Rogue Perms

Jonners

There should be a TrueRogue permission choice so they can be invited to arena events and shopkeepers can give them discounts. By true rogue I mean someone with no city or house affiliations.

Kyrra

Out of curiosity, why would people who choose to not be affiliated with organisations need to be classed by one?

It's one of the drawbacks to not participating.

Veldrin

The limit on shop policies / arena event participants should just get removed

Not member of cityA, Not member of cityB, Not member of cityC, Not member of cityD.., not member of HouseA, not member of HouseB, not member of HouseC, not member of HouseD, not member of HouseE...

That'd leave just rogues

Jonners

I want to be able to provide discounts to rogues as well as the other orgs that get them from me. Just blocking out the other orgs won't accomplish that task.

Kyrra said:

Out of curiosity, why would people who choose to not be affiliated with organisations need to be classed by one? It's one of the drawbacks to not participating.

They are classed by not being in an org, this wouldn't make them all of a sudden be in an org, it would just mean we could target them with permissions as needed. There are plenty of drawbacks to being a rogue and I don't feel this should be one of them.

Veldrin

Sure, just manually set the price lower and then for all orgs increase the price, the effect would be the same, Rogues would get it cheaper than anyone else without being a permissable target

Jonners

The point of this is to be able to provide a discount alongside of other orgs. Your workaround defeats the purpose.

Kyrra

You can set policies for individual people, I don't see why it's that big of a deal.

I have a rogue alt. No city, no house, no order. I had one day wanted to suffix my family and I had to jump through hoops to accomplish that, because titles are another of those things that are a drawback. I had issued over it at the time, and was basically told it's the privilege of living in a city. Which I understood.

By choosing not to be a part of an organisation, you're agreeing to give up or go without certain perks. I may be wrong on this too but isn't that why there is such emphasis to join cities and houses? To encourage people to be a part of communities?

If Bob wants to be a rogue, set him individual snowflake perms. Bob should really consider joining the rest of the blizzard though.

Jules

I see a shopkeeper who wants to cater to rogues.  Makes a lot of sense to me.  He's asking to be able to classify rogues as a type of consumer.

Jonners

Or be able to invite rogues to a global arena event, including the six cities, yes... There's a class for them in city egghunts and stuff, why not for the arena or shops? And don't say rogue restrictions. Rogues have plenty of *%&# piled on their head, this doesn't need to be one of those things though.

Sylvance

I respectfully feel that the point is being missed here. This isn't about creating a group, it's an entirely boolean concern caused by the fact that you can't explicitly target this non-group (ETA: that said, the mere fact that we are here talking about rogues and everyone knows precisely what that means suggests to me that they are a group in any sense that matters, just not an organisation). You might, equally, want to ban rogues from your shop without talking about every other group in Sapience. @Kyrra's argument is the closest to a good one, although, again, I disagree with it. Not being able to single out TrueRogues is not a pain in the ass for the rogue, it's a pain in the ass for the shopkeeper/event organiser - at least that's what I think the OP is trying to state.

Antonius

Kyrra said:

I may be wrong on this too but isn't that why there is such emphasis to join cities and houses? To encourage people to be a part of communities?

There's such a large emphasis on joining cities and Houses because they're the ones who teach you how to play the game. The newbie introduction is, understandably, inadequate considering the complexity of Achaea, and they don't want people to quit in frustration because they decided to (attempt to) play a rogue and were totally confused.

Jarrod

I feel like I've seen posts by administration in the past saying they weren't inclined to give bonuses to rogues because they wanted to encourage players to be involved in organizations, because that's what Achaea is about.

Jonners

This isn't a bonus... People can just as easily ban rogues from shops with this. It's just a function that should be there.

ETA- It's not like we'll see a mass exodus as everyone signs up to be a rogue because they 'might' get invited to the occasional arena game or get a shop discount (more likely ban).

Xith

The question underneath is whether all cityless, houseless people have some value called "Rogue" assigned to them already that the permission could look for in the code. I'm not against the idea if that already exists, but if it's going to be hard for them to make possible I could see it being assigned lowest priority until there's a better reason to have it.

But it seems like a simple thing to modify. if city=none and house=none then rogue=true, apply to existing adventurers, add the setting of a rogue value to the event of gaining or losing a house/city. Then adding the rogue option to things like door perms and all. Seems simple but that's a player's assessment.

Cardan

Would it suffice to simply add a permission type that checks for house and city being 0, or would it be more useful to have cityless, houseless, orgless as three distinct permission types (unimaginative names not withstanding)?

Edit: Clarified that I meant three distinct perm types.

Kyrra

Cityless and houseless combined, in my opinion.

Sylvance

Cardan said:

Would it suffice to simply add a permission type that checks for house and city being 0, or would it be more useful to have cityless, houseless, orgless as three distinct permission types (unimaginative names not withstanding)?

Edit: Clarified that I meant three distinct perm types.

All three would save this discussion ever having to be raised again in future (although I can't conceive of a time that one would need the cityless or houseless perm)!

Jonners

I agree with Kyrra, the combined cityless/houseless is enough. Generally Orderless doesn't need to be included in that though.

Mannimar

rather than having rogue perms, I'd rather have novice permissions for shops. Would make it easier to cater to newbies without worry that the older players would take anything that would be useful.

Chapel

I want rogues to be able to recieve titles from some manner outside divine. Being that titles aren't entirely restricted to House or Organization titles, there's alot of people that use Titles just to express themselves a bit. I dislike that because I dont really have any relation to a Divine It's near impossible for me to get so much as my surname added. Which is, in my opinion, TERRIBLE!

Silas

Them's the breaks. Renounce all ties to formal organisations and lose the perks of being in an organisation.

Jonners

Mannimar said:

rather than having rogue perms, I'd rather have novice permissions for shops. Would make it easier to cater to newbies without worry that the older players would take anything that would be useful.

I like this as well. This should be alongside the rogue perms as a separate choice.

Xith

Mannimar said:

rather than having rogue perms, I'd rather have novice permissions for shops. Would make it easier to cater to newbies without worry that the older players would take anything that would be useful.

level permissions ftw

Jonners

Jonners said:

Mannimar said:

rather than having rogue perms, I'd rather have novice permissions for shops. Would make it easier to cater to newbies without worry that the older players would take anything that would be useful.

I like this as well. This should be alongside the rogue perms as a separate choice.

My only issue is, in general I'd like to give the newbies a higher discount... but not on the rarities. I wish I could set discounts by bin rather than the whole shop.

Sylvance

Jonners said:

Jonners said:

Mannimar said:

rather than having rogue perms, I'd rather have novice permissions for shops. Would make it easier to cater to newbies without worry that the older players would take anything that would be useful.

I like this as well. This should be alongside the rogue perms as a separate choice.

My only issue is, in general I'd like to give the newbies a higher discount... but not on the rarities. I wish I could set discounts by bin rather than the whole shop.

Start a new thread?

Xith

Or make this the official "improve shopkeeping" thread?

For instance, the coder typo bug I submitted about 13 RL months ago that causes pricing group Tarots to read

"You set A look of disgust plastered across his face, Mhaldorus intently surveys his surroundings. to sell for 2500 sovereigns each (in bin 2)."

"You set A decaying corpse has been impaled here upon a fifteen foot stake. to sell for 2500 sovereigns each (in bin 2)."

"You set 10 cocobolo vial to sell for 2500 sovereigns each (in bin 2)."

"You set 10 Auroran Mace to sell for 2500 sovereigns each (in bin 2)."

"You set 5 monolith sigil to sell for 2500 sovereigns each (in bin 2)."

etc.

The cards still get priced normally but it's really goofy to see that every time.

Sidonia

Xith said:

"You set 10 Auroran Mace to sell for 2500 sovereigns each (in bin 2)."

I will take this deal thx. All ten.

Jonners

We have that issue with herbs as well. Might be groups of anything. It prices correctly so I don't complain too much.