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Monk or Runewarden

AsamiAsami Member Posts: 7
I've been reading threads and searching the forums for information on these two classes. I believe I have te gist of what they each offer, but would appreciate a bit more information. 

1. Between armor, forging or buying weapons, venoms, and inks, how time-consuming is runewarden upkeep? Monks only seem to need armor (healing items beyond mention). 

2. I understand Tekura is a large part of a standard monk's combat abilities. Does a STR monk rarely use Telepathy, due to low INT? Is there an ideal balanced monk stat-wise that can deal lots of damage while still effectively hindering with Telepathy?

3. Both seem to be "prep-based" classes, but which would be best for a beginner if a "beginner's class" can even exist in a game like this?

4. I see 'artied monk' mentioned often, but I rarely see talk of artied runewarden. Is runewarden a class that can compete in higher tiers of combat without artefacts? Can monk? Thank you.

Comments

  • AchillesAchilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,517 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2014
    Very spot on answers by @Jovolo.  Will just add a couple more things

    1) Would roll horkval if you are comfortable being an insectoid.  LEAP is a great racial trait for a monk who otherwise can be blocked by a number of classes.

    2) Most monks roll high INT for higher damage for kai chokes, while other abilities like enfeeble at flat % based regardless of INT.  Monks are one of the few classes that are scalable in either builds which is artied monk is among the most potent.

    3) Monk a lot easier for a true novice, Runewardens are ICly expensive, chivalry is pretty terrible unless you are trans (you'll also need to set aside 100 lessons for rapier proficiency).  On the low-mid tier, a Runewarden with solid rapiers can kill a lot of people without needing a real prep but at the higher end they only have a couple of kill options that are pretty defendable.  In groups, both are useful, but you'll get way more kills as a monk, even unartied because they possess 2 of the 3 best prone attack skills (axekick and backbreaker)

    4) At the highest level, affliction and INT based classes have the highest ceiling because regardless of how much health/arties your opponent has, your instant kill prep remains the same or your attacks scale better because of DPS modifiers like collars or diadems are available.  This doesn't apply as much to monk or runewardens because neither has a true instant kill unless you count level 3 torso damage.  One more thing to consider, Runewardens only need to trans Runelore and Chivalry, forging is optional in most cases.  Monks are one of the only classes that has 3 combat skill sets (would rank them tekura, kaido, telepathy in terms of importance for 1v1 combat).

    image
    DecanAsamiDestanAisling
  • AsamiAsami Member Posts: 7
    Thank you very much for the answers. They've helped me make a decision.

    You both seem to say that monk isn't viable at all viable in high-tier PvP, at least without artefacts, since killing via damage is less of an option at that point. Does that mean monk is essentially less versatile than runewarden when it comes to skill? That there's ceiling to how far a monk can go?

    I'm putting the cart before the horse here, but I'm curious.
  • NellaundraNellaundra Member Posts: 1,556 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It really comes down to raw health for Monk.  Their preps and such still work, but they don't have a normal instakill, it just hurts a LOT.  So that causes problems with people with a combination of super high level and the health boosting arties.  Knights have less of a problem with this, because disembowel does a flat percentage of the target's health as damage, along with more damage on top of that.
    image
    Asami
  • AsamiAsami Member Posts: 7
    Sorry, one last question about runewardens: are they similar to monks and should go STR spec?
  • CooperCooper IowaMember Posts: 5,075 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yes, but you need some con too.

    Xoran Vanquisher, Dwarf Brawler, Human Man-at-Arms, Rajamala Executioner are what I would suggest.

    Asami
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    If you are new and want to learn about the game, and don't want to buy arties (yet), you should go runewarden, between the two choices you gave.  There are other options on the table, too.

    Monk is only good artied, and requires essentially no understanding of the game beyond how to break legs.
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
  • JhaeliJhaeli Member Posts: 541 @ - Epic Achaean
    I'd like to point out that there are Houses built around teaching Knight combat if you're feeling intimidated by the learning curve. The Maldaathi and the Wardens are excellent choices for Runewarden and can help mitigate the gold sink by giving you access to House forgers, etc.

    "Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to? You will never find that [everlasting] life for which you are looking. When the gods created man they allotted to him death, but life they retained in their own keeping. As for you, Gilgamesh, fill your belly with good things; day and night, night and day, dance and be merry, feast and rejoice. Let your clothes be fresh, bathe yourself in water, cherish the little child that holds your hand, and make your wife happy in your embrace; for this too is the lot of man." 

    KyrraAradorIsaiah
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It really comes down to raw health for Monk.  Their preps and such still work, but they don't have a normal instakill, it just hurts a LOT.  So that causes problems with people with a combination of super high level and the health boosting arties.  Knights have less of a problem with this, because disembowel does a flat percentage of the target's health as damage, along with more damage on top of that.
    Well, BBT's the same damage type as DSB, it just hurts less. Conversely, it's easier to pull off. I honestly think Monk's more viable if you're very good, than any knight bar infernal, because you've more options (assuming at least tri-trans). That said, against bigger people, you need more skills as a Runewarden (riding, for one, as well as weaponry and avoidance, at the very least), which ends up being more expensive.
    Hasar
  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,518 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Eld is right.  DSB is typeless and not reducible except by a few damage reduction methods (which are blanket reductions).  BBT is blunt and reducible by a whole lot of things, including simple armour.
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Huh. I've heard BBT's unblockable from a lot of people. Those liars :(
  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,518 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Anedhel said:
    Huh. I've heard BBT's unblockable from a lot of people. Those liars :(
    I wish, that would solve so many problems for unartied monks, and somewhat balance out their finishers against high-tank targets.  It'd be a lot easier to balance BBT doing the same damage to everyone, instead of 60% to one person and 40% to another.
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Anedhel said:
    Huh. I've heard BBT's unblockable from a lot of people. Those liars :(
    Unartied monk vs knight would be viable (or much more so) if that were the case.
    image
  • WessuxWessux ChattanoogaMember Posts: 510 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Jhaeli said:

    I'd like to point out that there are Houses built around teaching Knight combat if you're feeling intimidated by the learning curve. The Maldaathi and the Wardens are excellent choices for Runewarden and can help mitigate the gold sink by giving you access to House forgers, etc.

    The Maldaathi is an excellent choice.

    Ftfy
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
    Arador
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Joining a Knight specific House is a great help. Not just to mitigate cost (which they do brilliantly) but also in the Maldaathi case (not sure about Wardens) by giving you a step by step approach to learning combat and having people around always willing to teach.

    Also on the point of weapons, I would not say a decent set will cost you 100 credits. Ruined are wonderful for turning mediocre weapons into decent ones and decent ones into amazing ones so you will spend less than any other knight class to get decent weapons. Combine that with House forger pricing and you can get a really nice at for a bargain.

    WessuxJhaeli
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