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What are the differences in the classes?

TrinqueTrinque Member Posts: 2 ✭
in The Matsuhama Arena
Sort of a broad question, but as someone relatively new it has been rather difficult to find any good information on what the roles of the classes actually. I have read through the scrolls and through the abilities of every class but a lot of the mechanics I can't find much explanation on and so it makes it difficult to formulate a good idea on what the classes are really about. Unless someone could point me to a good resource that answers my questions, I'd like to ask a few things about each class as a whole.

1. How does each class operate in a 1v1 setting, whether hunting or PvP.
2. How does each class operate in a group setting.
3. What are the main weaknesses of each class.
4. What are the main strengths of each class.

The roleplay and flavor text of the classes is very well explained but it's the general mechanics of each class that I am having a hard time finding any information about. So I hope to foster responses with this thread that will help both me and future people in deciding a class from a gameplay perspective as well as a roleplay perspective. So please give good answers on the classes you are familiar with.

As an example I'm looking for something like this:
Priest
1. They are really terrible at killing things, but are nearly impossible to kill due to healing
2. They spend time healing allies and resurrecting
3. They're weak to getting burst down in fights and they can feel sometimes tedious or repetitive.
4. They're always in demand so you can always feel useful
(This is just an example as I do not know anything of this class, but just an idea of what I'm looking for)

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Comments

  • XliXli Member Posts: 354 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Hiroma tells you, "I just got to listen to someone complain about your deadly axekick being the bane of their existence."
    Archdragon Mizik Corten, Herald of Ruin says, "Man, that was a big axk."
    Hellrazor Cain de Soulis, Sartan's Hammer says, "Your [sic] a beast."
    SynbiosBalkin
  • TrinqueTrinque Member Posts: 2 ✭
    Wow, some great responses already. I appreciate all of it. I find this very helpful and hope it can be equally as helpful for others as well.
    KaitaliHrolfgar
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    @Daier I would love to see the rest of the classes. I'm learning so much about classes that I never get to fight.

  • AthraxAthrax Member Posts: 89 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Runewarden
    1. Great melee.  Extremely high damage with venoms and optional runeblade effects.  Particulary nairat (freezing), and hugalaz(hailstorm proc).  Very straight forward and mechanical setup for disembowel, with the option to damage stack with runes.  Engage/lunge makes mobile combat for the opponent a risk.
    2. Totems, rune sketching, smudging make for great support in stationary groups and raids.
    3. I'm struggling to find a real weakness.  Not a ton of ranged damage, but between thurisaz and bows, I'm not sure I'd call this a weakness.  No instakill, maybe (but disembowel is fairly reliable as one)
    4. High utility for both raiding and hunting.  Strong solo combat.  Raido is a great escape ability. 
    Mizik
  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    WTB @Daeir to finish his class explanations. I like reading them, since it gives so much insight into how OTHERS see the classes.

    Viva la Bluef.
  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I'll just talk about druids because druids are so amazing.

    Driuds provide possibly the highest damage in the smallest amount of time given their strength and bees. Reflexed Maul and bees is very good and powerful, especially if you bought a lupine bow and feel like adding meteors in as well. Druids are also arguably the best limb prep class in the game. This is because their limb prep comes from a flat amount. (always four to break) rather than having to figure out damage and a persons health. The hydra is an amazing morph that allows for a free head attack to prep limbs, so you can throw axes, prone enemies, paralyse them, and all sorts of fun stuff while continuing to prep them effeciently. They have incinerate, which kills when the target is below 50% health, and freezepound which does a 97% damage hit and is only slightly negated by the algiz rune that I have seen. possibly the bard reduction as well. They are difficult yet powerful in 1v1, but take an advanced understanding of combat mechanics to be good at them. (unless you just but lvl3 strenght and lvl3 knuckles and just lolmaul everyone)

    They are amazing support allies as well. They can increase the health regeneration of anyone, barrier anyone, remove harmonics, resurrect, conceal and all sorts of handy things. I don't know how the new staff swing works, but I'd imagine they can prone a whole group of enemies now as well. (possibly just one person). The hydra web is amazing in group combat, as it bypasses buckawns amulet so you can web anyone no matter the setting, and incinerate will kill anyone in a jiffy. Grove lightning is also nice, though not as powerful as a bow it delivers some very specific afflictions like blackout/stupidity/epilepsy that are unique to lightning only. (in terms of LOS combat)

    the weakness of a druid is they are amazingly slow. Each attack is around 3 seconds, which is devastating agaisnt a blademaster who can just keep proning and impaling you on every hit. some knights are even fast enough to do it, but a knight impale is not quite as scary. They are slow and cumbersome in general and lack of lot of the 1v1 potency in early games that other classes get. Also, hunting is slow, even if you do have health regen high enough to outlast most npc's

    Their main strength is their diversity and tankyness. While they don't have the best armor, Vigour, vitality, and a passive sip bonus make them a force to be reckoned with when it comes to their overall health pool.

    Druid is the most damn fun class I've played. Make evil druids plz


    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
    ValdusKyrraKyriella
  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Aepas, I'd like to say that I've been playing IRE muds for years now and as such I've pretty much seen every class available and know at least a little about it. Before I read your description of Druids, I had absoilutely zero desire to play one. Now I'm wondering if there's money in this months budget to allow for a Druid alt to be made.

    Excellent post, friend. :)

    Viva la Bluef.
    AepasAziik
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2013
    Finishing what I can:

    Occultist (never played, only citing what i've seen/read/heard)
    1. Heavy support via high mobility + tarot and ease of affliction gathering, strategic use of entities greatly varies possible playstyles (most prominently used in 1v1/melee settings is hecate and cadmus which hinge around mental afflictions). Has an okay bashing spell, slightly better than what necromancy offers.
    2. Support via tarot/doppleganger, plus straightforward kill pattern in melee and large aoe damage/affliction capability via chaosrays, high burst damage when artefacted (warp spam)
    3. Lacks reliable line-of-sight outside of doppleganger/tarot star, slightly squishy, requires high intellect for damage/mana pool
    4. Potentially free massive stat gain via transmogrify (but also potentially stat loss as well), excellent support and fantastic synergy with many other classes that adequately cover its weaknesses, has astralform which permits easy escape and excellent mobility in large fights with little risk

    Priest (played briefly, not 100% sure)
    1. Tanky area/melee support with rites and affliction healing. Has excellent offensive capacity in 1v1/melee. Hunting is standard, moderately fast but PvE specced priests (strength) will suffer in combat due to high mana reliance
    2. Healing both offensively and defensively, use of devotion hands and angel aura to heal/shield teammates and maintaining rites provides huge passive bonuses and other effects which amplify the effectiveness of other classes
    3. Weak damage burst in fights, relegated to supporting roles in melee (shatter is about as offensive as it gets), no innate LoS or even adjacent attacking capacity
    4. Very strong instant-kill setup that is fairly straightforward to achieve (see Apostates), extremely strong in 1v1. Can contribute in a support role with very little lesson capacity (aura and hands are both VERY early in their respective skill trees), but requires duo-trans (healing/spirituality) to be the most effective. Can bloodswear with a paladin for increased synergy and large ehp boost (rarely used).

    Sentinel (never played or fought, omitting)

    Serpent (hooooo boy)
    1. 1v1 centered around venom locking via affliction bursts (as high as 4 per second on artied serpents) and extremely high LoS damage output through best possible archery in the game. Hunting is okay with both camus and garrote. Not the best, not the worst.
    2. Hindering support via rapid "high" priority affliction delivery in melee, huge damage output/nuking with sniping barrages and large burst damage via backstab (deadly in groups of serpents)
    3. 1v1 is arguably the hardest to even become mildly proficient at in the game. Requires extensive rote knowledge of afflictions and their cures and is heavily RNG based at often inopportune times. Requires tri-trans to be effective in every regard - cannot lock normal targets without hypnosis and you will spend a FORTUNE on venoms without transcretions + some strategies are not viable without scytherus which is high in venom. Generally poor bashing in terms of both damage and speed. Hard to learn (1v1, sniping is ez), extremely difficult to master.
    4. Possesses capacity for high effective health with scales, massively powerful archery (this is really a huge part of what being a Serpent is - 1 lupine serpent can output a ludicrous amount of damage by himself very, very quickly), deadly versus every class without passive curing once mastered, capable of theft (only class), best mobility in the game in hostile territory and out of it with dash/wormholes/phase/pacing and has the holy grail of all escape mechanisms, evade. Can be substantially effective in group combat with only trans subterfuge and a darkbow. Supports both group and solo play with equal proficiency.

    Shaman (played only VERY briefly)
    1. Incredibly fast hidden affliction capacity leading into a viable and considerably deadly instant kill. Decent basher with high mitigation and regeneration, but comparatively low damage overall.
    2. Room support with runelore, group logistics via vodun - area damage capacity via runelore, affliction support in melee
    3. Innately low damage over time (via bleed), strategies contingent on affliction use and curing which requires extensive knowledge and/or practice. Vodun is momentum based (but cannot be set back) meaning a large degree of knowing how to survive general combat is important with the class, moreso than perhaps any other. Many combat strategies contingent on vodun to be effective. Very few active shaman combatants.
    4. Able to afflict stealthily, requiring regular diagnosis and potentially disrupting the offense of others. Vodun abilities emulate extremely powerful travel artefacts and only require 400 gold (roughly)'s worth of commodities. Runelore provides massive defensive buffs and strong room control with ground runes, totems, and large damage output via thurisaz, hugalaz.

    Sylvan
    1. Extremely tanky, straightforward 1v1 class centered on limb breaking and salve buffers to permit the most thematically awesome instant kill possible (heartseed). Strong hunter.
    2. Provides in-room support with elementalism, LoS capacity via grove lightning (limited), moderate innate supportive capacity via groves plus high mobility and ability to cure afflictions from others.
    3. Slow. Nothing about a Sylvan happens quickly, from prep to damage. Groves skillset has very limited use outside of the forest.
    4. Access to barrier via groves (equivalent to a 600cr artefact), extreme defensive advantage via concoctions sip bonus, Viridian defense plus barkskin is acceptable damage reduction to begin with, further augmented with staff spinning. Straightforward instant kill, black-out on demand (very strong combat mechanic, especially in groups) and totem countering plus in-room hinderance matched only by runelore practitioners. Excellent class for beginner players (in my opinion) as it is extremely versatile in combat, very tanky and difficult to kill generally and can harvest own curatives for time investment.

    ValdusKyrraVerily
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2013
    Daeir said:
    Shaman (played only VERY briefly)
    1. Decent basher with high mitigation and regeneration, but comparatively low damage overall.
    Shaman has nearly the highest bashing damage in the game. Pre-traits (thanks to raja stats/balance) they actually did have the highest fully-artied damage (though only slightly ahead of monk, which is much tankier and with less willpower drain). Defensively, they're rather poor compared to other classes with bashing runes, but being able to easily keep runes permanently instead of having to get them re-sketched every hour makes a big difference. Uruz gives good regeneration, but sketching ground rooms in every room isn't very practical and will slow you down, so it mostly only matters when fighting a long time in a single room, or bashing dangerous things where you'd need to hit and run.
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2013
    I sometimes wonder why serpents are always touted to be so utterly amazing with LoS, while it is merely mentioned as a footnote for knights. No doubt, serpent LoS is very powerful, but knight archery is just as much. Serpents have no ability to increase arrow damage beyond what knights can do and accuracy is no issue for knights with artie bows either (especially with the marksman trait). Snipe hiding the attacker's name is a neat feature, but not particularly relevant in most group fights, which only leaves evade as a bonus, which can no doubt be helpful for sniping, but isn't actually needed most of the time.

    And pre accuracy nerf, druids/sentinels were easily the most powerful archers with artie bows.

    P.S. How  can serpents give 4 afflictions per second? I guess with a lot of luck you can technically give five afflictions at once (two from dstab, one from hypnosis, one snake hit, one relapsing affliction), but that would be a single event, and not something you'd do "per second".

    →My Mudlet Scripts

  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2013
    That's what I meant by high burst. I didn't mean to say that they could reliably get off 4 affs a second, since that would be ludicrous. I just felt it was important to categorize Serpents as a burst affliction class rather than a momentum based one like say Apostate or Shaman. My bad for wording it poorly!

    I also wouldn't say any class with access to Algiz on a regular basis is poor, given that Serpent is regularly accoladed for having high defenses because of Scales, and the equivalent/superior functionality that it offers in that regard. Same deal with Berkana granting a large chunk of health regen and Jera giving one strength and one con. Sure, other classes can access this, but not anywhere near as regularly as actively having the abilities to use on themselves. Couple this with enhanced gebu/gebo armor and I wouldn't really class Shaman as defensively poor, not by any stretch.

    The damage portion surprises me, though. Have you posted bleed damage anywhere else before? It felt quite lackluster to me, even at trans Curses.
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,940 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Iocun said:
    I sometimes wonder why serpents are always touted to be so utterly amazing with LoS, while it is merely mentioned as a footnote for knights. No doubt, serpent LoS is very powerful, but knight archery is just as much. Serpents have no ability to increase arrow damage beyond what knights can do and accuracy is no issue for knights with artie bows either (especially with the marksman trait). Snipe hiding the attacker's name is a neat feature, but not particularly relevant in most group fights, which only leaves evade as a bonus, which can no doubt be helpful for sniping, but isn't actually needed most of the time.
    Can't Serpents get 100% accuracy using Snipe without Aiming now, though? That's definitely not possible for Knights, so archery is a reasonable amount slower if you want to guarantee every shot will hit. In terms of damage, though, nothing to separate the two.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,288 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Experience with sniping and marksman without aiming thus far suggests 99% accuracy or so at up to 3 rooms, and a sharp decline from there. Aiming ameliorates the decline (somewhat) past that point, otherwise it is effectively useless for a Serpent with marksman.

    Tecton had the full statistics thing in the thievery buff thread, I believe.
  • StrataStrata United States of DerpMember Posts: 1,753 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited October 2013
    Awesome write-ups @Daeir and @Blujixapug. A friend of mine was thinking about starting a character and was asking many questions. I sent him to this thread.
    He sounded most interested in Apostate and Shaman.

    Edit:
    When I asked him why, he said because either of those two classes he thought would be cool to role-play. This is good.
    That being said, it would be great if those that are more experienced with specific classes posted short write-ups on the "typical" role-play styles of each class.
    By "typical" I mean "how most players tend to role-play a particular class" since there are those that play outside of typical, e.g. @Iocun, the knightly serpent. :)
    image
    Alston
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2013
    Daeir said:
    That's what I meant by high burst. I didn't mean to say that they could reliably get off 4 affs a second, since that would be ludicrous. I just felt it was important to categorize Serpents as a burst affliction class rather than a momentum based one like say Apostate or Shaman. My bad for wording it poorly!
    Yeah,  I realize you were talking about burst damage and not a constant thing. I was merely wondering about the term "per second", which implies a repetition of sorts. I do agree that serpents are somewhat of a burst affliction class (I guess somewhere between momentum and burst, in reality), but those bursts are more in the range of 1.5 afflictions per second, under optimal conditions. (About 1 aff/second from artied out dstab, assuming only small delays from rebounding/hindering, 0.33 affs/second from hypnosis, 0.15 random affs/second or so from the snake).

    1.5 affs per second is still pretty damn fast, mind you. (Not that affliction speed in itself is all that crucial though, as long as it's distinctly faster than herb balance.)
    Antonius said:
    Can't Serpents get 100% accuracy using Snipe without Aiming now, though? That's definitely not possible for Knights, so archery is a reasonable amount slower if you want to guarantee every shot will hit. In terms of damage, though, nothing to separate the two.
    I never wait between aiming and shooting anyways. The only reason I ever stop aiming is if I'm running low on endurance.

    →My Mudlet Scripts

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Daeir said:
    Couple this with enhanced gebu/gebo armor and I wouldn't really class Shaman as defensively poor, not by any stretch.
    I only said they were defensively poor when comparing them to other classes with bashing runes. Having easy access to runes is a pretty big defensive boost.
    Daeir said:
    The damage portion surprises me, though. Have you posted bleed damage anywhere else before? It felt quite lackluster to me, even at trans Curses.
    I'm not 100% certain of the numbers, but I think it was 300 damage for a 12 int, trans curses bleed. With swiftcurse and raja balance, balance was 0.9 seconds (probably 1 second with nimble now, but I haven't timed it). Assuming optimal swiftcursing, that's around 260 dps before intelligence bonus. Here are some other bashing attacks for comparison.

    With artefacts bleed is even better, since it's a magical attack so it can get +20% damage from collars. I don't think that's enough to give it better damage than monk combos (since they also have knuckles for increased damage), but I don't think anything else can match it.
    Daeir
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,506 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah, I made a shaman alt once and hunting was amazing - if not for that ghastly mana/willpower drain.

    →My Mudlet Scripts

  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Iocun said:
    Yeah, I made a shaman alt once and hunting was amazing - if not for that ghastly mana/willpower drain.
    The nice thing about it is that you get amazing hunting for about 15 minutes till you run out of willpower, and then you're forced to take a break and go do something else.
    Iocun
  • XerXer LangleyMember Posts: 804
    How's the willpower decrease on bleed in comparison for hunting now? I seem to remember the main drain from willpower coming from having to keep up swiftcurse as well, so it's entirely possible that it's still woefully short
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    e^(iπ) + 1 = 0
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The willpower cost has been reduced multiple times since I was a shaman, so I'm not sure what it's like now.
    Trevize
  • AradorArador Member Posts: 1,696 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    WRT Knight Archery. If the target is outdoors you also have your falcon. Makes quite a difference.

    MizikTrevize
  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited October 2013
    Xer said:
    How's the willpower decrease on bleed in comparison for hunting now? I seem to remember the main drain from willpower coming from having to keep up swiftcurse as well, so it's entirely possible that it's still woefully short
    It's still kinda bad, but better than it used to be.

    Oh, and I'll second bleed being insanely good. Not that it's needed after Sena said it, but still! Be sure to re-use swiftcurse before the last one falls off - it halves the bal/eq times for curses, which includes the next swiftcurse.
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  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    Sena said:
    Daeir said:
    Couple this with enhanced gebu/gebo armor and I wouldn't really class Shaman as defensively poor, not by any stretch.
    I only said they were defensively poor when comparing them to other classes with bashing runes. Having easy access to runes is a pretty big defensive boost.
    Daeir said:
    The damage portion surprises me, though. Have you posted bleed damage anywhere else before? It felt quite lackluster to me, even at trans Curses.
    I'm not 100% certain of the numbers, but I think it was 300 damage for a 12 int, trans curses bleed. With swiftcurse and raja balance, balance was 0.9 seconds (probably 1 second with nimble now, but I haven't timed it). Assuming optimal swiftcursing, that's around 260 dps before intelligence bonus. Here are some other bashing attacks for comparison.

    With artefacts bleed is even better, since it's a magical attack so it can get +20% damage from collars. I don't think that's enough to give it better damage than monk combos (since they also have knuckles for increased damage), but I don't think anything else can match it.
    Just tested, 0.7s bleed with swiftcurse and nimble, 2s for swiftcurse again with swiftcurse already up. (not sure if anything else is affecting my balance speed? nothing I know of)
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  • XerXer LangleyMember Posts: 804
    edited October 2013
    0.7s? That seems fast to me - I remember it used to be 1.0s consistently. Is that just bleed, or curses in general?

    EDIT: With swiftcurse up.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    e^(iπ) + 1 = 0
    Eld
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    0.7s is faster than old raja, I can't think of why it would be so fast.
  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    Xer said:
    0.7s? That seems fast to me - I remember it used to be 1.0s consistently. Is that just bleed, or curses in general?

    EDIT: With swiftcurse up.
    Just did more testing, it seems to vary from 0.7 to 0.9. That was just bleed, but I believe they're the same.
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  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    1 second with swiftcurse and nimble is what I remember, as well.
    Xer
  • TrevizeTrevize Member Posts: 1,517 @ - Epic Achaean
    BTW: (0.06s latency)

    Fastest: 0.704s
    Slowest: 1.095s

    Average seems to be somewhere between 8.5-9s, from tracking clearing Dun and the Vertani both.
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