Titles

Wynedere

Jules: 

I'd love it if titles only showed in honours, and on letters, news posts, etc... It's been discussed over the years, and we've actually moved in that direction.  A first step might be to allow them to be toggled, if there's a vocal contingent that wants to keep them more visible.  

This, a thousand times, this. 

Penwize

At the very least, please remove them from the room description player lists.  When I LOOK or SQUINT, I want to see the players who are in that room fairly quickly. 

This is particularly important in LoS combat, where when squinting I need to know the actual targettable names of the serpents shooting me from that direction, and I need to be able to pick them out pretty quickly amidst LoS sniping spam.  Honestly, without my scripts that strip titles from the room description, I'd have a hard time doing so, and they don't always work because some people change titles like they change pants.

Shirszae

I honestly would rather they make it toggle-able. Much like brief/verbose descriptions. Something like brief/full names.

Sarapis

So, what are the places besides room descs you don't like seeing the titles? 

In rooms, I agree. In fact, I've also considered a config option to simply appends the contents of WHO HERE to a room desc, omitting the player titles, wield status, special look messages, etc. That may be robbing a bit too much personality though. Just removing titles from room looks might be the better route. 

A small dank cave

It's small. It's dank. A pile of smelly guano rests on the floor. A sign saying, "Do Not Eat" has been erected.
You see the following people here: Penwize, Sarapis, Wyndere.


(Where else does seeing titles bother you on a practical level?)

Iocun

I'd be against removing stuff like what they're wielding/riding on, etc., as that would make it seem so much more mechanical and dry. Removing the titles though, I'd be perfectly happy with.

Wynedere

No titles preferred in: cwho, clwho, es (arena), look, says, tells, pwho, seeking abilities that show rooms and titles like veilglance. 

If novices need to know titles in order to keep a sense of respect in addressing elder members of orgs, 'honors' would be enough. 

Edit: We should keep wielded items for combat totem prop purposes. 

Penwize

There are actually a bunch of bits of information that are useful in the LOOK description for players.  Whether they're mounted or not (and what they're riding), what they're wielding (propping a totem? oh no!), if deliverance is up, if they're prone/sitting/sleeping/meditating, if they're summoning a spark, if they're shrouded or hidden, if they're in dragonform, that sort of thing.  I don't think I'd want to lose all that information you can get at a quick glance, but making it more readable for people by removing/toggling titles would go a long way I think. 

Penwize

Wynedere said:

No titles preferred in: cwho, clwho, es (arena), look, says, tells, pwho, seeking abilities that show rooms and titles like veilglance. 

If novices need to know titles in order to keep a sense of respect in addressing elder members of orgs, 'honors' would be enough. 

Edit: We should keep wielded items for combat totem prop purposes. 

I actually like them in CWHO, CLWHO and HWHO, and there are a bunch of orgs that actually rely on titles.  Seems like those are places they should be.  Tells are usually okay since you know who you sent the tell to and incoming tells don't have it. 

Wynedere

There are two reasons I dislike them on any of the who lists: Titles that contain the names of other players conflict with highlighting, and it can make scripting harder in lists such as pwho and es (arena). 

Maybe make those toggle options? 

Antonius

This is where it gets difficult. I agree that removing titles in room descriptions would be fantastic, but that the other information needs to remain. There are a lot of things listed by Wynedere that I wouldn't want to see titles removed from, including organisational WHO lists; the name is already coloured differently to the rest of the title so it's not difficult to identify. I also don't want to end up with five new CONFIG options to cover all the possible variations, because that starts to get a bit absurd.

Exelethril

Truthfully, I feel like the removal of titles via "QL/Look" is going way overboard. There are dumb titles around but I think some of the personality present when in the company of other players in a room is partially lent from the titles that players may or may not carry. I feel like this might be the first step down a less messy but boringly dry road - a text-game should draw from "personality" whenever possible.

Maybe implement stricter title laws instead of taking things to the extreme.

Kresslack

Penwize said:

Wynedere said:

No titles preferred in: cwho, clwho, es (arena), look, says, tells, pwho, seeking abilities that show rooms and titles like veilglance. 

If novices need to know titles in order to keep a sense of respect in addressing elder members of orgs, 'honors' would be enough. 

Edit: We should keep wielded items for combat totem prop purposes. 

I actually like them in CWHO, CLWHO and HWHO, and there are a bunch of orgs that actually rely on titles.  Seems like those are places they should be.  Tells are usually okay since you know who you sent the tell to and incoming tells don't have it. 

This. 

Antonius

Exelethril said:

Truthfully, I feel like the removal of titles via "QL/Look" is going way overboard. There are dumb titles around but I think some of the personality present when in the company of other players in a room is partially lent from the titles that players may or may not carry. I feel like this might be the first step down a less messy but boringly dry road - a text-game should draw from "personality" whenever possible.

Maybe implement stricter title laws instead of taking things to the extreme.

For most people this has nothing to do with the quality of the titles, even if that's the thread where the initial comments were made. It's about being able to easily get access to information when you need it, and that's not currently possible with titles in room descriptions.

Nim

I like titles in WHO because the name still stands out. I think I'd like titles in [Q]L/SQUINT/etc. if it worked that way too.

Shirszae

Wynedere said:

No titles preferred in: cwho, clwho, es (arena), look, says, tells, pwho, seeking abilities that show rooms and titles like veilglance. 

If novices need to know titles in order to keep a sense of respect in addressing elder members of orgs, 'honors' would be enough. 

Edit: We should keep wielded items for combat totem prop purposes. 

I sincerely feel like this is going overboard. Remove them from look, tells and says. That ought be enough. I actually like the way they are everywhere else. 

Jacen

Titles provide a lot of the immediate information that you would normally be able to immediately discern by looking at someone without consciously doing so. Remove them from from those areas where it has combat implications (QL, SQUINT, GLANCE) but nowhere else. I'd even say make it toggleable on QL.

The only problem I really see with the system as-is is the inclusion of X person's name in Y's title. Don't get me wrong, the RP of it is great (Jacen, Squire of Penwize, Ward of Wynedere, etc, etc) but it does cause significant problems in combat, so keep it in areas where it doesn't have combat implications.

Exelethril

Antonius said:

Truthfully, I feel like the removal of titles via "QL/Look" is going way overboard. There are dumb titles around but I think some of the personality present when in the company of other players in a room is partially lent from the titles that players may or may not carry. I feel like this might be the first step down a less messy but boringly dry road - a text-game should draw from "personality" whenever possible.

Maybe implement stricter title laws instead of taking things to the extreme.

For most people this has nothing to do with the quality of the titles, even if that's the thread where the initial comments were made. It's about being able to easily get access to information when you need it, and that's not currently possible with titles in room descriptions.

Yus, I see your point now. Would be awesome to have a toggleable option to turn titles on or off, one option for raid combat and one option for regular moments.

Jonathin

I hate titles.

Just make generic titles according to city/house and delete the rest.

Thanks.

Jonners

Remove titles and add race/gender?   [-O<

Jules

I like reading people's titles, and don't think they should go away or all be boring and standard (although mine is both by my intent, and my organization) just would be easier if they weren't in the way when things are spammy.

Reihaneh

I love seeing titles. Maybe having the ability to toggle them on/off except in honors would be a good compromise?

Nizaris

I say, personally, keep them on LOOK, discard them (and wielding) on SQUINT.

It's nice to have titles show up on LOOK for RP, especially in a place like Mhaldor where titles are (fairly well) regulated, and important for RP purposes (you don't ever call someone by their name in Mhaldor, but only by their title).

As for squint -- it would be nice for LoS purposes to remove titles and wielding. There's quite a few people who have others' names in their titles (Disciple of <name>, Squire of <name>), and this makes it a bit harder to target for LoS (even with a highlighting script). It gets even worse when someone walks around wielding a shield with someone else's CoA on it (frankly, I feel that this is abuse of the system), as well as has a <Something> of <name> in their title.

Penwize

Nizaris said:

I say, personally, keep them on LOOK, discard them (and wielding) on SQUINT.

It's nice to have titles show up on LOOK for RP, especially in a place like Mhaldor where titles are (fairly well) regulated, and important for RP purposes (you don't ever call someone by their name in Mhaldor, but only by their title).

As for squint -- it would be nice for LoS purposes to remove titles and wielding. There's quite a few people who have others' names in their titles (Disciple of <name>, Squire of <name>), and this makes it a bit harder to target for LoS (even with a highlighting script). It gets even worse when someone walks around wielding a shield with someone else's CoA on it (frankly, I feel that this is abuse of the system), as well as has a <Something> of <name> in their title.

I think the same reasons for having squint changed/toggled (toggled is likely better) apply for LOOK too.  In melee, plenty of things are important in LOOK that things like SHOW WHO HERE don't show.  Whether someone's dead/a soul or not is a good example.

Silas

Just removing titles (not wielding/mounted/etc.) from ql/squint/[veil]glance/observe is all that's needed. Maybe also highlight people's names a different colour on those displays like they are on who lists so that's easier to filter out.

Jacen

Just make the QL part toggleable. I want to see people's titles without having to honors everyone. I understand the combat implications and I believe you should have that option, but like I said earlier, you subconsciously get a lot of information via titles that you don't get on first glance in game, but in reality you would immediately notice by their appearance. Or at least, for like 85% of the titles out there.

Athrax

Taking titles out of HWHO would be a huge pain in the neck in some houses.

I'm cool with making ql and look titles toggleable, and removing them completely from glance and squint though.

Silas

Jacen said:

Just make the QL part toggleable. I want to see people's titles without having to honors everyone. I understand the combat implications and I believe you should have that option, but like I said earlier, you subconsciously get a lot of information via titles that you don't get on first glance in game, but in reality you would immediately notice by their appearance. Or at least, for like 85% of the titles out there.

This is a fair point. Perhaps you could remove titles from QL, since that's just a quick glance around the room, and leave them in for LOOK.

Athrax

Silas said:

Jacen said:

Just make the QL part toggleable. I want to see people's titles without having to honors everyone. I understand the combat implications and I believe you should have that option, but like I said earlier, you subconsciously get a lot of information via titles that you don't get on first glance in game, but in reality you would immediately notice by their appearance. Or at least, for like 85% of the titles out there.

This is a fair point. Perhaps you could remove titles from QL, since that's just a quick glance around the room, and leave them in for LOOK.

In that case, what's the point of changing anything at all?   Doesn't WHO HERE show all the people in the room without titles anyway?

Silas

WHO HERE doesn't show wielded totems, whether you're dead, and can't be used line of sight.

Sybilla

Athrax said:

Taking titles out of HWHO would be a huge pain in the neck in some houses.

I'm cool with making ql and look titles toggleable, and removing them completely from glance and squint though.

HWHO       - house who - same as WHO, but only for house members.

           - HWHO T will show everyone with titles.

It already works like that, no?

Santar

Don't remove them from anything.