Monk or Runewarden

Asami

I've been reading threads and searching the forums for information on these two classes. I believe I have te gist of what they each offer, but would appreciate a bit more information. 

1. Between armor, forging or buying weapons, venoms, and inks, how time-consuming is runewarden upkeep? Monks only seem to need armor (healing items beyond mention). 

2. I understand Tekura is a large part of a standard monk's combat abilities. Does a STR monk rarely use Telepathy, due to low INT? Is there an ideal balanced monk stat-wise that can deal lots of damage while still effectively hindering with Telepathy?

3. Both seem to be "prep-based" classes, but which would be best for a beginner if a "beginner's class" can even exist in a game like this?

4. I see 'artied monk' mentioned often, but I rarely see talk of artied runewarden. Is runewarden a class that can compete in higher tiers of combat without artefacts? Can monk? Thank you.

Jovolo

1) Runewarden is much more cost intensive than Monk. The armour for a Runewarden takes a much longer time to make than a Monk's leather armour, while costing more in commodities needed to forge it. Runewarden's need to purchase weapons to use their main class abilities with, and their effectiveness in both combat and hunting scales very closely with the quality of their weapons (typically rapiers). 

2) Tekura is a large part of it, yes. Monk's can be utilized quite well in both STR or INT specializations. A balance of the two only -really- works that well when you can afford artefacts to achieve previous base STR or INT spec levels. If you go for a balanced spec you'll find that you have more diversity, but you'll be mediocre at everything and lack ways to kill. Constitution is not that important for a Monk, you benefit a lot more from being a STR or INT spec. For a beginner, you will want to choose the STR spec - You will hunt faster, and do more damage with your primary skill, which is the first one you will likely transcend.

3) Monk is best for a beginner's class. Runewarden takes a very specific mindset to be effective with (patience) and you need to be quite skilled to do well with it at a higher level. Monk also preps significantly faster.

4) Runewarden can compete in higher tiers just fine without artefacts - the problem is, you need decent weapons that will probably cost you around 100cr for the pair. Monk, honestly, can't compete- at least, not with no artefacts at all. You can tear through low and mid-tier with some practise and hunting to a decent level. You won't put a dent in anyone considered high-tier. You simply won't do enough damage.

Achilles

Very spot on answers by @Jovolo.  Will just add a couple more things

1) Would roll horkval if you are comfortable being an insectoid.  LEAP is a great racial trait for a monk who otherwise can be blocked by a number of classes.

2) Most monks roll high INT for higher damage for kai chokes, while other abilities like enfeeble at flat % based regardless of INT.  Monks are one of the few classes that are scalable in either builds which is artied monk is among the most potent.

3) Monk a lot easier for a true novice, Runewardens are ICly expensive, chivalry is pretty terrible unless you are trans (you'll also need to set aside 100 lessons for rapier proficiency).  On the low-mid tier, a Runewarden with solid rapiers can kill a lot of people without needing a real prep but at the higher end they only have a couple of kill options that are pretty defendable.  In groups, both are useful, but you'll get way more kills as a monk, even unartied because they possess 2 of the 3 best prone attack skills (axekick and backbreaker)

4) At the highest level, affliction and INT based classes have the highest ceiling because regardless of how much health/arties your opponent has, your instant kill prep remains the same or your attacks scale better because of DPS modifiers like collars or diadems are available.  This doesn't apply as much to monk or runewardens because neither has a true instant kill unless you count level 3 torso damage.  One more thing to consider, Runewardens only need to trans Runelore and Chivalry, forging is optional in most cases.  Monks are one of the only classes that has 3 combat skill sets (would rank them tekura, kaido, telepathy in terms of importance for 1v1 combat).

Asami

Thank you very much for the answers. They've helped me make a decision.

You both seem to say that monk isn't viable at all viable in high-tier PvP, at least without artefacts, since killing via damage is less of an option at that point. Does that mean monk is essentially less versatile than runewarden when it comes to skill? That there's ceiling to how far a monk can go?

I'm putting the cart before the horse here, but I'm curious.

Nellaundra

It really comes down to raw health for Monk.  Their preps and such still work, but they don't have a normal instakill, it just hurts a LOT.  So that causes problems with people with a combination of super high level and the health boosting arties.  Knights have less of a problem with this, because disembowel does a flat percentage of the target's health as damage, along with more damage on top of that.

Asami

Sorry, one last question about runewardens: are they similar to monks and should go STR spec?

Cooper

Yes, but you need some con too.

Xoran Vanquisher, Dwarf Brawler, Human Man-at-Arms, Rajamala Executioner are what I would suggest.

Shecks

If you are new and want to learn about the game, and don't want to buy arties (yet), you should go runewarden, between the two choices you gave.  There are other options on the table, too.

Monk is only good artied, and requires essentially no understanding of the game beyond how to break legs.

Jhaeli

I'd like to point out that there are Houses built around teaching Knight combat if you're feeling intimidated by the learning curve. The Maldaathi and the Wardens are excellent choices for Runewarden and can help mitigate the gold sink by giving you access to House forgers, etc.

Anedhel

Nellaundra said:

It really comes down to raw health for Monk.  Their preps and such still work, but they don't have a normal instakill, it just hurts a LOT.  So that causes problems with people with a combination of super high level and the health boosting arties.  Knights have less of a problem with this, because disembowel does a flat percentage of the target's health as damage, along with more damage on top of that.

Well, BBT's the same damage type as DSB, it just hurts less. Conversely, it's easier to pull off. I honestly think Monk's more viable if you're very good, than any knight bar infernal, because you've more options (assuming at least tri-trans). That said, against bigger people, you need more skills as a Runewarden (riding, for one, as well as weaponry and avoidance, at the very least), which ends up being more expensive.

Eld

Anedhel said:

Nellaundra said:

It really comes down to raw health for Monk.  Their preps and such still work, but they don't have a normal instakill, it just hurts a LOT.  So that causes problems with people with a combination of super high level and the health boosting arties.  Knights have less of a problem with this, because disembowel does a flat percentage of the target's health as damage, along with more damage on top of that.

Well, BBT's the same damage type as DSB, it just hurts less. Conversely, it's easier to pull off. I honestly think Monk's more viable if you're very good, than any knight bar infernal, because you've more options (assuming at least tri-trans). That said, against bigger people, you need more skills as a Runewarden (riding, for one, as well as weaponry and avoidance, at the very least), which ends up being more expensive.

Fairly sure BBT is blunt while DSB is typeless.

Penwize

Eld is right.  DSB is typeless and not reducible except by a few damage reduction methods (which are blanket reductions).  BBT is blunt and reducible by a whole lot of things, including simple armour.

Anedhel

Huh. I've heard BBT's unblockable from a lot of people. Those liars

Penwize

Anedhel said:

Huh. I've heard BBT's unblockable from a lot of people. Those liars

I wish, that would solve so many problems for unartied monks, and somewhat balance out their finishers against high-tank targets.  It'd be a lot easier to balance BBT doing the same damage to everyone, instead of 60% to one person and 40% to another.

Jacen

Anedhel said:

Huh. I've heard BBT's unblockable from a lot of people. Those liars

Unartied monk vs knight would be viable (or much more so) if that were the case.

Wessux

Jhaeli said:

I'd like to point out that there are Houses built around teaching Knight combat if you're feeling intimidated by the learning curve. The Maldaathi and the Wardens are excellent choices for Runewarden and can help mitigate the gold sink by giving you access to House forgers, etc.

The Maldaathi is an excellent choice.

Ftfy

Arador

Joining a Knight specific House is a great help. Not just to mitigate cost (which they do brilliantly) but also in the Maldaathi case (not sure about Wardens) by giving you a step by step approach to learning combat and having people around always willing to teach.

Also on the point of weapons, I would not say a decent set will cost you 100 credits. Ruined are wonderful for turning mediocre weapons into decent ones and decent ones into amazing ones so you will spend less than any other knight class to get decent weapons. Combine that with House forger pricing and you can get a really nice at for a bargain.