Love/Hate

Fantasma

I recently got an email from Achaea saying that it was a "perfect time to come back". I've decided to give this a try again after several years. I see that much in the world has improved with a new client and improved task lists. The developers have always been active creating a rich and interesting backdrop. Yet, in reading the through the forums, especially "If you were a newbie combatant", I wonder if the game is really any more friendly to newbies. I always enjoy the game for a period of time until I realize that I'm never achieving even the most basic level of success. I never truly felt like I was full member of any city or house. I came fairly close the last time as a very active Magi in Hashan. I remember getting about 60th or 70th level going rogue when I couldn't tolerate the house BS. I'm trying Targossas this time. Do I have any reason that this time will be any different? I assume the basic house culture of oppression of new players is still in tact. Tell me...Why am I here again?

Anedhel

For one, if you begin anything thinking you're going to hate it, you'll probably end up hating it.

In general, the culture of Achaea's improved a great deal (there are always exceptions, but it's by and large a great deal better). Information on everything, especially combat, is likewise much easier to find.

Still, no matter how much better the game is, ultimately, the only person who can 'make' you enjoy it, is you. Success or failure rests with your attitude, and how you approach it, really.

ETA: This comes up a lot, but it's always accurate- stay off the forums, and your time in Achaea'll be much more pleasant and immersive. Same goes for OOC clans.

Jhaeli

The forums only reflect so much of what is happening in-game, as only a portion of the populace is here. Which is why it's always better to take it with a grain of salt and look to your actual in-game experience. 

As for your actual questions - most places have realised that newbies are the lifeblood of the game and it's gotten a LOT friendlier over time. The new $10 lesson packages make getting past the skill hurdles easier and the introduction of serverside curing has made combat and hunting easier overall. There's a lot to appreciate. Otherwise, you can only jump in and see what grabs you. And if it doesn't, it doesn't!

Aalm

Well, one thing that the forums misrepresent about the game is the amount of Rajamalas in comparison to other races. Nearly everybody on the forums is sporting a cat avatar. I assure you, we are not actually all Rajamalas in game. If domesticated cats were allowed to roam freely in Sapience, Mhaldor would be demolished within a week. Even Targossas loses sometimes. But a bunch of meowing kittens would virtually blow up the forces of Chaos and Evil through sheer cuteness and adorableness.

Srsly, the game is nice for new folks, especially if they can tell you're really not understanding everything yet. There ARE mean people in every City, but also a bunch of good funny players that would just love to tell you how awesome @Carmain 's eyebrows are.

Fantasma

I appreciate your post, Jhaeli. Thanks for the encouragement and the wise advice at the end

Jhaeli

Then a bit more for you. 

In twelve years, I am the closest I've ever been to getting Logosian on any character. I just really hate hunting. I am also not much of a combatant. And yet, I've found numerous ways to appreciate the game (mainly via politics). You just need to find the right people to mesh into - and this can take a few characters to really find. Don't give up if, say, Targossas doesn't work for you. Try another city. (Cyrene is no where near as terrible as the forums would have you believe, for example. It's easy to find welcoming people here.)

Sarapis

If Cyrene was terrible, it wouldn't be one of the most popular cities (#1 or #2 population-wise, with the other being Ashtan). They're clearly doing something right up in the mountains.

Cenius

I got this same email a week or 2 ago, and It's been at least 5 years since i've played. Besides the fact that I didn't really play a ton back then either, I have a vague reference to killing ghosts at a monastery for hours and hours. I've started back up for better or worse and I am enjoying myself so far. There seems to be a lot of conflict between the cities which makes things interesting, albeit difficult for me at times. However on a personal level I feel like im playing a single player game. Are there enough new players that I could actually find other people to bash with? I think only 2 or 3 people in my city have ever spoken to me without me contacting them first, and they always ask me if I need anything. Yea I need something, it's friends, people to enjoy my time with, and I have no idea how to go about doing that while staying in-character. Aside from that nearly the entirety of my time logged in has been bashing solo, I mean like im past level 50 and I haven't even left the lowest rank in my house. Well that started to turn into a rant, so I'll take the other route now.

There are a ton of improvements that have been made since I last played. The html5 client is simply amazing, and I'm not sure how it compares in speed to mudlet or other mud clients but the built in map and windows really helped me get into the swing of things very quickly. The server side curing system is fantastic, and while I've read that it has some glaring drawbacks in actual pvp combat for hunting denizens it has been a godsend. The lesson/credit packages are also much more user friendly as well, a no-brainer if you'll excuse the pun.

Tecton

@Cenius‌ - Mhaldor can be a quiet place, they're very militaristic, but try sending some other players on CWHO a tell and see where that leads! You could also look at striking up an in-character conversation with people that you meet when out and about bashing and questing. Nobody said that you're forbidden from talking to people outside Mhaldor!

Worst case, this particular post may spur some people to take the extra step and strike up a conversation with you!

Wei

I was also away from the game for a long time (about 9 years) and have just recently returned. I'm a huge fan of all the improvements I've seen. Both to the newbie experience and to other parts of the game.

<blockquote class="Quote">
<div class="QuoteAuthor"><a href="/profile/Aalm">Aalm</a> said:</div>
<div class="QuoteText"><p>Well, one thing that the forums misrepresent about the game is the amount of Rajamalas in comparison to other races...</p></div>
</blockquote>

Well, I don't know about the rest of the world, but it seems like about 50% of the population of Hashan are Rajamalan.

...and 50% of the rest are Sirens.

Jukilian

Hey now.. I'm a Grook, @Wei

To go with your comment about oppression of house newcomers - the requirements that most Houses have for newcomers is to help you start out, give you the best advice for abilities, and help introduce you into the culture of the House and City you are a part of.

It's all to help you get a better grip of the game, which is why newbies are MUCH better off joining a city and a House when they start out.

If you're much more experienced with the game, then going Houseless may be more survivable.

Caoimhaen

Honestly. I think its all your attitude. If you want to try. How you want to rp and in general you just gotta pursue and talk to people. Yeah. Sometimes the older players can be hard to get a hold of, But most are quite willing to help you out. Just gotta be active and show initiative. That goes for any house and any city really. My character is mostly self taught as a combatant in a lot of things but I did bug people for tips. You need to make the effort. RP and people dont come to you. Hell. Be the change your house needs. Whatever. Just do your best and choose to have fun. If it aint fun. Try something else. If not. Dont play. Simple as that.

Hanley

@Caoimhaen to be fair, your still learning. Hell, so am I.

Fantasma

There was a bit of sarcasm in my initial post and I detect even a hint of bitterness reading it back. I think Cenius spoke for me and many others who fail to catch on in Achaea better than I did. Here is his most eloquent summary:

 " on a personal level I feel like im playing a single player game. Are there enough new players that I could actually find other people to bash with? I think only 2 or 3 people in my city have ever spoken to me without me contacting them first, and they always ask me if I need anything. Yea I need something, it's friends, people to enjoy my time with, and I have no idea how to go about doing that while staying in-character. Aside from that nearly the entirety of my time logged in has been bashing solo, I mean like im past level 50 and I haven't even left the lowest rank in my house."

The learning curve can be frustrating at times, and tasks that would be intuitive in the real world are often very difficult to master in the game, but that is no show stopper for me. Solving problems has its own intrinsic reward. The real question I have is that after devoting months of effort to get where Cenius is in level (I will level more much more slowly on purpose to try to have a more rich immersing experience in the game world), will I find myself burnt out on another multi-tiered task list in my house without even being a full member? Will I reach the a level of suicidal rage rendering the experience completely pointless yet again? Its the effort vs reward relationship that concerns me. I've never felt that I truly had ever started the "real game".

Of course, if the creators of Achaea or any game world solve this problem, you will create many more. Your retention rate would get so high that the world may become too crowded. More people would be willing to spend real money on the experience. You might earn enough to retire and close up shop.

If the cycle repeats again, at least my name fits. It means "ghost"

Jhaeli

Sometimes the novice tasks can seem like a lot, but there's almost always purpose to them. And talking to another House member about them could be a good way to get in some interaction.

Every city has a "hang out" room as well, where people tend to congregate. In Cyrene, it's Centre Crossing. I am less familiar with them in other cities, but they're usually in a well-trafficked place. They can make for good places to strike up random conversations and meet people.

Zuko

Cyrene - Centre Crossing

Ashtan - Gates, NW of the Gates, or the battlements N NW U from the gates

Targossas - The first 10 rooms of the city ex: Combat Scriptures, Rally Point, A bustling ferrier's yard, Barracks.

Hashan - Crossroads

Eleusis - The first 3 rooms or so when you enter the village

Go socialize!

Kyrra

Would have said Fire and Spice over the battlements in Ashtan unless you don't mind a lot of spam from combat testing.

Anedhel

@Fantasma

It's entirely possible that what I say next may come out sounding a bit harsh, but I'll do my utmost to make it as constructive as I can. No promises, though!

The idea that you're not in 'the real game' yet, from what you've written, seems to stem from the fact that you haven't been swept up off your feet, carried to some lovely place where you're at the center of things, and surrounded by people looking for your company, input, and contributions. The problem with that attitude, is that that's not the way Achaea works.

Remember, first and foremost, that Achaea's made up of other people, so it's not a conventional game in the sense that the entirety of the game world is meant to cater to you. Which isn't to say they don't. People are extraordinarily kind and patient, in Achaea, when it comes to dealing with newcomers- of many, many, many games out there that I've tried, I'd say Achaea's perhaps the best when it comes to every-day people taking time out of their way to be helpful and kind to new players.

Still, there's an underlying problem with the way it sounds like you're approaching Achaea. If you're waiting for things to happen to you, you're going to invariable be disappointed. Achaea's definitely a game where you have to make things happen, because if you're just hoping for others to include you, for the stories to come to you, for the knowledge to drop into your head, it's not going to happen. And the number one way people will want to spend time with you is to have a good attitude about things. This may be an unpopular thing to say, but I would 100% rather spend time with a novice who says 'Gee, this is really hard, but I'd love for company/help/advice to help me get through it' than a novice who says 'God this sucks, it's so hard, and it's really unfair.' Putting yourself in a position to be helped goes a long way; at times, it's hard to remember that players run the day-to-day, and they're people, too. Making the game enjoyable both for yourself and for those you play with is where the best facet of Achaea lies.

Good luck, too!

Nim

I sometimes wonder why people in Achaea are so stingy about roleplaying sometimes. I know I roleplay a shy, introverted, angry-with-the-world monk, but you can't tell me all of you do. D:

Ladrun

The community at large seems quite helpful. I have only been around for a couple days but when I have a question it doesn't tend to go unanswered for more than a couple minutes. Even if it is "you need to try and find out for yourself first" "look here ..."

Jukilian

If you want to make friends, be approachable. If you want to hunt with people, ask people around your level.

If House requirements are crazy and stressful, talk to the Head of Newcomers. It is their job to increase newcomer retention in their Houses (well, it is everyone's, but it's their job title at least).

Anedhel's post was good advice, and from what I can see from my phone you gave Anedhel a WTF for the post. I don't understand. I'm confused.

In general, no one will know if you want hunting partners, help, advice, friends, etc unless you say something. I know that if you just spend all your time hunting and not interacting with people, there is a much higher likelihood that people will probably not interact with you. Especially if you say nothing yourself. If you're shy it can be difficult for sure, but if you are shy IRL it's the same kinda thing so that is to be expected.

Our advice isn't going to help you if you don't want to listen to our advice. I hope some of the advice here is making a difference.

Aehren

While Anedhel‌ has a valid point, and I agree with everything said, I also think there's an underlying clique-y attitude present throughout the game and people's interactions that isn't conducive to truly aiding those who need it, nor in including them in activities they want to participate in.

Of course people are going to have their friends, their acquaintances, and their enemies- that's a natural result of having a personality. One of the problems I frequently encounter is many people seem to think that being generally amicable and friendly equates to being helpful. While a "look here..." may suffice for some (most?) people, if someone is going to the trouble of asking a relatively in-depth question, I assume they've gone through the obvious help files and haven't found their answer. Similarly, attempts by newer players to become involved in roleplay- whether it be primary character introductions that could lead on to something greater or something else entirely- are often not played upon, and the interaction ends with both parties going their separate ways with nothing gained and opportunities wasted.

Players DO run the day-to-day, and while newer players should absolutely endeavour to initiate and persevere in their attempts to become truly included in the world and its activities, the onus of those interactions being meaningful is not on them alone. We ARE Achaea; as more experienced players, we have an obligation to draw them into the world we have enjoyed so much.

My advice to you, Fantasma‌ is unfortunately similar to some of the stuff you've already heard: persevere and try and try again. I did, and I managed to surround myself with people who I respect, admire, and enjoy greatly. Keep at it, and it won't be long before you're surrounded by people who are genuinely your kind.

Eiredhel

Speak of which @Aehren, play more, people miss you. 

Advice to @Fantasma: Be consistent in being around or people will miss you. 

Aalm

Sarapis said:

If Cyrene was terrible, it wouldn't be one of the most popular cities (#1 or #2 population-wise, with the other being Ashtan). They're clearly doing something right up in the mountains.

I agree -- people ridicule us on combat, but we're a cultural center, so there's a lot of good RP and thoughtful discourse. Sometimes CT erupts in puns, haikus, word scrambling, etc. It's fun.

Caoimhaen

> @Aalm said:
> Sarapis said:
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> If Cyrene was terrible, it wouldn't be one of the most popular cities (#1 or #2 population-wise, with the other being Ashtan). They're clearly doing something right up in the mountains.
>
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> I agree -- people ridicule us on combat, but we're a cultural center, so there's a lot of good RP and thoughtful discourse. Sometimes CT erupts in puns, haikus, word scrambling, etc. It's fun.
Heh. Now you are making wanna join cyrene. Cut it out.:P

Fantasma

Thanks for all the comments. Anedhel was the most helpful of all in helping me decide if I had the time to put into this game to make it rewarding. I certainly don't wish to ruin the game for anyone and certainly never wanted to be catered to. Anyway, the solution to Achaea has always been the same for me. Thankfully, I wasted only a few precious hours of my life this time. This time it came without the rage.

Enjoy yourselves.

Sincerely,

The ghost.

Aepas

Possibly one of the most passive aggressive people I've ever seen.