Tumblolole Races

Melodie

No tumblerace for y700?

@Iocun gon be mad.

Santar

Sarapis has the right of this.

Tumble race is a terrible, archaic event that needs to be completely removed in favour of something else.

Could just move it to a non-points event.

Sarapis

Daeir said:

A little bit. You could hamstring every mapper in existence by temporarily omitting gmcp room data, if that is even a possible toggle on your backend. I like the idea of a race, but you should shove some mario-kart stuff in it (a la tumbleweb but more intense) to give the event a bit of flesh outside of simply locating a given point.

All someone would have to do is build a db of rooms that's based off a combination of room title and exits from that room to do the same without gmcp room data.

Sarapis

My preference, at the moment, is to replace it with a ship-based event. Ship arena, perhaps. 

Dunn

@Kinilan

The maple leaf signal!

Kinilan

Dunn said:

@Kinilan

The maple leaf signal!

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Tesha

Ship stuff? I hope there's a call for ideas or a poll or something before 700, replacing one of the championship events is a huge deal. 

That said, I used my mapper for the tumblerace with just two modifications, no idea what Daeir posted. I think this tumblerace would have been a lot better if it wasn't based on finding the plinth in an entire area, that leaves a lot up to chance and turns it into more of a luck or team based. Which might be slightly better than script-based, but I'd prefer something skill or knowledge based. 

Tumblerace should probably be replaced. There are other events that are already team based - xpevent and bandersnatch. Quiz is mostly solo, twins is obviously 2v2. Another solo event would fill in the roster nicely. I think if the majority of the events are team-based, it will just turn into who has the most people. Maybe jousting would be a good championship event for the next one.

Sarapis

Ships are one of Achaea's biggest systems that lends itself to competition, after PK and hunting, so it makes sense to include it in the Championship.

Santar

I don't think the anti-ship whining as much merit.

People could say the same thing about other events about not liking quizzes/hunting/combat.

Jonathin

Seafaring events for points would be pretty nice actually.

If they're put in as part of the games, it might bring more people into the world of ship combat and exploration as the games draw near. It would be cool to see more people actually getting into that whole facet of combat.

inb4 the naysayers: just because you don't like seafaring doesn't mean that other people don't. There will still be plenty of other events to supplement your lack of enjoyment of ships. Also, if you don't have a ship, get one or join an organization that has one. There are plenty of non-city organizations/people (PoM, Mountain Mariners, Iron Privateers, Mariners Guild, Orders, friends, parents, etc) that will allow you to use their ships.

Draekar

A solo sailing circumnavigate type race could be fun, especially if you threw a few seamonsters in the water!

Florentino

The Quiz is one of the only Achaean events where there is no financial barrier to entry. Twins and the xp event benefit greatly from artefacts, and the bandersnatch does to a lesser extent. How are people who don't have Seafaring supposed to even try to compete in the ship event? Meh.

Jarrod

Why should players with extensive investment of time or money for bashing/credit purchases not have better odds, that are obtainable by anyone else, at a huge event in the game they invest their time/money into?

Nim

No worldwide freeze tag?

</3

Jurixe

To be entirely fair, you shouldn't expect to pose any sort of a challenge in something like twins/pk bandersnatch without having learnt some necessary skills like Survival, for instance. It's more or less the same for Seafaring - you really only need the Seafaring skill, and the argument that Seafaring requires an immense gold investment is somewhat negated by the fact that there is a fairly large array of org-owned ships that are more or less just idling in harbour waiting for people to make use of them. I can't speak for the other cities, but Mhaldor certainly has a good few.There perhaps could be an argument made that something like Survival has more day to day utility than Seafaring, but Seafaring also opens up entire new areas, so I guess that's your tradeoff.

Personally, I'd love a championship Foozle. That tests speed -and- memory -and- planning ability, and it doesn't even really matter if you have an autowalker!

Tesha

Foozle would be fun, but it's got a ton of luck. For example: Your card is: Ugrach (lol), summerstorm, cheetah, squid, colbey (dead) vs orc, captain, mage, smith, catfish (all in one area).

Kinilan

Draekar said:

A solo sailing circumnavigate type race could be fun, especially if you threw a few seamonsters in the water!

Course 5 is about as close as you can get to that. it took about half an hour before the chops north of Thraasi/Tasur'ke were made even worse and when you could wavecall in ship races then sleep back your endurence while someone else wavecalled the ship forward a bunch more. Seamonsters wouldn't do anything but get in the way and/or cost the race for whoever thought it was a good idea to slow down and kill it while veryone else continues on their way. They can't do crap to your ship unless they are right beside you.

Also, solo sailing is for chumps. These latest races were the most exciting I've been in if just for the crew and passengers and aside from a handful of passengers from Ashtan that wanted to watch everyone else was contributing in one way or another. Taraus was navigating from the nest Jarrod was calling targets while Dunn and Jarrod laied down a hail of spidershot, Nemutaur was manning the helm setting jink as needed and I was doing the piloting and the results of our teamwork in the group activity that is sailing are obvious. We rocked the first race with nobody in sight before we even reached the first gate. the second race where everyone was going the wrong way because of a bug in shiprace bearings we clawed our way from what was precieved to be last all the way to first before the race was restarted and we would have taken first in the last race by a fair margin if I hadn't DCed
. Thankfully Jarrod was on the ball and took over fairly quick. Seriously Jarrod is Ashtan's hero in the 650 games. guy deserves a statue.

I'm all for ship things in 700 Af games and beyond. Just not solo. That's not what seafaring is about.

Antonius

Jarrod said:

Why should players with extensive investment of time or money for bashing/credit purchases not have better odds, that are obtainable by anyone else, at a huge event in the game they invest their time/money into?

Can you captain a ship with literally no Seafaring? I'm totally oblivious when it comes to ships because it doesn't interest me at all.

Dunn

Or they can just give everyone the ability like they do with the tumbleraces.

Shunsui

Have a worldwide seamonster slaying contest, with points varying on the size and type of monster slain, with additional points for sinking other participating ships.

As for being able to participate...seafaring only costs a little bit of gold and some time to actually acquire. Sure, captaining is a lot easier with trans, but anyone can fire a ship weapon with just 1 SPP. Honestly a seafaring event would probably open up participation to more people than most other events, since you need a captain, someone to lead forceboards, and a crew to fire weapons/follow along for forceboarding. Only issue I see is how to distribute championship points to the winning crew. Maybe have a designated 'leader' (not necessarily the captain) who gets the 10 points, and everyone else gets half? I dunno how that would work precisely. Giving everyone 10 seems weird.

Jaizsur

Tesha said:

Foozle would be fun, but it's got a ton of luck. For example: Your card is: Ugrach (lol), summerstorm, cheetah, squid, colbey (dead) vs orc, captain, mage, smith, catfish (all in one area).

There isn't really that much luck involved. You know you're going to get a card with some unfoozable items, that's part of the game. The key is to find the closest object on that list (even if it's only worth 1 point), foozle it, submit the card, and move on to the next card which is hopefully completable.

Sarapis said:

Daeir said:

A little bit. You could hamstring every mapper in existence by temporarily omitting gmcp room data, if that is even a possible toggle on your backend. I like the idea of a race, but you should shove some mario-kart stuff in it (a la tumbleweb but more intense) to give the event a bit of flesh outside of simply locating a given point.

All someone would have to do is build a db of rooms that's based off a combination of room title and exits from that room to do the same without gmcp room data.

Or just use Achaea's colour config to make room titles a unique color and trigger room entry on that. But that said, even with ubiquitous mapping, if you're making the tumblerace slightly riddle based then the winner is going to be the most clever one.

Makarios

At that point though, it may as well be the master riddle for the event.

Jaizsur

I think they're a collection of geography based riddles that aren't as difficult as Master Riddles.

Eld

Tesha said:

Foozle would be fun, but it's got a ton of luck. For example: Your card is: Ugrach (lol), summerstorm, cheetah, squid, colbey (dead) vs orc, captain, mage, smith, catfish (all in one area).

Nothing wrong with Ugrach on a card. The really unreasonable ones are things like Jeramun, tsol'dasi, septacean (if you don't have a pebble)...

Blujixapug

Tesha said:

Foozle would be fun, but it's got a ton of luck. For example: Your card is: Ugrach (lol), summerstorm, cheetah, squid, colbey (dead) vs orc, captain, mage, smith, catfish (all in one area).

As long as the Foozle is long enough - 30 minutes or more - then luck should average out. The trick is knowing when you have a bad card and getting the quickest thing you can to submit it, since it's not worth your time to go for more than one item unless you can get all 5.

In terms of being a single-player event that rewards geographic knowledge, I think Foozle fills a very similar role to the Tumble Race.

People can potentially automate Foozle, as they can with Tumble Races, but what are you gonna do... Maybe add new items to the Foozle card rotation for the championship event?

Sena

Blujixapug said:

People can potentially automate Foozle, as they can with Tumble Races, but what are you gonna do... Maybe add new items to the Foozle card rotation for the championship event?

It's possible to keep a database of every known item/denizen and their locations to make foozles easy, but those are much less popular and widespread (I've only heard of two people doing something like that) than autowalkers, and harder to share. Automation wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem as it is in the tumble races.

Melodie

Would totally support championship foozle for y700. Also some kind of ship event, with or without granting people temporary access to Seafaring (but you have to provide your own ship either way).

I also think tumbleraces should stay, but if you're thinking of them not being worth the effort for championship points, maybe just turn them back into a normal 00/50 event with prizes and nothing else. This was the first I had ever done and I actually had a good time with it, and it makes me want to learn geography even better for next time.

Blujixapug

Sena said:

Blujixapug said:

People can potentially automate Foozle, as they can with Tumble Races, but what are you gonna do... Maybe add new items to the Foozle card rotation for the championship event?

It's possible to keep a database of every known item/denizen and their locations to make foozles easy, but those are much less popular and widespread (I've only heard of two people doing something like that) than autowalkers, and harder to share. Automation wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem as it is in the tumble races.

Sounds like the solution is to track those people down and kill them yeah idk

Jaizsur

Melodie said:

Would totally support championship foozle for y700. Also some kind of ship event, with or without granting people temporary access to Seafaring (but you have to provide your own ship either way).

I also think tumbleraces should stay, but if you're thinking of them not being worth the effort for championship points, maybe just turn them back into a normal 00/50 event with prizes and nothing else. This was the first I had ever done and I actually had a good time with it, and it makes me want to learn geography even better for next time.

You'd have to make sure some jerks didn't go around killing all the foozable things though.

Santar

what the foozle