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Rapier Pricing. Requesting market data.

ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
So, I'm forging between 100 and 300 Rapiers a day (yes, with a Hammer), and getting some decent results. Still waiting for the really good ones to arrive, but that's normal with Forging.

What I'd like is for anyone who knows how much some expensive rapiers have sold for to post the results. I've had a few people approach me asking for 235+ speed rapiers if/when I create some, but I'd like to not get ripped off purely because I don't know what is considered a good price. I'd equally not like to get laughed at for overvaluing my work.

So, if you're a Forger or you know someone who's sold high end Rapiers in the past, please don't be shy. You don't have to name names if you don't want to. You can also PM me if you'd rather not post that information to the forums.

Viva la Bluef.
Hhaos
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Comments

  • AchillesAchilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,579 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It really is what you value your time at.  Most rapiers 243+ speed sell for 100+ credits (depends on the other stats).  Comm wise thats 2000 rapiers (counting smelting) to forge one 243 rapiers (and I'd ball park it closer to 1 in 5000 for a 243+ rapier).

    My personal pricing has usually been something like but I adjust it based on the other stats.
    223 - 25000
    227 - 50000
    231 - 150000
    235 - 250000
    239 - 500000
    image
    Hhaos
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Or get 2 245 speed ones for free from @Earionduil.

    Kyrra
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Rangor said:
    I cheat and buy soulpiercers every time I go runewarden. (really should stop trading them in.)
    Hi Earionduil alt.

    Kyrra
  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Do we have a list of breakpoints? Or is that what Achilles posted?

    Viva la Bluef.
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,991 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    There's never been agreed upon pricing for weapons and armour. People will pay what they're willing to pay, and that will reflect who is in the market for an item at the time and how much they have available to spend.

    I'd say 25k for a 223 speed rapier is horrendously overpriced unless the other stats are extremely good because that speed's just really low.
    ShunsuiSylvanceCahinSimoln
  • KatzchenKatzchen MhaldorMember Posts: 2,000 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited August 2013
    Antonius said:
    There's never been agreed upon pricing for weapons and armour. People will pay what they're willing to pay, and that will reflect who is in the market for an item at the time and how much they have available to spend.

    I'd say 25k for a 223 speed rapier is horrendously overpriced unless the other stats are extremely good because that speed's just really low.
    It's actually pretty rare to get a 223+ speed rapier. They are more expensive these days, because less people forging like crazy. I forged 10 223 out of 1000, and only 1 227, nothing better. That's 455k of steel, and many hours spend forging. Okay, clearly I didn't get very lucky, but even at 25k per you'd be forging at a loss just on materials unless you did get some amazing rapiers. I actually donate all rapiers of those speeds to my guild, so I'm losing a ton of gold on it, but I can see why everyone doesn't want to sell them cheaper.

    223 speed is a decent rapier, the only reason people think otherwise, and see 25k is expensive is because they were spoilt by the likes of Peak, Trey, and Salik churning out tens of thousands of them, and bringing down the market value.


                   Honourable, knight eternal,

                                            Darkly evil, cruel infernal.

                                                                     Necromanctic to the core,

                                                                                             Dance with death forever more.



    Hhaos
  • AchillesAchilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,579 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    25k is about 30 minutes of hunting by a knowledgeable motivated dragon.  Forging is really only cost effective for midbie knights but then those guys probably dont have a hammer of forging. 

    Also in general the 223 rapiers will have better to hits and damage.  I see a lot of low to mid 80 damage rapiers with solid tohit (150ish) with 223 speed that are better than level 2 artie rapiers.

    image
  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Agreed 100% with Katzchen. The majority of Rapiers turn out at less than 200 speed. I'm willing to say at least 70% of rapiers forged do so.

    I've been keeping a log of everything I've forged. I'll post the entire thing as soon as I get my first 230+ Rapier just to give the community a better idea of how much crap Forgers have to wade through in order to get something decent.

    It takes me about 2-3 minutes per  Rapier, by the way. When Katzchen said it took her many hours to get 1000 rapiers, we're talking days, here. At 2 minutes per, 5000 rapiers would take 166.6 hours of nonstop forging.

    Viva la Bluef.
    Jakiro
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Valdus said:
    Agreed 100% with Katzchen. The majority of Rapiers turn out at less than 200 speed. I'm willing to say at least 70% of rapiers forged do so.

    About 83% without a hammer, if Sena's calculator is accurate. Only about 2% with a hammer, though.
  • KatzchenKatzchen MhaldorMember Posts: 2,000 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited August 2013
    Eld said:
    Valdus said:
    Agreed 100% with Katzchen. The majority of Rapiers turn out at less than 200 speed. I'm willing to say at least 70% of rapiers forged do so.

    About 83% without a hammer, if Sena's calculator is accurate. Only about 2% with a hammer, though.
    Um, no. Most rapiers are under 200 speed with a hammer, or at -least- around half, with most of the rest being below 211 speed.


                   Honourable, knight eternal,

                                            Darkly evil, cruel infernal.

                                                                     Necromanctic to the core,

                                                                                             Dance with death forever more.



  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    Eld said:
    Valdus said:
    Agreed 100% with Katzchen. The majority of Rapiers turn out at less than 200 speed. I'm willing to say at least 70% of rapiers forged do so.

    About 83% without a hammer, if Sena's calculator is accurate. Only about 2% with a hammer, though.
    Are you nuts? I bought a hammer before I did any forging whatsoever, and I have the recorded forgings to back up my numbers if you want me to go ahead and post them.

    2%? Ridiculous.

    Viva la Bluef.
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Valdus said:

    Eld said:
    Valdus said:
    Agreed 100% with Katzchen. The majority of Rapiers turn out at less than 200 speed. I'm willing to say at least 70% of rapiers forged do so.

    About 83% without a hammer, if Sena's calculator is accurate. Only about 2% with a hammer, though.
    Are you nuts? I bought a hammer before I did any forging whatsoever, and I have the recorded forgings to back up my numbers if you want me to go ahead and post them.

    2%? Ridiculous.
    Like I said, just going by @Sena's forging calculator. Could be buggy.
  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited August 2013
    Eld said:
    Valdus said:

    Eld said:
    Valdus said:
    Agreed 100% with Katzchen. The majority of Rapiers turn out at less than 200 speed. I'm willing to say at least 70% of rapiers forged do so.

    About 83% without a hammer, if Sena's calculator is accurate. Only about 2% with a hammer, though.
    Are you nuts? I bought a hammer before I did any forging whatsoever, and I have the recorded forgings to back up my numbers if you want me to go ahead and post them.

    2%? Ridiculous.
    Like I said, just going by @Sena's forging calculator. Could be buggy.
    If it's saying people wiht a Hammer only get 2% of their forgings under 200 speed then it's flat out wrong, not buggy.

    http://pastebin.com/DDhFpkSR

    That is with a Hammer of Forging and the Master Forger trait.

    Also @Antonius if you actually look, you'll notice there's only 4 223's in there with the highest of the batch being a 227, and it's got accuracy that I wouldn't use. 66/146/227

    505 Rapiers. 252500 gold worth of steel. Over 1000 minutes of solid forging.

    Viva la Bluef.
    Hhaos
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Valdus said:
    Eld said:
    Valdus said:

    Eld said:
    Valdus said:
    Agreed 100% with Katzchen. The majority of Rapiers turn out at less than 200 speed. I'm willing to say at least 70% of rapiers forged do so.

    About 83% without a hammer, if Sena's calculator is accurate. Only about 2% with a hammer, though.
    Are you nuts? I bought a hammer before I did any forging whatsoever, and I have the recorded forgings to back up my numbers if you want me to go ahead and post them.

    2%? Ridiculous.
    Like I said, just going by @Sena's forging calculator. Could be buggy.
    If it's saying people wiht a Hammer only get 2% of their forgings under 200 speed then it's flat out wrong, not buggy.

    http://pastebin.com/DDhFpkSR

    That is with a Hammer of Forging and the Master Forger trait.

    Also @Antonius if you actually look, you'll notice there's only 4 223's in there with the highest of the batch being a 227, and it's got accuracy that I wouldn't use. 66/146/227
    Ah, no, just user error, I think. Forgot to halve the number of refining steps for the hammer. So 17% at least 200 without a hammer, 23% with.
  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    That's much more realistic.

    So 77% under 200.

    25k definitely isn't expensive for something that's hard to get.

    Viva la Bluef.
    KatzchenHhaos
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,991 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You're making the mistake of thinking that hard to get equals worth buying, and for a 223 speed rapier without very good other stats it really doesn't. I'm sure it wouldn't be difficult to sell a 223 speed rapier for 25k, but that doesn't mean I personally think it's worth that much.
    SimolnJulesKyrra
  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited August 2013

    Antonius said:
    You're making the mistake of thinking that hard to get equals worth buying, <snip>
    Sorry, that's how it works. The fact that a 223 is less than easy means that the 227-235 range is going to be expensive, and the 243+ range utterly crazy.


    Post edited by Valdus on

    Viva la Bluef.
    Hhaos
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    It all boils down to how many poor bastards from the player base at a given time are willing to tink tink away for countless hours... It's the reason we have so many truly exceptional forged weapons and it probably also means the cost of production in terms of time and money isn't favorable to forgers. I sure wouldn't want to try to make bank off it.
    Sylvance
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited August 2013
    The way to make any decent money seems to be batches from what I read around here. As a buyer, I'd sure want to have absolute trust that the forger wouldn't be tempted to keep prime rapiers himself though. You'd want to have a sterling rep. EDIT: I'd take heart that Antonius seems to be saying there aren't many "sweatshop forgers" right now.
  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Jules said:
    The way to make any decent money seems to be batches from what I read around here. As a buyer, I'd sure want to have absolute trust that the forger wouldn't be tempted to keep prime rapiers himself though. You'd want to have a sterling rep. EDIT: I'd take heart that Antonius seems to be saying there aren't many "sweatshop forgers" right now.
    Of course, if there's someone who doesn't mind forging forever for nothing in return, it's going to be harder to sell forged goods at a reasonable price.

    My point is that since a 235 rapier is a 0.003 probability, it should be expensive.

    Viva la Bluef.
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited August 2013
    Oh those will be. Whether the actual payoff will be "fair" for the amount of time and comms I'm not sure, but everyone will perk up at those, even when there are are ridiculous amounts of rapiers being forged.
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,991 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited August 2013
    Most of your market doesn't know, understand or care about the probability of forging a particular rapier though. They only care about how effective it is, and for a 223 speed rapier the answer is usually "not very". A 235 speed rapier is a totally different matter, and they're worth considerably more - not because there's a lower chance of forging them but because the gains from using them are higher.

    For the small number of forgers who own, or at least stock, shops then they get to set their prices; for the majority of rapier sales by other forgers the price is dictated by the buyers, not the seller.
  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    Antonius said:
    Most of your market doesn't know, understand or care about the probability of forging a particular rapier though.
    Then these people wont ever get a fast rapier from me and I'll end up using it myself. I'm not too worried about this.

    Viva la Bluef.
  • TeshaTesha Member Posts: 2,956 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You should not expect to pay anything less than 100 credits for weapons with 239+ speed and decent to-hit. Hopefully the weaponry changes will come with some kind of plan to prevent absolutely screwing people who bought super expensive weapons!

     i'm a rebel

  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    If you're talking forged, I assume the plan is that they go poof.
  • KatzchenKatzchen MhaldorMember Posts: 2,000 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with a pair of say 70/150/223 rapiers. They're not amazing, but they'll do fine in combat. They are effective. Anything higher just leaves more room for error, and starts making pure damage kills an option.


                   Honourable, knight eternal,

                                            Darkly evil, cruel infernal.

                                                                     Necromanctic to the core,

                                                                                             Dance with death forever more.



    Valdus
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Any updates on when forging changes will come and what they entail yet?
  • TeshaTesha Member Posts: 2,956 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What is this 'go poof' silliness? I really hope there is some kind of better plan, or that this never actually happens. Perfectly fine with paying a hundred credits for a good rapier every few rl years.

     i'm a rebel

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