New Blademaster or Alchemist - Bashing

Mirani

I am relatively new to Achaea, but have done enough research to understand most basic mechanics and the like. That being said, I suppose that my main interests lie in bashing and RP. I was hoping to get the input of higher level and much longer-played individuals such as yourselves as to your take on ability to do both as either an Alchemist or Blademaster. I am not going to spend RL money, so the ability to garner it through bashing or trade means to fund credits and the like are a consideration.

Looking at the skills and mechanics, both classes appeal to me the most. It has been difficult to ascertain, however, the efficiency of either class in bashing. Blademaster as I understand just uses stances to either go glass canon or tank and slashes away (that is likely overly simplified, but that's the general idea). As alchemists, Educe Iron looks to be the bashing combat choice. My question then is, how do both classes scale as they get higher? 

Does Educe Iron fade off in strength comparatively once you start getting into the higher levels of bashing (where efficiency and time seem to actually start mattering)? Do Blademasters peter out with the drawslashes (or whatever they use at higher levels)? Do Alchemists find it is easier due to their ability to essentially provide their own curing agents?

I realize it is asking quite a lot from someone that nobody even knows, and that this is a rather large supposition that people will take their time to explain things in depth for no other reason than that I am asking. Thank you very much for your time, and I really do hope that I have this in the correct section of the forum...

Synbios

Can't say much for Alchemists, but as a blademaster, bashing is really fast.

For bashing, two of your five stances are extremely useful: Thyr for reduced damage but greatly sped-up balance recovery, Mir for slower balance recovery but great damage mitigation. 

Thyr is great for hunting most of the mobs, as faster balance recovery = more hits + more opportunity to get away when things go south. Mir is for when you just want to stand there and trade hits - useful when in a room with denizens that assist each other.

When you get to higher levels, the benefits of both stances will continue to help you out, especially once you factor in crits(mainly for Thyr) and higher health pools(mainly for Mir).

Eld

Synbios said:

Can't say much for Alchemists, but as a blademaster, bashing is really fast.

For bashing, two of your five stances are extremely useful: Thyr for reduced damage but greatly sped-up balance recovery, Mir for slower balance recovery but great damage mitigation. 

Thyr is great for hunting most of the mobs, as faster balance recovery = more hits + more opportunity to get away when things go south. Mir is for when you just want to stand there and trade hits - useful when in a room with denizens that assist each other.

When you get to higher levels, the benefits of both stances will continue to help you out, especially once you factor in crits(mainly for Thyr) and higher health pools(mainly for Mir).

In terms of straight damage per second, Sanya is better than Thyr since the change to make stances affect damage to denizens.

Sidonia

In terms of straight damage per second isn't Thyr worse than unstanced?

Sultani

You'll have a marketable skill as an Alchemist which may help your situation since you don't wish to spend money on credits.

Eld

Sidonia said:

In terms of straight damage per second isn't Thyr worse than unstanced?

Yes.

Synbios

Of course, the fact that the extra half-second of balance recovery can mean the balance between life and death when your hunting turns into 'ohcrapohcrap i only have 300 health remaining and ogre is about to hit me back'.

Eld

Synbios said:

Of course, the fact that the extra half-second of balance recovery can mean the balance between life and death when your hunting turns into 'ohcrapohcrap i only have 300 health remaining and ogre is about to hit me back'.

Yes, speed can be very useful, independently of DPS.

Mirani

Heh, alright. So I have some input about the Blademaster at least. I take it then that the damage they do scales relatively well as levels and lessons increase? Is the same true of Educe Iron for Alchemists, or does the damage become relatively static and less efficient? For that matter, is there a difference in upkeep for curatives and armor that puts either at an advantage? And is the trade skill from Alchemists something that is actually time efficient in order to earn money, or would it be more prudent to bash away?

I am asking a lot, and I appreciate all of your input and help, thus far and further!

Synbios

Mirani said:

Heh, alright. So I have some input about the Blademaster at least. I take it then that the damage they do scales relatively well as levels and lessons increase?

If my cosmic memory serves me right, only the amount of lessons invested in Two Arts will affect the damage you do with your drawslash, meaning that you obtain the maximum level of damage possible when you're Transcendent. On the other hand, your health is affected by your level, so leveling up means more health means stronger vitality/health elixir sips(since part of the sip amount is based on your maximum health) means less running away means faster killing of mobs.

I think I'm rambling here at this point.

Enrai

Blademaster attacks/stances have basically been covered, so I'll talk a bit about Alchemist, though a couple of things first that may or may not be helpful depending on what you know already, @Mirani.

Your level won't influence how powerful your bashing attack is, just your hp/mp/wp/en pools.
Each class has one bashing attack, Drawslash for BM and Educe Iron for Alch. Their power scales with ranks in the relevant skill and also with Str or Int respectively.

Both classes wear ringmail for armour. Alchemists also have robes that can add resistance to specific damage types, they can wield shields (cavalry? not 100%), Educe Sulphur increases health regain from vitality sips for a variable number of sips, plus they have an ability to buff their critical hit rate (more useful at higher levels). Blademasters get Toughness to resist cutting damage and Weathering which adds a point of Con, meaning more health and thus increased sip effectiveness (I think this is in Striking, so please ignore if in fact it's a Shindo ability).
They each have an ability to cure themselves of some afflictions. Educe Salt for Alchemists is a low rank Alchemy ability and cures the majority of afflictions. Forgot the name of the BM one, but it's a low rank in Striking and cures mainly physical afflictions. Both are generally worse than having the right curative, as they take balance/equilibrium, but can save you if you're caught unprepared.

If you're not in a position to spend real money on the game, don't aim too far ahead in terms of what skills you want, as it'll realistically be a long time before they come.
Alchemists create curatives using Transmutation which explicitly requires that you learn to the Metallurgy ability in Alchemy first. Metallurgy is a long way up the list and I think therefore that it's best not to factor in the trade applications of Alchemists to begin with, which also means that they're basically on an even footing with Blademasters in terms of having to buy their curatives.

Educe Iron is more powerful than Drawslash initially, so you'll blast through some low level areas, but it also costs 80 mana per attack, so it'll cost you in mentality refills.
As you level up, there's a marked difference in speedy versus strong attacks. Blademasters will notice more critical hits due to attacking almost twice as fast (don't hold me to this but from memory Educe Iron is 3.5 or 4 seconds and Drawslash in Thyr is about 2 seconds [Thyr stance pretty good especially as Sanya is quite high on the Twoarts list]).
As others have mentioned, regaining balance faster also helps to keep you alive by letting you run away sooner.

I hope that helps somewhat with bashing. Specifically ignored the perks of most higher skillranks as they'll be fairly far off for a while.

Regarding RP, that's very much dependent on city choice and whether you join a House, as the class in really only a minor factor in who your character is likely to be or become.

Mirani

Damn, that just managed to answer pretty much all the questions I had left! Thank you @Enrai, @Synbios, and @Eld for taking your time and efforts to explain things. It is very much appreciated, and has enabled me to feel comfortable in making my decision.

I'm glad to see that the community is so open and willing to help!

Eld

Weathering and Toughness are both Shindo, but not unreasonable to get early on. Weathering is at Inept, so you'll get it as soon as you embrace class, and Toughness is around Skilled. Between robes, educe sulphur, and educe tin, I'd expect alchemist to generally be more tanky. Mir can make a big difference in this regard, if needed, but at the cost of a much slower, weaker attack.

Arador

Having played both I would say that Alchemist feels more powerful at the start. The attack is slow but highish damage so especially on smaller things it feels faster. Robes and educe sulphur rocks and the ability to travel between anchors is lovely. Even if you can not Transmute, you can extract and sell primes. Quick witted is better for bashing.

Later though BM catches up with a vengeance. As criticals start to matter a lower damage fast attack is less wasteful and you will kill much much faster on average. Tankiness is still not quite on par for me but you will gain levels faster.

On both go for a CON specialisation. Glass cannon is more effort and hit and run gets you killed. Later on Alchemist shines with its trade skill. Not just for low risk gold but also for being self sufficient.

Shunsui

Educe tin doesn't affect denizen damage as far as I know(could be wrong there), in general I'd say alchs are probably about as tanky as a blademaster in mir if their robes are properly imbued. Alchemists do get the advantage of a stronger bashing attack(I think), especially if you're in a city with the ethian tuning, and a self buff that increases their critical hit rate. The drawback is that they're much, much slower in comparison to a blademaster. An alchemist with quick witted has about a 3.6 second eq recovery on educe iron, whereas a blademaster has about a...I'm just gonna venture a guess of somewhere about 2 seconds for drawslash, depending on stance, with the nimble trait. All in all I'd say blademasters are more effective hunters...having a faster attack ultimately gives you more criticals and more breathing room to run, not to mention the different stances which will let you adapt more depending on what you're killing. 

Tesha

Blademaster, without a doubt. Much more flexible, much quicker, you can have a named sword like "Unrelenting Bears", and if you ever decide to dabble in PVP, it does not suck.

Zii

Blademaster is the superior basher.  Alchemist is better than other classes in that regard.

Alchemist has more utility and homunculus is the greatest thing ever.

Sena

About transmutation as a trade skill, doing refills can be very profitable, and being able to refill your own vials anywhere is extremely convenient, but minerals are terrible. When you consider the time it takes to make them and how else you could be spending that time, it's almost always far cheaper in the end to buy them rather than make them yourself.

Arditi

The exception to this is potash. Errbody needs potash.

Kyrra

I feel sorry for the alchemist who gets my 10k mineral orders.

Sena

Unless potash prices have more than tripled recently, potash isn't an exception at all.

I could make 5-8k gold worth of potash in an hour, or spend that hour questing and get 15-25k gold.

Arditi

Someone could do the quests, or kill the denizens responsible for those quests.

Potash is guaranteed money. Someone will always buy it.