Sentinel vs Druid

Valdus

So @Aepas made an excellent post in the What are the differences in the classes? thread that has made me think about the class and I've come up with a question I'd like the community to help me answer.

Which is the more effective class against the rest of the world - Sentinel or Druid?

For this exercise I'd like to mention a couple of things that should be considered. First, the character would have Trans skills in everything relevant. Guild skills, Survival, Evasion, Vision, Weaponry, Tattoos,  Miniskills, etc. So pretty much omnitrans I suppose. Secondly, they would have artifacts. This would include the creme de la creme. Level 3 knuckles and level 3 strength artifact for maximum Metamorphosis damage. A diadem for faster EQ recovery. In the case of the druid, level 3 Int/Collar for better Lightning, etc. Basically pimp these guys out. Assume defensive artifacts also.

So, they're both on an even playing field when concerning artifact and skill level, so the deciding factor should come down to class ability, as we're going to assume the opponents they face are of equal skill and ability.

Am I incorrect in thinking that the Sentinel would have an easier time? With much of the Druid's power being tied to their grove, the obvious strategy to fighting them is to not fight them inside it, whereas a Hunter would have much more mobility with their pets traveling with them.

What do you guys think about this hypothetical question?

Dunn

They both have good utility, but I think Sentinel wins in my book. They have a lot more options as far as 1v1 strategies go, especially with the handaxe buff and being able to be in basilisk with access to impatience. Who doesn't like traps?

Sentinels don't even -need- their woodlore pets to be effective.

Grove combat power is really negligible these days as far as fighting in it goes. They made most of the skills with combat implications portable.

The things that druid has going for it that infuriate me beyond measure are the following: flash, hydra bind.

tl;dr I've never said "Oh shit here comes a druid!" whereas I have said, aloud, "Oh shit they have a sentinel."

Achimrst

I have to say first, yes sentinels are mean in 1v1, @Rom taught me that in a rampage. Also why not Sylvan love, I'm going hunt you down now Aepas and kill you as a sylvan :P j/k

Jovolo

Sentinel. With the confidence you have in your ability to transcend the appropriate skills and also get several level three artifacts, I assume you won't have that difficult a time in getting a 242+ speed handaxe. You'll have better hindering power with ents, oculus and traps. More strategies at your disposal with very quick limb breaks, very quick affliction delivery, addiction to eat all outrifted herbs and minerals, reflexed shatter and darts against tumbling opponents. Your damage output will be huge even even without resorting to using Maul with your level three artifacts, though you can use your handaxe to set them off restoration balance and then maul lock them (This is where you break with handaxe, trip, maul right leg to mangle, maul left to break, incinerate). With serious minimal effort you can kill a lot of people as a Sentinel. A bunch of people will apply restoration without even having caloric deffed.

Both will have access to Metamorphosis, so Sentinel does not lack where Druid mainly excels. Your utility will be fine. You won't need to spend money on food, ever. You'll have track, and the ability to fly. Burrow on steroids (Which you can do in almost any condition. Always fight on the correct terrain and you can escape while quad mangled and prone).  

I would also suggest getting a Lupine bow for reflexed meteors instead of a level three intelligence artifact.

The only reason I'd ever go Druid instead of Sentinel is if I wanted a challenge, could afford a staff of illusion, and fancied it in a roleplay capacity. Otherwise, Sentinel rules the day, every day. 

Sentinel.

Mizik

Sentinel is my favorite class.

If you prefer to play a support, team engine type, then consider Druid. If you want to be a speed rapist offense machine, Sentinel.

First off, some Woodlore offense:
.8 second affs + Impatience + Disrupt!
Out of room axing! Can break limbs, can keep a target perma paralysed in los fights, two Sentinels can prone delph break, etc.
Axe grab! Free Boomerang artie
Spinning! Screw monks.
Trip! Prone break.
Campfires! Raid forever, for life.

Pets:
Fox/Wolf do more damage than handaxes do.
Badger cancels out moss tattoo, and handaxes give big bleed.
Lemming for obnoxious passive strip (including kai/shin trance, bm stances, etc)
Raven to knock off balance.
Best for last: Butterfly with passive transfix

Traps:
Alarm! Know where your targets are from anywhere on the continent - though no longer across planes, making our Icons impossible to surprise probe.
Noose for kill-shot immunity and total zone control.
Darts for raids or setting off aff based finishers.
Dustbomb/Snare for delayed writhe.

One big Sentinel con to consider:

You will spend all of your gold on venoms. All the time.


Updates for @Jovolo:

Trip now targets a leg and can break it.
Burrow requires working limbs and that one is standing.

Jovolo

I didn't know about burrow. With trip, I meant handaxe break arm, trip leg, handaxe break right, maul to mangle, etc. 

Too bad about burrow. Was that a recent change? I remember using it a few times as Magi in those situations.

Mishgul

In 1v1 i am more scared of a decked out druid than a sentinel. In raids sentinels are a little more annoying except in forests. I love being thornsprayed with vengeance up

Iocun

Fighting a sentinel means having broken limbs every couple of seconds and taking a really long time to cure them, because you can't prioritize restoration when they're freezing you

Crazily annoying hindering there. I'm really not quite sure returning needs to add so much limb damage to axes...

Anedhel

Axe is pretty crazy atm

Jovolo

Shrug. It's always been like this, people just seem to forget. The only thing that got easier was forging a 240+ handaxe, and even then it's not like there are dozens of them floating around.

Anedhel

Uh, before axes were sped up, it really wasn't the same.

ETA: Or maybe it was, and people just didn't chase balance/were shy about fighting before.
ETA2: Unless you mean pre-traits.

Jovolo

Axes themselves weren't sped up, they just made it easier across the board to get a high speed handaxe? Those handaxes were already in circulation and that speed was already attainable, so

Anedhel

ANNOUNCE NEWS #3945                                     (09/24/2013 at 17:43)  
From   : Tecton, the Terraformer
To     : Everyone
Subject: Sentinel Classlead Changes
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We're pleased to announce the release of the Sentinel classlead report, the details are as follows:

- THORNSPRAY (Woodlore) now hits all adventurers in the room.
- Woodlore users now gain a boost to RETURNING speed based upon their skill level.
- RETURNING damage, speed, and accuracy boosts are now based on the higher of your Weaponry or
Woodlore skill.
- Handaxe weapon stats have been adjusted, with higher base speed and lower damage.
 
If you encounter anything out of the ordinary, please file a BUG with as much information as
possible.

Penned by My hand on the 21st of Aeguary, in the year 636 AF.

In confess, I'm not aware of the speed bonus, but that sounds like an upgrade to me.

ETA: Doesn't matter if the skill or the stats changed, the net effect is the same? A buff's a buff.

Mizik

Back to how it was before the trait system broke it.

Valdus

Mizik has spoken!

Tekk

Mishgul said:

In 1v1 i am more scared of a decked out druid than a sentinel. In raids sentinels are a little more annoying except in forests. I love being thornsprayed with vengeance up

Can you expand as to WHY you feel this way? I've never heard anyone say this.

Anedhel

Cuz he blows up and takes a bunch of people with him!

Tekk

Mishgul said:

In 1v1 i am more scared of a decked out druid than a sentinel.

Maybe I should have clarified.

Jonners

Tekk said:

Mishgul said:

In 1v1 i am more scared of a decked out druid than a sentinel. In raids sentinels are a little more annoying except in forests. I love being thornsprayed with vengeance up

Can you expand as to WHY you feel this way? I've never heard anyone say this.

I am interested in this as well. As a non-com shopkeeper I find druid is by far the best utility class. I never really worried about combat capability. Both classes have the best bashing at levels below 90. Reflex maul iz teh shit against denizens.

Anedhel

Tekk said:

Mishgul said:

In 1v1 i am more scared of a decked out druid than a sentinel.

Maybe I should have clarified.

Sorry, I'll stop trolling you now

Asmodron

there's a difference?

Sidonia

Mizik/Jovolol covered most of the reasons why but I'm going to throw my vote in with Sentinel as well. Favourite class hands down.

Rangor

Druids got more burst damage going for them. Stack meteors, wildgrowth up, maul away ->incin when they shield.

Get a lvl 3 dirk and a druid can afflict as fast as/faster than a sentinel, but rebounding would mess up any lock attempts.

Both can use the frozen pound finisher.

sentinels got great utility/safety with traps.

Druids got great utility potential with wildgrowth/overgrowth/flash/dampen.

Both get great hindering with trumpet.

Druids got the best gank potential with gate/wildgrowth or flow/wildgrowth.

But after the sylvan changes, I'd probably go sylvan if I was gonna omni artie/trans it out.

Blujixapug

Against the entire rest of the world? I'm gonna go with druid. Snowstorm + Elusiveness OP, baybee. Not to mention bees. I'd emerge from the snow like a wraith in the night to kill people one or two at a time. Druids are basically Batman, but with blizzards in place of smoke bombs, bees in place of batarangs, and cuddly cliques in place of a tragic childhood.

Probably sentinels though, if you wanted an actual answer.

Both are extremely versatile classes. Sentinels' versatility contributes more to kills. Assets like traps and the rest of the glorious grab-bag that is Woodlore are focused towards making people die, with various degrees of preparation and thoroughness. Druid utility is much more general and team-oriented, with assets like Overgrowth, Vigour, Wildgrowth, Barrier, Rain etc.

Anedhel said:

Uh, before axes were sped up, it really wasn't the same.

Before axes were sped up they freaking stunned you. What a nightmare those dark days were.

Anedhel

I meant the difference between now and just-after-traits axes

Rom

Think everyone else covered bases pretty well. Just going to chime in that Sentinel is by far the most fun class I've played. Not sure if you actually intend on playing one of the classes though.

Asmodron

I always secretly dreamed of being a Sylvan, but alas the cards were never in my favor on the subject.

Valdus

So, a question for you pro's. @Dunn @Jovolo @Mizik

I just forged this little gem:

It is a one-handed weapon.
Damage: 67  To-hit: 164  Speed: 244
A throwing axe has no venoms or magical effects on it.

I'm thinking I should keep forging and try to up the accuracy a wee bit. Is 244 an acceptable speed, though? I mean, it's faster than a level 3, so that has to be decent right?

I WILL be going sentinel. I'm tired of smithing rapiers.

Mizik

Just do it, pussy.

Valdus

Gonna have to forge ten of them now. Befriend a shopkeeper and get them to store them for me for a fee.

Rom

That axe is good, you'll throw at just under 1s with reflexes. I do fine with 248, but there are faster ones out there. That to-hit is perfectly fine, I don't miss against anything but projectiles with my 156. Sentinel is a lot of fun and has a lot of options, have fun with it.