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Comments
This is every rapier forged from September 2007 - now (all 454975 of them).
Unfortunately those you listed wouldn't sell. They're not really viable for a knight to use.
Are you trying to get us to use Scimitars
Please say yes....
[ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]
That is some serious determination to overcome the odds. Amazing seeing it quantified (although we can't know how many of those uber rapiers had usable stats overall). I hope the new system takes this sheer determination and its effects into account. I'm really hoping for something *much* more stable, and would be overjoyed if it weren't chance based at all.
I would love to see the RNG removed entirely from forging. Reduce the weapon duration to 30 months, give every weapon type a 'base' set of stats, then give them all 30 points that can be distributed during creation to different stats. Hammer of Forging could increase forging speed as normal and give a small amount (2-3) of additional stats.
Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."
I hate what Aetolia did. Prety much whst you said and then added weapon runes that increased stats as artifacts.
I like Lusternias method. You get 100% of the steel back when you reforge but you have a random chance to get max stats when refining for a certaon stat. So people are effectively paying for your labor instead of huge material costs.
Viva la Bluef.
I think, for the sake of the game, it's perfectly acceptable to make forging like every other trade skill. Outlier weapons from current forging create imbalances on their own. They force changes to account for the existence of these outlier weapons. Suddenly classes can't compete without outlier weapons, and they're no longer a cool rare thing you're looking for, they're something required to even compete at a decent level as a member of your class. (There are a high number of people constantly looking for high-speed rapiers so they can get involved in Knight combat, as an example, 235+)
Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."
Getting rid of the clunky random stats mechanic opens up so many options to make forging something that's actually interesting throughout the entire process, not just those few seconds before you hit WLIST and see that you've forged another crap item once again.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Party right, party hard,
Sing and dance, perfect bard.
Prefarar loop, accentato whore,Buy a new rapier, get nerfed some more.
confirmed: it's all been downhill since 2009
I think I made that 118 damage...
> I think, for the sake of the game, it's perfectly acceptable to make forging like every other trade skill. Outlier weapons from current forging create imbalances on their own. They force changes to account for the existence of these outlier weapons. Suddenly classes can't compete without outlier weapons, and they're no longer a cool rare thing you're looking for, they're something required to even compete at a decent level as a member of your class. (There are a high number of people constantly looking for high-speed rapiers so they can get involved in Knight combat, as an example, 235+)
Part of the reason there are a lot of people looking for rapiers is because there are very few dedicated forgers out there. Removing the steel cost ala Lusternia would do a lot to bring people onto forging imo. I would forge 24/7.
There is also spmething to be said for fun things. If you remove the powerful things (fast rapiers for example) it does a lot to remove interest in the class. Who as a knight interested in knight mcombat does not dream about super fast swords ripping up the enemy? And how many of them would stay knight if thar option was removed?
Viva la Bluef.
I think you're mistaking 'interest in rapiers' for 'interest in the class'. If rapiers were made reasonable, Knights were buffed to remove the reliance on high speed rapiers, and other weapon types were suddenly viable for different styles of fighting? I imagine interest in Knight classes would be higher than in the past 5 years.
Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."
The knight who has to forge the fucking thing themselves. That absolutely drains -all- interest in any sort of knight combat, unless you're Trey or Peak.
Also what Jarrod said.
> The knight who has to forge the fucking thing themselves. That absolutely drains -all- interest in any sort of knight combat, unless you're Trey or Peak.
>
>
>
>
> Also what Jarrod said.
I will forge it for you. :)
Viva la Bluef.
this, so much this. As it stands, forging is the one and only trade skill (other than enchantment's Augment) that has so much RNG involved that it's more like gambling than anything else, with the outliers making everything that is not an outlier considered sub-par and unusable in true combat
Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."
Tell you what, @Tecton ol' buddy. Give my rapiers the stat maxes from 2009 or 2010 and we can call it a day.
> Part of the fun of weapons is that there is a chance you will get that really powerful weapon. I cant help but think that if you take that away things will get boring fast. I know i wouldnt enjoy forging anymore.
>
> I hate what Aetolia did. Prety much whst you said and then added weapon runes that increased stats as artifacts.
>
> I like Lusternias method. You get 100% of the steel back when you reforge but you have a random chance to get max stats when refining for a certaon stat. So people are effectively paying for your labor instead of huge material costs.
That's not how it works in Lusternia.
Each weapon type has min and max cap on its stats, as well as a cap on total stats (each stat is weighed a little differently). After a weapon is forged, it has random stats. You can then, for 1 steel per time, temper the weapon's stats to be exactly what you want them to be. The Artie hammer removes the steel cost of tempering and makes it faster.
It'd be cool to do that here, but at the same time, weapons work way differently there.
Thanks for correcting me. It's been a looooong time since I forged there trying to make a nice Klangaxe.
Viva la Bluef.
Even a couple years ago, probably around 2012, people were still incredibly resistant to the idea of stabilizing forging by removing, or even reducing chance, although probably somewhat less hostile than they would have been before that. We seem to have really come a long way in terms of people accepting the idea of removing chance in forging.This makes me hopeful that admin will feel more comfortable implementing a much more stable weaponry stats system, or maybe even one that removes chance altogether.
I actually really like the idea of legendary weapons that have been crafted by players.
Granted, they could be skewed a bit less, or maybe there is a very rare chance a sword comes out named. Who knows, but as it stands, having players able to make magnificent things is really a lot of the fun in the forging craft.
A benefit of the change to forging would be that it's perfectly legitimate to make a forged weapon non-decay (and customized) if the restriction got changed, because you can't preserve an outlier, you just preserve your specific stat distribution. That's infintely more interesting in terms of making 'legendary weapons' than having rng names come out, to me.
Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."
I absolutely agree. I had some ideas about what non-probability-based forging might look like, although I'm obviously not a combatant, and the player base seems to be less and less hostile to the idea of letting go of "outliers" which is a great word for them. The overall thread has an interesting discussion as well: http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/comment/38439/#Comment_38439
If I recall correctly, anyone could get a good weapon forged. They start at some base stats and then you spend more comms to up particular stats to what you want.
Also, making your own weapon designs would be amazing. I always loved my giant gilded broadswords.
I'd think about playing my Runewarden again if that came in.
Yeah I also think it's a cool idea.
In reality though, you're spending solid weeks watching your triggers loop the 'forge' command, while you're tabbed out streaming Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. or grinding up your Metagross in another window, for a chance at an outlier weapon that you can sell to someone to break PVP in their favour.
The artisanal nature of Forging is worth preserving. But there are better ways to do it than shutting yourself in a room to worship at the altar of RNG. Create rare ores that can be combined into alloys and forged into weapons with guaranteed better stats. Create a list of variables that forgers can modify, or give them a pool of points that they can divide between weapon attributes. Turn Forging into a literal minigame - port Snake or Space Invaders or Minesweeper into the mud client - and translate success at that into weapon stats.