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My friend R made a newbie...

BoosteyaBoosteya
edited August 2013 in North of Thera
I'd told my friend about Achaea, explained to her about the different RP dynamics and all.

R is not a computer-savvy person, but she's definitely not stupid. Also, she's an awesome artist, and is doing an AWESOME drawing of Bo for me (which I will happily post when she's had time to finish).

Anyway, R asked me a question I'd not considered: 'I don't like the effects of religious war in the real world; why would I want to play a game that's pretty much centred on it?'
I figured she should make a newbie and ask Achaeans. She started - but this is what ACTUALLY happened:

http://pastebin.com/K8DANY2f

I apologise for not changing any character names, but nobody tells newbies sensitive stuff anyway (I hope). R DOES plan to return, mostly to ask questions, learn about game lore, and hopefully have fun.

My intention in making this thread was to address her original question, which I will now flesh out a bit.

We live in a world where religious conflict exists, has existed, and unfortunately is likely to continue to exist. So here we are, playing Achaea - a game in which many of us play roles as religious extremists of some stripe or another.

How is this fun? Why is this fun?

Achaea used to have more gods that were less about conflict and more about cooperation. This wasn't the first change, and it's unlikely to be the last.

Finally, I am not anti-PvP. I choose not to participate, but I smile IRL when friends tell me about finally beating that person who was seemingly and frustratingly undefeatable before. I do, however, wish that all six cities could unite over stuff that is NOT the size of Bath'mat.

Thank you guys for any and all discussion.

edit: To address @Aedin's response below, Your reply seemed to miss my point. The things you say you enjoy, to me don't seem to require that one fight others over religion. That said, I appreciate you replying anyway.

edit2: @Anaidiana, yes, exactly! Thank you for finding words that somehow I didn't manage to string together to express my question. :)

edit3: @Antidas, I like your response very much! And you are right, conflict IS pretty central. So, for you I rephrase:

How come there's no vocal faction that's trying to get the conflict to cease, or even just slow down? Seems to me that this would be the most challenging faction, exactly for the reasons you stated.

edit4: @Dunn I'm glad you agree with @Antidas. Keep going, please. :)

edit5: @sarapis: My original char, Rhiow (long-suicided) was a Maldaathi who at one point snuck a newbie paladin into Mhaldor's suburbs in order to show off her menagerie of two horses, a mule, and of course her falcon. My third character, Laititi, a member of the Apostates at the time, once went to Shallam to explore and rat, and was even resurrected by a devotionist when she died to a sewer thug. Up until very recently, Hashan and Cyrene were more or less considered social cities, looked down on and/or ignored by the PvP folks, enjoyed by the Achaeans who just wanted to hang out with friends and not really put as much effort into the political/religious issues. Look how hard@Vayne has had to work to change that! And I'm not sure, but I think all the social folks have wandered off, pretty much. Humans are social creatures by nature.
Miin-aan baash kimini-sij-i-gan bitooyin sij-i-gan-i bukwayszhiigan = blueberry π
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Comments

  • AedinAedin
    Great to hear their interested in returning, although if you were wanting to hid who they were more, could have removed the CT and their name whenever Romeo kept saying it.,

    How is this fun? While Aedin is Targossian, he finds it quite enjoyable reading into the Lore, learning about Lady @Aurora and such. There is a lot of depth and the other people he meets makes it quite enjoyable as well. Well some people that is!

    Why is it fun? How is it not fun?
  • AnaidianaAnaidiana
    Sometime people just get tired of fighting a neverending battle. There will never be peace. There will never be resolution. Some Americans revel in it, glorify it...look at the number of our video games that are war-inspired/related/what-have-you. Other countries, not so much. If you're not a fan of it irl, and do not enjoy those types of games, why would you want it in this realm, a fantasy realm where you go for the sole purpose of engaging in escapism?

    image
  • DunnDunn
    Antidas said:

    Even if you do disagree with this, you cannot expect a game company to gear their games towards your particular way of thinking. To do so would be to basically sacrifice the company, because it would never manage to stay afloat. This may still be a problem, but its not a problem with the company itself. Its a problem with the desires of todays society. Either way, I personally have no problem with how Achaea runs itself.
    This so much.


  • BoosteyaBoosteya
    @Jarrod Yeah, saw that over her shoulder, and left be. So much going on for her, it was under her radar. Left it in, and was surprised it took as long as it did for anyone to comment.

    @Ourania I'm not trying to 'Disnefy' Achaea. Far from it. Well, except from an IC standpoint. In THAT sense, I want a faction that's all about trying to make peace in a world dead-set against it. Some folks have suggested Cyrene. Cyrene is NOT this. Should it be? I don't know.

    @Sarapis idea: RANKINGS CHESS. Nuff said?
    Miin-aan baash kimini-sij-i-gan bitooyin sij-i-gan-i bukwayszhiigan = blueberry π
  • WynedereWynedere
    An organization solely focused on bringing about world peace in Achaea would promptly be annihilated, as it should be!

  • BoosteyaBoosteya
    edited August 2013
    @Wyndere See, THAT is why I think it's valid.

    I don't understand why nobody's trying this. I see a lot in forums about chances for RP and also a lot about doing things that are difficult. The very arguments against it tell me that if anyone pulls it off, it's going to be a benchmark accomplishment.

    Especially since in Achaea, 'annihilated' is generally temporary.

    edit: @Ourania Thank you for your post below this one - and, I've been trying, in my way. *sigh* Not sure I have the right skills, and I can't acquire them IC. I'm not giving up. I've been around as a player for a very long time, and while I take breaks, I've not left, and don't intend to leave.
    Miin-aan baash kimini-sij-i-gan bitooyin sij-i-gan-i bukwayszhiigan = blueberry π
  • AntidasAntidas
    @Boosteya If you want to do this, then start RPing it out. Don't wait for someone else to do it. I think it could be a valid role to play, although I dunno how many followers you'd get. Oneiros would have been a perfect patron for said group, but that bird as flown...

  • OuraniaOurania The Garden of the Gods
    edited August 2013
    Boosteya said:
    @Ourania I'm not trying to 'Disnefy' Achaea. Far from it. Well, except from an IC standpoint. In THAT sense, I want a faction that's all about trying to make peace in a world dead-set against it. Some folks have suggested Cyrene. Cyrene is NOT this. Should it be? I don't know.


    Hop too it then. As a player you have a wealth of IC ways to try and get something started, be it for this reason, or any other. I want never gets unless you work for it, otherwise it ain't worth it! :D Also, there was a God of Peace, so if you look around enough, you might dig up something useful.

  • PeakPeak
    edited August 2013
    Ashtan would promptly declare war and expeditiously smash it into something akin to tapenade.
  • KaieKaie
    edited August 2013
    Maybe for peace. I've had some negative experiences starting aggressive stuff ICly. I once tried to take on the CIJ for being a menace to me as a group and vilifying me. Was in the midst of organizing a takeover on their estate with a defected member when the house Divine apparently eavesdropped on the tells between us in the brasslantern and found a ridiculous reason to cast out the member himself, then proceeded to announce over the house channel what I was conspiring. To me that felt like a huge blow to RP and over interaction with the divine. Shouldn't be able to intercept tells from potential enemies and squash a plan then announce it. It feels a bit on the extreme side to me.
  • WessuxWessux Chattanooga
    Oh crap, I haven't read VGcats in like a year. I bet they have like 5 new panels!
    Invest in a 9mm retirement plan.
  • NimNim

    Vansittart said:

    To be fair though, your friend was asking a pretty dumb question.  This is a high fantasy game - has your friend read any high fantasy? It's all evil, and smiting, and epic conflict, and death and religious war.  Does anyone want to read a book where Frodo stays in the Shire and gossips about the Sackville-Bagginses?  Or Garion becomes a smith?  Or Rand stays at home... and actually bad example, the Wheel of Time actually would have been a lot better if it was a short story about medieval village life.

    Achaea Evil is just a form of social darwinism, and very different from the concept of evil itself from what I understand. The fact that it's called "evil" gives it no justice from a starting glance, however, and makes Achaea feel like a very shallow Good vs Evil game where one side is obviously right and the other one is obviously wrong. If I didn't have a good understanding of how evil works in Achaea, I'd probably have the same question - and I might have lost interest in Achaea if it had been answered as it was in the logs, too!

    Why would I want to roleplay in a shallow environment? I demand depth to my roleplaying. Achaea still doesn't fully meet my needs, but it has more than "good vs evil," at least!

    Also, @Boosteya: I don't like metagaming that much, and I haven't played in probably months now, but world peace WAS one of Nim's goals, so it's not like you're the ONLY PERSON IN ACHAEA who could conceive of this! However, even I acknowledge that wanting world peace is only possible when it's not already present. That said, it would be interesting if the cities were more political with one another - I know Cyrene and Shallam had some stuff like that going on, but in general, the vibe seems to be that even the Garden themselves are pushing the cities toward open conflict, and that is like, mega boring.

    That's one million borings!

  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo Domingo

    More city-to-city politics could be awesome... I've always thought that making every city hate each other in the end makes the world seems smaller, because the people you have access to gets incredibly reduced, as well as the places you can safely be without worrying about being jumped and killed. 

    But alas, most people seem to think differently.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • JulesJules
    In my ideal Sapience, Cyrene becomes more neutral than ever, trading with anyone who has gold and doesn't spill blood on the streets (eew, gross), and our streets as clean as Stepford.  Mess with us and we'll take you out to the back alley containing our one and only drunk unemployed guy and put a new chip in.  
  • AntoniusAntonius
    The major problem with a lot of inter-city politics is that it only involves a very small number of people and nobody else ever hears about it. If it happening is, for the majority, exactly the same as it not happening I can't see how that's such a great thing. There's also no reason that more open hostilities can't involve political dealings and roleplay; they'll just be taking place as a backdrop to the soldiers fighting on the frontlines.

    Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files

  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo Domingo
    Antonius said:
    The major problem with a lot of inter-city politics is that it only involves a very small number of people and nobody else ever hears about it. If it happening is, for the majority, exactly the same as it not happening I can't see how that's such a great thing. There's also no reason that more open hostilities can't involve political dealings and roleplay; they'll just be taking place as a backdrop to the soldiers fighting on the frontlines.
    As I said, making it everyone VS everyone will just make the gameworld seem small and isolated. I think thats also part of the reason why some people take the mentality of "their fun, or ours" and obviously choose the latter. If you can't interact with someone, you can't come to care about them. Why care if they are having fun, then?

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • NimNim
    Antonius said:
    The major problem with a lot of inter-city politics is that it only involves a very small number of people and nobody else ever hears about it. If it happening is, for the majority, exactly the same as it not happening I can't see how that's such a great thing. There's also no reason that more open hostilities can't involve political dealings and roleplay; they'll just be taking place as a backdrop to the soldiers fighting on the frontlines.

    The major problem with soldiers being in the foreground is that it's ill-designed (Achaea is not good at handling multiple combatants on either side, raiders are just good at maneuvering its ill designs!) and aimless (there's rarely any objective other than "grief the other players", and that doesn't sound like a healthy objective to have!). You might argue that it's fun, but your only concrete objective is to make it not-fun for the other side, so it's almost cancerous more than anything, especially since inter-city conflict actually fundamentally involves attacking a city and involving its current player base as a whole rather than just its willing participants.

    I'd argue that until those issues are resolved (especially the second one!), there's no reason combat should be anything other than a backdrop.

  • BoosteyaBoosteya
    edited August 2013
    Thank all of you guys for your responses in this thread so far!

    Someone asked about my friend's reading habits. I think she's pretty much read ALL the sci-fi/fantasy stuff. She wrote a parody of LotR, and she hasn't let me read it, but she's described some bits, and I was VERY amused.

    Like I said: she's not stupid, she just isn't comfortable with computers. Yet?

    Also, she WILL be back. Not sure about the char she has now. (I picked the name. Agnosia == 'not knowing.' Linguistic interest on my part, ftw?) She won't be there just to RP, though. Probably prefer to be one of the folks who just stands in one place and is in tells nearly constantly, but the more involved she is, the better she can understand Achaea properly.

    She is awesome! She's put up with me as a friend for longer than I've played Achaea - and for those who don't know how long that's been, I remember the tail-end of old Landmarking.

    Combine that with the fact that I don't really RP, and I have to say (apologetically) that yes, anything anyone dislikes about Bo (or any of my alts) is probably a trait I really have. Not to downplay any and all of Bo's/my good points. :P Now, apply this: What kind of person can be a friend for that long, with a person who is now as Bo is/I am?

    And yes, in real life, every conflict around me, I feel stressed out by it. I know people don't always agree on stuff, but I've had enough of IRL angriness, mine and that of others. The only challenge I WANT anymore, is that of seeking to end conflict.
    Miin-aan baash kimini-sij-i-gan bitooyin sij-i-gan-i bukwayszhiigan = blueberry π
  • AveriAveri
    This Ted talk is sort of relevant.   I think for similar reasons, we enjoy all this religious role play. We are using something like a God's ideals to bring a bunch of unrelated people closer together.  The camaraderie is one of the fun parts of combat and raids. Anyway, I really like this talk so I am going to leave it here.

    Commission List: Aesi, Kenway, Shimi, Kythra, Trey, Sholen .... 5/5 CLOSED
    I will not draw them in the order that they are requested... rather in the order that I get inspiration/artist block.
  • XithXith
    1. The helpful voice of Romeo the Guide sounds within you, "If you need assistance, you can speak with
    2. me directly. TELL JULIET <message> to ask your question."


      Achaean Guides. Always on the ball.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
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