Jera idea - mainstat

Shecks

Apparently.

Bluef

Decan said:

sleep runes are used to prone not so much for the sleep... duh also softfocus is why totems are less effective

Sigh. How many freaking times do I need to say this? 

Yes, but if you're a class that has a big endurance drain due to certain abilities you will sleep longer, which does make them more effective against particular classes.

Now, can you stop following me around to every forum I post on @Decan? You're a freaking sociopath and if there was a way to block you from viewing my profile and posts here, I would have already done it. 

Cooper

You're wrong, though, no matter how many times you repeat yourself.

You're only right on the off chance the person is at completely full endurance and the fully rested message wakes them up instead of the wake command, which will be the case so infrequently it's not really worth mentioning.

Achimrst

Cooper said:

You're wrong, though, no matter how many times you repeat yourself. You're only right on the off chance the person is at completely full endurance and the fully rested message wakes them up instead of the wake command, which will be the case so infrequently it's not really worth mentioning.

I don't see how she is wrong when the message came from her bug reporting it.

Accipiter

She is saying that the wake command takes longer the more tired and less endurance you have. That is my anecdotal experience as well and she says she has tested it, but I guess theory crafting doesn't count around here unless Sena does it.

Achimrst

Accipiter said:

She is saying that the wake command takes longer the more tired and less endurance you have. That is my anecdotal experience as well and she says she has tested it, but I guess theory crafting doesn't count around here unless Sena does it.

Well wtf @Sena get on this so we can make it official!

Jacen

Xith said:

Yeah if you have metawake it's just writhe + eat bloodroot and the totem was about as bothersome as a web tattoo. A "passive" web but still.

Except that, you know, all the monks in the room get a free AXK because you're also prone from sleeping.

Sena

Achimrst said:

Accipiter said:

She is saying that the wake command takes longer the more tired and less endurance you have. That is my anecdotal experience as well and she says she has tested it, but I guess theory crafting doesn't count around here unless Sena does it.

Well wtf @Sena get on this so we can make it official!

I was actually working on a post about this already. For those who don't want to wait for the full details, though: I haven't tested fehu specifically (just normal sleeping and delphinium), so it could be unique somehow, but endurance seems to have no effect at all on how long it takes to wake with metawake. It does seem to make a difference without metawake.

Penwize

Metawake does not interact with the WAKE command at all, actually.  Metawake awakens you passively, without you having to enter any commands, a very short time after falling asleep (between 0.4s and 1s, roughly, but random).  Endurance levels do affect how quickly WAKE will wake you up, but that has no real bearing on metawake.

Shecks

Penwize said:

Metawake does not interact with the WAKE command at all, actually.  Metawake awakens you passively, without you having to enter any commands, a very short time after falling asleep (between 0.4s and 1s, roughly, but random).  Endurance levels do affect how quickly WAKE will wake you up, but that has no real bearing on metawake.

Is this new?

Sena

I was surprised too, I thought metawake used to work like kola.

Penwize

It's been that way since I started playing as far as I can tell, since tell I've had that portion in my system for like forever from what I can find.  I think most people assumed it worked like kola because their system auto-wakes for them.

Accipiter

Metawake has always worked that way, ever since I got it like 10 years ago. Don't see why anyone would think differently unless you never actually tried using it to see what it did.

Decan

Oh, @Bluef

8-|

Xith

Jacen said:

Xith said:

Yeah if you have metawake it's just writhe + eat bloodroot and the totem was about as bothersome as a web tattoo. A "passive" web but still.

Except that, you know, all the monks in the room get a free AXK because you're also prone from sleeping.

Yes and mickey looping is great if you have an allied serpent in the room? Oooh and hangedman is super deadly if there's also someone to impale in the room. Oh and deadeyes bleed is effective if you have an alchemist handy.

Now your turn!

Jacen

Accipiter said:

Metawake has always worked that way, ever since I got it like 10 years ago. Don't see why anyone would think differently unless you never actually tried using it to see what it did.

I always assumed it was an unstrippable kola, in the sense that sleep-inducing attacks wouldn't strip it away ( while def-stripping attacks would). I didn't run into too many enemy totems as a Hashani though :P

Decan

When people dont know that metawake is automatic, it makes me think they have never played the game without a premade system. Probably just me though.

Sena

Decan said:

When people dont know that metawake is automatic, it makes me think they have never played the game without a premade system. Probably just me though.

Or they never really fought/raided much, or didn't bother with metawake.

Synbios

I thought metawake was the cure for the non-existent metasleep ability.

Metasleep - puts the player behind the character to sleep. Only metawake cures him/her of the affliction. That, or metadeath.

Metadeath - instantly slays the player behind the character. Only metarezz can resurrect him/her.

Metarezz - revives the player from metadeath. Requires 2000 metadevotion, metaessence, or metakarma.

Bluef

Cooper said:

You're wrong, though, no matter how many times you repeat yourself. You're only right on the off chance the person is at completely full endurance and the fully rested message wakes them up instead of the wake command, which will be the case so infrequently it's not really worth mentioning.

Bluef is almost always at full endurance. The ONLY time she burns it is when she's in dragon. Even if I try to burn it, she regens it so quickly because there is no drain that it makes sleeping for any reason (even Order roleplay) pretty much impossible, so hindering totems subsequently don't impact her much. She's up and writhing before anyone can say "Enemy in!"

Edit: I have a few other characters who shall remain nameless that also are in low endurance draining classes. I see a very noticeable difference when they each hit sleep totems because of the fact that some are 99% endurance and others are more like 70-80% due to the passive draining abilities they have up or are using actively. That was my only point - that totems impact different classes differently. 

Back to the jera talk.

Bluef

Penwize said:

Metawake does not interact with the WAKE command at all, actually.  Metawake awakens you passively, without you having to enter any commands, a very short time after falling asleep (between 0.4s and 1s, roughly, but random).  Endurance levels do affect how quickly WAKE will wake you up, but that has no real bearing on metawake.

Thank you for so clearly and succinctly stating what I've been struggling to for the last 12 hours.  

Sena

Even at full endurance, waking manually usually (>75% of the time) went through before waking automatically (without metawake).

Bluef said:

Penwize said:

Metawake does not interact with the WAKE command at all, actually.  Metawake awakens you passively, without you having to enter any commands, a very short time after falling asleep (between 0.4s and 1s, roughly, but random).  Endurance levels do affect how quickly WAKE will wake you up, but that has no real bearing on metawake.

Thank you for so clearly and succinctly stating what I've been struggling to for the last 12 hours.  

You've been saying that endurance affects how fast you wake up with metawake, which is what people have been arguing against. Metawake is unrelated to the WAKE command (it wakes you up automatically after 0-1.5 seconds whether you WAKE or not), and it doesn't have multiple ticks (you said that if your endurance is lower because you've been bashing, it takes you several ticks to wake up with metawake).

Shecks

This thread couldn't be any more derailed.

When are classleads?

Decan

Sena said:

Even at full endurance, waking manually usually (>75% of the time) went through before waking automatically (without metawake).

Bluef said:

Penwize said:

Metawake does not interact with the WAKE command at all, actually.  Metawake awakens you passively, without you having to enter any commands, a very short time after falling asleep (between 0.4s and 1s, roughly, but random).  Endurance levels do affect how quickly WAKE will wake you up, but that has no real bearing on metawake.

Thank you for so clearly and succinctly stating what I've been struggling to for the last 12 hours.  

You've been saying that endurance affects how fast you wake up with metawake, which is what people have been arguing against. Metawake is unrelated to the WAKE command (it wakes you up automatically after 0-1.5 seconds whether you WAKE or not), and it doesn't have multiple ticks (you said that if your endurance is lower because you've been bashing, it takes you several ticks to wake up with metawake).


Thank you @Sena. You have always been a voice of reason.

Sena

Shecks said:

When are classleads?

I wouldn't expect them sooner than 3 months from now. With lots of huge changes (multiclass, tradeskill split/changes, weapon/forging redesign) on the way though, it's pretty hard to predict. It could be a lot longer, holding off on classleads until after all the changes are in, or it could be a lot sooner, if some change goes through in the next month or so and they want a round of classleads to get it balanced and tweaked right away. They could also have a sort of "partial classleads" like they did when alchemists came in, accepting proposals related only to the new changes.

Accipiter

@sena Bluef said "If someone has perfect endurance, which is entirely possible given that many classes do not have abilities high in endurance drain, you might get hit, might fall asleep for about a millisecond, but you'll wake right back up - especially if you have metawake already locked and loaded."

The metawake part is a postscript, it will happen no matter what endurance you are at but that doesn't negate the preceding statements that were about when metawake is not active.

Sena

@Accipiter @Bluef I posted the results of my sleep testing here, if you want to discuss it more that's a better place for it.

Bluef

@Sena - Cool, thanks. I'll check it out later today. I have some of my own tests I can toss up there, issue and bug replies I can toss up there related to it, including a conversation with Lady Valnurana. Now to find them!

Xith

Sena said:

Shecks said:

When are classleads?

I wouldn't expect them sooner than 3 months from now. With lots of huge changes (multiclass, tradeskill split/changes, weapon/forging redesign) on the way though, it's pretty hard to predict. It could be a lot longer, holding off on classleads until after all the changes are in, or it could be a lot sooner, if some change goes through in the next month or so and they want a round of classleads to get it balanced and tweaked right away. They could also have a sort of "partial classleads" like they did when alchemists came in, accepting proposals related only to the new changes.

Tbh we maybe need another approach to classleads. I don't know what exactly but even a classlead forum to keep these things elsewhere during the classlead "off-season". (Not that one exists behind the scenes, of course)

Aerek

I use Notepad for that.