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Hypersight Idea

ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
edited January 2014 in The Golden Dais of Creation

Hypersight is useless, and I thought of a cool way to make it have a useful purpose.

Allow it to show when various actions that don't normally have third-person messages take place.

This could include things like hidden passive curing visible, for a pretty high mana & willpower drain.


Just an idea.
"Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
Post edited by Sarapis on
Achimrst

Comments

  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,243 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The idea is worth classleading specifics.
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    From what I remember Hypersight isn't entirely useless, but it's pretty situationally useful (fighting certain classes, don't have lifevision). Honestly, the proposed change doesn't make it any less situationally useful, it just changes what those situations are. Either way, this is definitely something that should be classleaded; the ability to see passive curing gets brought up a hell of a lot, but has still yet to be implemented.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's situational. But definitely helps a little with some classes, serpent in particular. HOWEVER, it would be terrific to let it also show evades. It's not like it changes the fact that they escaped like Houdini.

    As for the offensive side and seeing passive cures, not a bad idea, but maybe worth a separate skill from hypersight.

    Mana drain to let you see demon syphon = fair trade :P
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    Seftin
  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited January 2014
    What about a delayed show evades?

    As in, if you are still in the room, you see where they evaded at the same time as they recover balance, or just slightly after?
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    XithSeftin
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2014
    Showing Evade would defeat the purpose of Evade.  You're no longer evading.

    With passive cures (and many other unshown abilities) you are still accomplishing the goal 100% (in that example, you still cure just fine), it just shows people that you did it.  If I wanted to move and let you see where I was going, I'd just move.  Hence, that specific thing might not fly.  If classleads -were- to discuss it, the list of things that would be shown should be run by that class' classlead if not others who have experience in that class, to make sure its not interfering too much. 

    To my knowledge, there are no Serpent abilities that don't have third person messages (aside from hypnosis and illusion, which both already have defences just for them.), so it may or may not apply to some classes.
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,543 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Hypersight already reveals some actions normally hidden by shrouding.  That includes shrouded writhing, getting, etc.  That's its purpose.  Whether that's useful to you or not depends on if you want to see those actions.
    Sylvance
  • KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2014
    Showing Evade would defeat the purpose of Evade.  You're no longer evading.

    With passive cures (and many other unshown abilities) you are still accomplishing the goal 100% (in that example, you still cure just fine), it just shows people that you did it.  If I wanted to move and let you see where I was going, I'd just move.  Hence, that specific thing might not fly.  If classleads -were- to discuss it, the list of things that would be shown should be run by that class' classlead if not others who have experience in that class, to make sure its not interfering too much. 

    To my knowledge, there are no Serpent abilities that don't have third person messages (aside from hypnosis and illusion, which both already have defences just for them.), so it may or may not apply to some classes.
    Not entirely true here. If you don't want people seeing you move, you use cloak. Evade also let's you move past walls, avoid triggers mindnet, and avoid triggering hostile runes and totems. Being able to see evade doesn't ruin it's functionality in the slightest. After all, knights can engage you and strike you when you evade out, knowing you've left.
    Post edited by Kuy on
    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
    RakonSeftin
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kuy said:
    If you don't want people seeing you move, you use cloak.
    Hypersight (as well as lifevision) lets you see movement through cloak, so this doesn't really work as an argument in favour of hypersight seeing evade as well.
    Kuy
  • KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Note: I'm not for or against this change.  Just pointing out that evade isn't crazy powerful just because someone can't see when you move.
    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
  • RomRom Member Posts: 525 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited January 2014
    @Kuy
    Also, for reference, when your target evades you automatically disengage ("ease off"), not lash out at them. Same functionality for what you mentioned though.

    It's possible you get the ease off message and they still take damage, never asked but I doubt it.

    Also, I feel that Hypersight showing passive curing would be an awesome change, given a classlead round as suggested.
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  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    Rom said:
    @Kuy
    Also, for reference, when your target evades you automatically disengage ("ease off"), not lash out at them. Same functionality for what you mentioned though.

    It's possible you get the ease off message and they still take damage, never asked but I doubt it..
    You don't take damage.
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  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    Kuy said:
    Note: I'm not for or against this change.  Just pointing out that evade isn't crazy powerful just because someone can't see when you move.
    Yes it is. Which is why it'll be a rather expensive artefact when they finish moving serpent skills to arties.
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    Kuy
  • KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Rom said:
    @Kuy
    Also, for reference, when your target evades you automatically disengage ("ease off"), not lash out at them. Same functionality for what you mentioned though.

    It's possible you get the ease off message and they still take damage, never asked but I doubt it.

    Also, I feel that Hypersight showing passive curing would be an awesome change, given a classlead round as suggested.
    Oh?  Is it a different message?  Dalran evading out of the room always gave me the same proc message as someone leaving and my striking them.  It's how I knew to lunge!

    As to seeing passive curing, is it necessary given the recent change to voyria?
    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    Kuy said:
    Rom said:
    @Kuy
    Also, for reference, when your target evades you automatically disengage ("ease off"), not lash out at them. Same functionality for what you mentioned though.

    It's possible you get the ease off message and they still take damage, never asked but I doubt it.

    Also, I feel that Hypersight showing passive curing would be an awesome change, given a classlead round as suggested.
    Oh?  Is it a different message?  Dalran evading out of the room always gave me the same proc message as someone leaving and my striking them.  It's how I knew to lunge!

    As to seeing passive curing, is it necessary given the recent change to voyria?
    Are you sure he wasn't just walking out cloaked?
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  • KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited January 2014
    Trevize said:
    Kuy said:
    Rom said:
    @Kuy
    Also, for reference, when your target evades you automatically disengage ("ease off"), not lash out at them. Same functionality for what you mentioned though.

    It's possible you get the ease off message and they still take damage, never asked but I doubt it.

    Also, I feel that Hypersight showing passive curing would be an awesome change, given a classlead round as suggested.
    Oh?  Is it a different message?  Dalran evading out of the room always gave me the same proc message as someone leaving and my striking them.  It's how I knew to lunge!

    As to seeing passive curing, is it necessary given the recent change to voyria?
    Are you sure he wasn't just walking out cloaked?
    Yes, because he wasn't hitting my runes.

    Edit: The only time I got a "disengage" message was when he evaded over an icewall.
    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Evade doesn't trigger engage, but does trigger the disengage message, so the Knight will know whether or not you've evaded out (and, if there isn't a wall in that direction, lunge will take them right back into the room with you).
    KuyTrevizeRakon
  • KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Antonius said:
    Evade doesn't trigger engage, but does trigger the disengage message, so the Knight will know whether or not you've evaded out (and, if there isn't a wall in that direction, lunge will take them right back into the room with you).
    That explains the situation quite perfectly!
    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
    Trevize
  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    Antonius said:
    Evade doesn't trigger engage, but does trigger the disengage message, so the Knight will know whether or not you've evaded out (and, if there isn't a wall in that direction, lunge will take them right back into the room with you).
    Interesting. Did not know that. Was this a recent (last 2-3 years) change?
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  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,304 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I can't remember it ever being different

    Trevize
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,926 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I think it's actually pretty recent (within the last few years), but it's possible I just never paid attention to it before.
    Trevize
  • RakonRakon Member Posts: 267 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited January 2014
    It's not a recent change, it's been this way for as long as I've played a knight character. 

    4915h, 4490m CXEK|P|HeSF -<11:46:43:602>  
    You move in to engage Dontarion.
    4915h, 4440m CXeK|P|HeSF -<11:46:43:647>  [-50m] 
    You have recovered your wind and are breathing normally once again.
    4915h, 4440m CXeK|P|HeSF -<11:46:44:072>  

    4915h, 4440m CXeK|P|HeSF -<11:46:44:738>  
    Wailing in despair and torment, a hideous abomination limps to the down.
    4915h, 4440m CXeK|P|HeSF -<11:46:45:125>  
    You have recovered equilibrium.
    4915h, 4440m CXEK|P|HeSF -<11:46:45:657>  
    You drop back and ease the engagement.
    4915h, 4440m CXEK|P|HeSF -<11:46:45:792>  
    dsl dontarion   
    Nothing can be seen here by that name.
    4915h, 4440m CXEK|P|HeSF -<11:46:46:131>  


    ---------

    You move in to engage Dontarion.
    4712h, 4375m CxeK|P|HeSF -<11:46:47:034>  [-50m] 

    4712h, 4375m CxeK|P|HeSF -<11:46:47:557>  

    4960h, 4375m CxeK|P|HeSF -<11:46:47:839>  [+248h] 

    4960h, 4375m CxeK|P|HeSF -<11:46:48:042>  
    Dontarion stands up.
    4960h, 4375m CxeK|P|HeSF -<11:46:48:078>  
    Dontarion says, "Duanathar."
    You lash out at Dontarion as he turns to flee.
    Dontarion is swiftly carried into the skies and out of sight by a pair of 
    eagle's wings.
    4960h, 4375m CxeK|P|HeSF -<11:46:48:186>  


  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    An artefact to show passives and similar things would work too, but I already paid 291 credits for Vision, which is a relatively useless major skill set.

    IRT passives, I wouldn't go so far as showing -what- they cure, just a room message similar to dagaz, etc, which just shows that -something- was cured.
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Vision is filled with useful abilities, in and out of combat. 291 credits for softfocus, contemplate, alertness, mapsight, vigilance, telesense, and all the other utility it gives is a pretty good deal, compared to artefact prices.
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited January 2014
    @kuy re: Voyria.

    The voyria change is neat, but is countered by a balanceless, mana-free, instant ability (sip). To the average level fighter this might mean little, but the only thing between a skilled pvp-er and ignoring that change is a vial and about 500 gold refill of immunity. Obviously that's not the case if a venom lock is achieved, but outside of that, Voyria does essentially nothing.

    @Sena I said "relatively useless", not "useless", especially after the nerf to farsee (everyone owning veils).
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
  • KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh... sipping has balance, though.

    As a serpent, this is all the change you really need. Passive curing is tough to deal with, but it's not impossible. All you need to do is lock them for ~2 seconds, stick voyria, then kill them. The voyria will prevent the lock from being cured out of, and if you don't kill them between voyria being cured and the passive breaking the lock, you probably wouldn't have killed them anyway.
    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
  • SantarSantar Member Posts: 2,382 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kuy said:
    Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh... sipping has balance, though.
    I'm not going to comment on the actual topic, but the above is incorrect(in relation to voyria).

    image

  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kuy said:
    Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh... sipping has balance, though. As a serpent, this is all the change you really need. Passive curing is tough to deal with, but it's not impossible. All you need to do is lock them for ~2 seconds, stick voyria, then kill them. The voyria will prevent the lock from being cured out of, and if you don't kill them between voyria being cured and the passive breaking the lock, you probably wouldn't have killed them anyway.
    @Shecks already said that voyria works for this once you already have a lock. His point was that voyria doesn't help much against passive curing in the process of getting a lock in the first place.
    Shecks
  • KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Iocun said:
    Kuy said:
    Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh... sipping has balance, though. As a serpent, this is all the change you really need. Passive curing is tough to deal with, but it's not impossible. All you need to do is lock them for ~2 seconds, stick voyria, then kill them. The voyria will prevent the lock from being cured out of, and if you don't kill them between voyria being cured and the passive breaking the lock, you probably wouldn't have killed them anyway.
    @Shecks already said that voyria works for this once you already have a lock. His point was that voyria doesn't help much against passive curing in the process of getting a lock in the first place.
    Gotchya!  Early mornings are painful.
    [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
  • ShecksShecks Member Posts: 626 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Who would be the classlead for something in Vision  and/or has this already been suggested/discussed with this person or people?
    "Ignore the boos.  They usually come from the cheap seats."
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sounds like you're asking about a classlead as a person. That system was changed a long time ago, I don't think there are class experts anymore. It's just a quarterly submission pool of ideas that used to happen once every 3 months or so until Bal'met ate all our reports.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
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