Roaming Credits.

Hanley

The rule for credit transfers

-----------------------------

If you gain/acquire the credits in an In Character manner, then you cannot transfer them between your seconds. If you gain credits in an Out of Character manner, then you may transfer them freely.

I'm not sure about all of you, but I know I don't keep track of credits I bought ICly and credits I bought OOCly, but it would be nice if we knew how many we could actually transfer between characters so that we didn't risk the chance of being turned into a plant due to a simple mistake that was made. As such, I've been thinking of an idea, and with the help of @Oceana we came up with a rather decent idea as to how we could differ between the credits we bought though OOC means, and IC means.

Using the CREDIT REPORT lay out, thought it would be best if a new line was added to it to make it simple and easy to read. Instead of having to add a new line to SC 2, CREDIT REPORT would look something like this:

Credit Report

-------------------------------------------------------------------

You have 0 Credits reserved for sale.

You have 0 Credit(s) left.

You have 0 Bound Credit(s) left.

You have 0 Roaming Credit(s).

You have converted 0 Bound Credits to lessons today.

You have 0 Lessons left.

See HELP LESSONS to learn how to receive your 2500 Bonus Lessons.

As you can see not much actually changes, just the implimentation of the 'Roaming' credits line, as to figure out how many you can transfer to your alt should you be willing to or wanting to. Though who don't have alts, this might seem pointless, and in a way for you it is, but in the end it does help out everyone a lot, and makes life a whole lot better for all of us.

Oceana

Or:

Credit Report

-------------------------------------------------------------------

You have 0 Credits reserved for sale.

You have 100 Credit(s) left, of which 20 Roaming Credit(s).

You have 0 Bound Credit(s) left.

You have converted 0 Bound Credits to lessons today.

You have 0 Lessons left.

See HELP LESSONS to learn how to receive your 2500 Bonus Lessons.

Jonners

I see how this could help some people. I personally have never had a problem with this, and I have managed multiple characters that way. Still, seems like a good idea.

Sybilla

I like @Oceana 's version better, because I'd rather avoid 'maths'ing totals where possible. Looks neater to me!

Sylvance

Is this a problem that needs fixing? Genuine question? I can't imagine that anyone has ever been shrubbed for a genuine error on this.

Oceana

I think there are credits sitting on alts that do not get used now, for fear of shrubbery. More transparency will lead to reuse of these credits, and possibly less hesitation in purchases.

Kyrra

I buy most of my credits OOCly so I never really have this problem but on occasion there are things like org credit sales.

One of my alts has 29 credits sitting on it that could go toward the Kyrra buying back arties fund but I don't recall where those came from. I think I sold some herbs and received them as payment, but as I cannot recall, they just sit there.

While most people probably wouldn't have use for such a feature, it would be good to know what is freely transferable between your own characters just to avoid unintentionally breaking a rule.

Riley

I have a perm shrub for this actually

Mannimar

I like this idea, but I just have one concern. lets call it the.... @Vadimuses conundrum.... If you aquire credits as payment for things like scripts, art work, and pizza are they classified as roaming credits since you technically aquired them through an ooc means, and how do you flag them as such if thats the case.

Strata

There's already somewhat of a poka-yoke on the credit system in the form of bound vs. unbound credits. Why make it easier for people who have 50 alts?

Jacen

Mannimar said:

I like this idea, but I just have one concern. lets call it the.... @Vadimuses conundrum.... If you aquire credits as payment for things like scripts, art work, and pizza are they classified as roaming credits since you technically aquired them through an ooc means, and how do you flag them as such if thats the case.

Have transferred roaming credits still flag as roaming credits on the recipient. You shouldn't be buying scripts, artwork, and pizza with ICly earned credits.

Strata

It could be fixed like this:

cexkdb-msg vadimuses Hey I want SVO so I can gank pplz. Plz hook me up bro.

You have sent your mendicant utterance to Vadimuses.

cexkdb-transfer 50 credits to vadimuses for 0 gold

You have transferred 50 credits to Vadimuses, 3 of which were purchased via house credit sale.

You are now one of the entrenched Infamous.

Achaea has declared you an enemy of everywhere.

You now have permanent claustrophobia.

You sluggishly move into action.

Your insomnia clears up, permanently.

You tell Dunn, "Hey, I'm Infamous and I can't hide in the guardhouse. What should I do?"

You tell Sohl, "Hey, I'm Infamous and I can't hide in the guardhouse. What should I do?"

You tell Hirst, "Hey, I'm Infamous and I can't hide in the guardhouse. What should I do?"

You tell Nemutaur, "Hey, I'm Infamous and I can't hide in the guardhouse. What should I do?"

You tell Denex, "Hey, I'm Infamous and I can't hide in the guardhouse. What should I do?"

You tell Jhui, "Hey, I'm Infamous and I can't hide in the guardhouse. What should I do?"

You yell, "Hey, I'm Infamous and I can't hide in the guard house. What should I do?"

cexkdb-qq

Sorry. I don't understand.

cexkdb-write journal

You hold no journal.

cexkdb-FUUUUUUUUUUUUU!)%*!@%!@%)*!@%

Kyrra

Bound credits are solely used for yourself, they are not transferable in any way. You can't even use them to buy things for other people, like giftable artifacts. Unbound credits can be got through a variety of means, both in game and through out of game purchases.

How fair would it be for my army of alts to buy unbound credits through city or house sales and just transfer them for my own use? Where do people draw the line on what's acceptable and what isn't, because it's not hardcoded? Why do things have to be hardcoded in the first place just to get people to follow rules?

Are you saying that credits bought from CFS should automatically be bound to you? Only have bound credits for sale? Credit rewards from IG organised events and competitions? Ooh, any transfer of credits can automatically bind as well.

Am I starting to sound ridiculous yet?

Strata

Kyrra said:

Am I starting to sound ridiculous yet?

No. You make sense. It's simple - don't directly or indirectly fruit your alts through in game means. If you bought credits OOCly then sure. But I feel this type of discussion will only end up opening more cans of worms regarding what about credits is IC or OOC. My understanding is that speaking about credits in most places other than market, tells, messages, or OOC clans is insanity. But organization credit sales and their discussion on house channels, for example, is acceptable? It makes no sense at all. The lines are too hazy - but for the most part - rules are followed. People who ask for stricter control over something like this are the same type of people who would cry to a manufacturer of urinals that because 3 out of 10 guys piss on the wall, there should be legislation passed that all urinals require an unsterilized robotic dick-holder - failure to make use of it can result in a fine not less than $1000 and 5 years wearing diapers.

Jonners

Jacen said:

Mannimar said:

I like this idea, but I just have one concern. lets call it the.... @Vadimuses conundrum.... If you aquire credits as payment for things like scripts, art work, and pizza are they classified as roaming credits since you technically aquired them through an ooc means, and how do you flag them as such if thats the case.

Have transferred roaming credits still flag as roaming credits on the recipient. You shouldn't be buying scripts, artwork, and pizza with ICly earned credits.

That's crap, I actually commissioned artwork through Achaea for real life and paid the artist with Mayan Crowns (just a more expensive and rare version of credits really). I am extremely happy with the results and without this avenue I'd probably be relying on something I drew, and my stick-men are crooked.

Eld

@Kyrra, @Strata, the point here isn't stricter control, it's just to provide an easier means for people who are already following the rules to keep track of how many of their credits they can transfer. You don't automatically bind cfs credits and the like because there's no rule against transferring them. 

Kyrra

@Eld, I agree. My second comment was kind of in response to Strata and I didn't want to battle forum quoting on my phone :P

In a sense, keeping it as is just means more credit sales for some. How many people just end up buying more credits instead, just to be cautious?

I like knowing what I have available to use and it's a little disappointing not being able to use what I've potentially paid for.

Antonius

Provided the already annoying mechanics of dealing with credits aren't made worse I have nothing against this being implemented.

Jonathin

Too many inherent problems with a system like this. The current system is fine. If you accidentally transfer credits that you didn't buy OOCly, talk with the admin about it and present a solid argument regarding why your punishment should be reversed.

Jonners

One issue I see is actual implementation. I like the idea but how does Achaea determine any credits we all ready have as roaming or not before imp? Will they all be unroaming or roaming? I think the only fair way to do it would be to make all currently owned credits roaming, freeing up a bunch of dormant credits on alts.

I could definitely see this as increasing sales. There would likely be a relatively large surge shortly after implementation as people consolidate wayward credits.

Xith

I think maybe list them in reverse for implementation, mainly because ICly acquired credits are easier to keep track of.

- CFS

- creditsale

- achaean quest

- etc

Designate those as untransferrable. In Credit Report use "sane credits" or whatever. If someone tries to transfer credits to their alt without leaving at least as much as the "sane" pool, there should be a denial message.

Regarding the Vadi issue, I think it's up to them as a business person to CREDITS CONVERT <X> TO <BOUND|SANE> as soon as they're received. However, that depends on the service. If they're paid in credits for an enchantment order, those should be 'sane'. If they're given credits for coding, I think those can be transferred to other characters.

Oceana

@Xith Giving us the option to convert to "sane" credits (I dislike that word very much) leaves a lot of room for errors.

Jules

The Vadis of the world should be able to transfer credits, but I can't imagine a practical way to make it happen, at least not under the current rules.  

Also, thank god I don't have any alts (maybe someday).  I wouldn't have even thought of this and could easily have been shrubbed.  

Xith

Oceana said:

@Xith Giving us the option to convert to "sane" credits (I dislike that word very much) leaves a lot of room for errors.

Such as..?

Oceana

@Xith

Such as:
- forgetting to convert them, and not remembering afterwards how many there were
- converting "insane" credits to "sane" credits, by accident or not (also hard to track for admins, probably, and if they can track them, then they can also tag them for us)

Antonius

I don't see why there's a "Vadi issue" at all; if somebody transfers credits to your character in the game they should be considered ICly gained credits, regardless of what they're actually for.

Xith

Oceana said:

@Xith

Such as:
- forgetting to convert them, and not remembering afterwards how many there were
- converting "insane" credits to "sane" credits, by accident or not (also hard to track for admins, probably, and if they can track them, then they can also tag them for us)

The problem I see is that "roaming" is a tag that you would have only assigned to purchased credits from the site, but that doesn't cover all OOC credits, such as coding payment or simple person to person gifts, meaning those recipients still have to convert or label the credits anyway.

I think the acquisition of non-roaming credits is easier to tag:

- CFS

- creditsale

- achaean quest

- etc

But it also has a hardcodeable effect in not being able to accidentally cross-transfer them to an alt. If you designate them as "roaming", that's an aesthetic label and simply means they can be transferred, which they already could... Make sense?

The reason I approached it from the other side is so that the work that goes into this supposed coding has an effect on credit transferring, which was the goal, I think.

Oceana

Bump!

If it isn't technically impossible, maybe something for the List?

Shirszae

Xith said:

I think maybe list them in reverse for implementation, mainly because ICly acquired credits are easier to keep track of.

- CFS

- creditsale

- achaean quest

- etc

Designate those as untransferrable. 

So let me see if I am understanding you completely. Are you saying people should not be able to transfer any of those credits to other characters at all? Or just to alts?

Hasar

I think everyone should have their credits roam to my account.

Xith

Shirszae said:

Xith said:

I think maybe list them in reverse for implementation, mainly because ICly acquired credits are easier to keep track of.

- CFS

- creditsale

- achaean quest

- etc

Designate those as untransferrable. 

So let me see if I am understanding you completely. Are you saying people should not be able to transfer any of those credits to other characters at all? Or just to alts?

Alts of course