatever the changes are, they will keep the current flavor of the class and be introduced in a roleplay way that includes all shamans in the realm the way the renewal of runelore event did. 

        I honestly think they are going to do an Imperian on Vodun, that's just an uninformed guess though.

      9. BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        edited June 2014
        Achimrst said:
        Bluef said:
        It makes me wonder if they're doing something balance-wise with vodun. That would be fantastic. 

        I can't see them doing much with curses - that was already re-worked in 2008ish and Tecton has already said runelore won't be going the way of tradeskills. Plus that was also re-worked in like 2005-2006 with the addition of several runes. But then again, runelore has become increasingly more geared toward those with runic blades so who knows. 

        Hopefully, whatever the changes are, they will keep the current flavor of the class and be introduced in a roleplay way that includes all shamans in the realm the way the renewal of runelore event did. 

        I honestly think they are going to do an Imperian on Vodun, that's just an uninformed guess though.

        That would suck, but given how Achaea seems to be mimicking everything that has already been done in every other IRE game lately...I wouldn't be surprised. It would also explain how they might plan to separate out runelore, if something akin to marks or inscription became something shamans used instead of runes. 

        I've played all the wicca/shaman classes in the other IRE games and I think they all suck in comparison to shaman in Achaea though, so yeah. It would be such a step backward in my eyes. 


      10. AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        edited June 2014
        Bluef said:
        Achimrst said:
        Bluef said:
        It makes me wonder if they're doing something balance-wise with vodun. That would be fantastic. 

        I can't see them doing much with curses - that was already re-worked in 2008ish and Tecton has already said runelore won't be going the way of tradeskills. Plus that was also re-worked in like 2005-2006 with the addition of several runes. But then again, runelore has become increasingly more geared toward those with runic blades so who knows. 

        Hopefully, whatever the changes are, they will keep the current flavor of the class and be introduced in a roleplay way that includes all shamans in the realm the way the renewal of runelore event did. 

        I honestly think they are going to do an Imperian on Vodun, that's just an uninformed guess though.

        That would suck, but given how Achaea seems to be mimicking everything that has already been done in every other IRE game lately...I wouldn't be surprised. It would also explain how they might plan to separate out runelore, if something akin to marks or inscription became something shamans used instead of runes. 

        I've played all the wicca/shaman classes in the other IRE games and I think they all suck in comparison to shaman in Achaea though, so yeah. It would be such a step backward in my eyes. 


        Only other shaman I played was Aetolia one, I like shooting lightning. That is all.

        Edit: This sounded less insulting when I wrote it, I like shooting lightning because it is fun and that is everything I have to say about Aetolia Shaman as I have not transcended all of it's skills yet.

        Bluef
      11. TerraTerra Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

        Jhui said:
        Alchemist definitely better 1v1.. not sure where this misconception coming from


        Can't really just blanket say that. Depends on the situation, and maybe artefacts/level/etc.

        There are people who I am pretty sure I would have absolutely 0 chance against as alchemist (because I wouldn't be able to tank their damage long enough to use alchie offense) but who I would be able to fight as shaman via hit and run, hit and shield, hindering, whatever.

      12. AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Terra said:

        Jhui said:
        Alchemist definitely better 1v1.. not sure where this misconception coming from


        Can't really just blanket say that. Depends on the situation, and maybe artefacts/level/etc.

        There are people who I am pretty sure I would have absolutely 0 chance against as alchemist (because I wouldn't be able to tank their damage long enough to use alchie offense) but who I would be able to fight as shaman via hit and run, hit and shield, hindering, whatever.

        The last part of this confused me, I need moar wine :(

      13. JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,246 @@ - Legendary Achaean
        Shaman is prep, so you can afford to sacrifice momentum to play defensively and survive against heavy hitters by mountjumping, or tumbling over walls, and running through nairat runes. Alchemist offense is momentum based, which they can't afford to sacrifice for a continuous defense against heavy hitters and will be back at square one every time. For that reason, Alchemists ability to fight effectively scale heavily with their ability to tank their opponent's damage/affliction rate which can often fall down to their level and/or artifacts.

      14. SeverinaSeverina Member Posts: 96 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
        edited June 2014
        Jovolo said:
        <snip>
        Alchemist offense is momentum based, which they can't afford to sacrifice for a continuous defense against heavy hitters and will be back at square one every time. For that reason, Alchemists ability to fight effectively scale heavily with their ability to tank their opponent's damage/affliction rate which can often fall down to their level and/or artifacts.

        Yep to all of the above. It's starting to become frustrating as I have thus far found a lack of experienced alchemists to show me how I might try (via class skills) to mitigate certain classes' ability to damage me out, but even then I still have to survive long enough and get enough tempering to even attempt employing certain things (moar afflictions). Right now I'm often just giggling and watching myself die while slamming the big 'oh crap I need more health, avoidance, what are mounts are they nifty!? arties plz' button.

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