Two landmarks suggestions

Verrucht

Jarrod said:

Verrucht said:

Jarrod said:

Aalm said:

@Sarapis : I just got a Landmarks-related concern from one of my friends. He is in the City government and says some of the time he likes to be alone, and the new WALK TO, anybody from our city can just walk to him and barge in on him and whatever private conversation/meeting he's having. He's worried that he'll have no privacy now.

Can we please have a function of LANDMARK SELF OFF/ON or something similar, so people can toggle on and off whether people from their House and City can walk to them? That way, they'll only be a Landmarks target if they consent to it.

If you're a leader, you're there for the org you're a leader of. If you're unavailable it's extremely simple to make yourself unavailable, but if you're around then you should be available for people to interact with or you should re-evaluate staying in your leadership position.

There are multiple levels of interaction, and no, not every leader should be 100% available for a face to face conversation with anyone who happens to be able to walk in. Sometimes there are other things that are either more important or that are currently being dealt with.

Already addressed. If you're somewhere people can walk to normally, this changes nothing besides them being able to skip the 'sense <leader>' step.

It doesn't respect veil/hood - so yeah it changes a hell of a lot.

Santar

Not everyone buys a veil for the same reason. Some people might want to avoid being located by their own city/housemates. 

Jarrod

If you're using a veil/hood to avoid interaction with your city and house mates you need to step down.

Santar

Step down from what?  What do leadership positions have to do with this?

Is there no situation where a member of an organization might want the privacy a veil offers?

Aalm

Jarrod said:

If you're using a veil/hood to avoid interaction with your city and house mates you need to step down.

@Jarrod : That's simply unreasonable. People in his position are swamped with duties of the office, if people were able to constantly locate the Imperiate, Tyranus, Overseer, etc., for minor concerns, it would be total chaos and he'd never get anything done. Part of his position is setting priorities in which to do things. This takes it away.

I didn't think of this while making the OP for this thread, but if I had, I would have put this in my OP. I don't think Veil/Hood is the solution for this issue, I think the person should simply be able to turn off and on whether people can target him or her for landmarks movement. That way a city leader with no veil will have no problems either.

Nim

Citymate veils are awful anyway. I approve of all the hells and lots being changed, even though 80% of my autowalking is to enemies and thus unaffected.

ETA: Don't most leaders get a potentially lockable office? That seems handy for things like this, and a potential solution if they don't already have one.

Verrucht

Jarrod said:

If you're using a veil/hood to avoid interaction with your city and house mates you need to step down.

Again, it's not the wholesale avoiding of "interaction" it's being able to have some peace and quiet without wondering who is going to just randomly pop in and try to strike up a conversation.  If people want to talk to me, they can always contact me and I'll speak with them. If they want a face to face conversation, they can have it - but there's no reason why it should be that much easier for it to be on someone's terms other than my own.  You don't get the problem, I understand that, but since you don't get it - maybe stop commenting on it like you do.

Jarrod

Verrucht said:

Jarrod said:

If you're using a veil/hood to avoid interaction with your city and house mates you need to step down.

Again, it's not the wholesale avoiding of "interaction" it's being able to have some peace and quiet without wondering who is going to just randomly pop in and try to strike up a conversation.  If people want to talk to me, they can always contact me and I'll speak with them. If they want a face to face conversation, they can have it - but there's no reason why it should be that much easier for it to be on someone's terms other than my own.  You don't get the problem, I understand that, but since you don't get it - maybe stop commenting on it like you do.

You're creating a 'problem' that doesn't exist. It's extremely easy to find veil'd people without a veil in any of the cities, you're just against people having to check with another veil'd person, or touching a prism?

I get that there's no problem besides you want it to be difficult for people to talk to you.

Verrucht

Jarrod said:

Verrucht said:

Jarrod said:

If you're using a veil/hood to avoid interaction with your city and house mates you need to step down.

Again, it's not the wholesale avoiding of "interaction" it's being able to have some peace and quiet without wondering who is going to just randomly pop in and try to strike up a conversation.  If people want to talk to me, they can always contact me and I'll speak with them. If they want a face to face conversation, they can have it - but there's no reason why it should be that much easier for it to be on someone's terms other than my own.  You don't get the problem, I understand that, but since you don't get it - maybe stop commenting on it like you do.

You're creating a 'problem' that doesn't exist. It's extremely easy to find veil'd people without a veil in any of the cities, you're just against people having to check with another veil'd person, or touching a prism?

I get that there's no problem besides you want it to be difficult for people to talk to you.

Find me in person. I want it to be difficult for people to find me in person. That's what you're not getting - there are multiple other avenues for talking to someone that I engage in and respond to.

Aalm

Jarrod said:

Verrucht said:

Jarrod said:

If you're using a veil/hood to avoid interaction with your city and house mates you need to step down.

Again, it's not the wholesale avoiding of "interaction" it's being able to have some peace and quiet without wondering who is going to just randomly pop in and try to strike up a conversation.  If people want to talk to me, they can always contact me and I'll speak with them. If they want a face to face conversation, they can have it - but there's no reason why it should be that much easier for it to be on someone's terms other than my own.  You don't get the problem, I understand that, but since you don't get it - maybe stop commenting on it like you do.

You're creating a 'problem' that doesn't exist. It's extremely easy to find veil'd people without a veil in any of the cities, you're just against people having to check with another veil'd person, or touching a prism?

I get that there's no problem besides you want it to be difficult for people to talk to you.

@Jarrod : Landmarks don't affect talking, they affect being able to move in the same room as the person very easily. Sending your city leader a tell will not disrupt a major and private meeting. He or she would ask you to talk later, no harm done. If you simply come in his room, that just might disrupt things, especially if many people do this in a short period of time. Keep in mind not everybody has a full grasp of Achaea, and a huge part of Landmarks is to help those inexperienced people.

Jarrod

There is no such thing as a 'private' meeting that anyone can walk into. That is a horrid example.

Verrucht

Jarrod said:

There is no such thing as a 'private' meeting that anyone can walk into. That is a horrid example.

Sure there is - a closed Senate meeting which is held in the Hall of Senators privacy room - and any Cyrenian can walk into there.  Thus, a private meeting that anyone can walk into.

Santar

Verrucht said:

Jarrod said:

There is no such thing as a 'private' meeting that anyone can walk into. That is a horrid example.

Sure there is - a closed Senate meeting which is held in the Hall of Senators privacy room - and any Cyrenian can walk into there.  Thus, a private meeting that anyone can walk into.

I tried to get to you in the Hall of Senators the other week but you moved

(bet you've been wondering who it was for the past 2 weeks)

Jarrod

The difference between unannounced and private. If anyone can attend, it's not private.

Nemutaur

Verrucht said:

Jarrod said:

There is no such thing as a 'private' meeting that anyone can walk into. That is a horrid example.

Sure there is - a closed Senate meeting which is held in the Hall of Senators privacy room - and any Cyrenian can walk into there.  Thus, a private meeting that anyone can walk into.

Every Cyrenian can open that door? Can't you just change the perms on that thing?

Verrucht

Nemutaur said:

Verrucht said:

Jarrod said:

There is no such thing as a 'private' meeting that anyone can walk into. That is a horrid example.

Sure there is - a closed Senate meeting which is held in the Hall of Senators privacy room - and any Cyrenian can walk into there.  Thus, a private meeting that anyone can walk into.

Every Cyrenian can open that door? Can't you just change the perms on that thing?

Honestly, that's as intended - since we also have open meetings there.  It's not intended to be wholly and solely for only the Senate to use.  There are, however, private meetings held there that are for limited groups of individuals. We had some of the talks about Houses there, even.

Nemutaur

I bet those open meetings also need Senators present, are you guys not capable of opening doors if someone knocks?

Aalm

Sorry, please delete my post.

Nemutaur

@Aalm‌ : Better than everyone barging in on a closed doors meeting isn't it? Most of the Cyrenians will know better and they could be barging in right now, a veil is an elitist way to say 'can't find me peasants and newbies'.

Verrucht

Nemutaur said:

I bet those open meetings also need Senators present, are you guys not capable of opening doors if someone knocks?

True, but they're often attended by 15+ people and there's some going in and out as necessity dictates.  To interrupt the proceedings each time someone needs in or out would be more annoying that people being able to come in and out.

Nemutaur

Verrucht said:

Nemutaur said:

I bet those open meetings also need Senators present, are you guys not capable of opening doors if someone knocks?

True, but they're often attended by 15+ people and there's some going in and out as necessity dictates.  To interrupt the proceedings each time someone needs in or out would be more annoying that people being able to come in and out.

Don't you have a private office as the Imperiate with a door that you can control for more private meetings?

Open meetings can stay open, closed Senate meetings can take place in your office.

Verrucht

Nemutaur said:

Verrucht said:

Nemutaur said:

I bet those open meetings also need Senators present, are you guys not capable of opening doors if someone knocks?

True, but they're often attended by 15+ people and there's some going in and out as necessity dictates.  To interrupt the proceedings each time someone needs in or out would be more annoying that people being able to come in and out.

Don't you have a private office as the Imperiate with a door that you can control for more private meetings?

Open meetings can stay open, closed Senate meetings can take place in your office.

The office is not a privacy room, and as such, is actually less private.

Nim

A config option would solve everything*. Needing veils to have a private meeting is an implication of your argument.

That said, it might be dumb if it just started autowalking you to person X without telling you they're actually soloraiding Ashtan and woops you're enemied to Ashtan and @Kross just decided to jumpkick your face.

*where everything does not include exploring the entire city manually until you're found/asking @Strata where you are (he'd probably tell you maybe)

Jovolo

I don't know why anyone would disagree with a configurable option to remove yourself from the WALK TO <person> command?

Jarrod

Because there's no reason to have one besides to exclude the people who need WALK TO from being able to use it, which you can do just as easily by moving to a private area if you need a private setting.

Verrucht

Jarrod said:

Because there's no reason to have one besides to exclude the people who need WALK TO from being able to use it, which you can do just as easily by moving to a private area if you need a private setting.

Nobody -needs-  to be able to walk to every single person who is a member of the city they are in.

Aalm

Jarrod said:

Because there's no reason to have one besides to exclude the people who need WALK TO from being able to use it, which you can do just as easily by moving to a private area if you need a private setting.

@Jarrod : you can simply ask the person to turn their config on so you can walk to them. We can turn off CT, Tells, HT, even everything from a player via Ignore -- we can turn off almost anything -- but you want this particular, similarly-situated function to NOT be treated the same, for basically no reason that any of us can fathom.

Jarrod

Tbh intentionally excluding yourself from the primary channel of an Org you intentionally joined is a bit dumb, 100% moreso for a leader, which is what this was originally brought up regarding.

Jovolo

If you don't want someone to be able to easily walk to you, regardless of being affiliated via city relation, then you should have that right. It's not a matter of someone needing to walk to them, it's a matter of someone wanting to and being able to without objection unless the target in question has access to a mechanically private room, even through veils and the like. 

It doesn't affect you, and it doesn't affect anyone other than those who want it for the above reasons. Your objection stems from a position of "Well I don't think they need it." rather than "They shouldn't have access to this option for x and y important reasons." or at least that's what I gather from your post. 

It would still be usable by anyone that wants the benefits and drawbacks of it. It just wouldn't be imposed upon everybody. 

Jarrod

Jovolo said:

If you don't want someone to be able to easily walk to you, regardless of being affiliated via city relation, then you should have that right. It's not a matter of someone needing to walk to them, it's a matter of someone wanting to and being able to without objection unless the target in question has access to a mechanically private room, even through veils and the like.

This is already non-existent. If someone can sense you, and you're somewhere that can be reached, they can walk to you. This system doesn't change that. Nothing was added that made people less able to avoid interaction. The absolute only case that is changed by this is if someone doesn't know who has a veil to ask to sense someone for them. If you don't have a veil, a toggle does nothing. If you do have a veil, what you're essentially stating is that you only want people who have spent 2000cr on a veil to be able to walk to you, or someone with a friend who spent 2000cr.

That is a terrible philosophy and a terrible idea to implement.