Requesting Runewarden Logs

Valdus

I'd love to see some complete logs of fights as Runewarden or against Runewarden. Ideally, I'd like to see ones that feature the RW winning so I can have something to reference against and such, learn tactics, etc, but whether they win or not, I'd still like to see your log if the fight was a good one.

Appreciate it, guys. Thanks.

Cynlael

envenom left with <venom>
envenom right with <venom>
dsl <target>

Repeat until they die.

(Or a really advanced tactic is to get exceptionally fast ones and just dsl-repeat with curare/prefarar like the pro-est of pro Runewardens Salik did.)

Valdus

Thanks. Ever so much.

Cynlael

Always a pleasure to help the less fortunate. I know pro strats for every class.




Failsafe is to change monk and trans tekura, then join ashura and axekick people.

Seftin

I would advise that the best way to learn to do things is to focus on sparring a lot. Focus on a single strategy to begin with, I would advise something along the lines of a straight up disembowel paired with a Hugalaz rune, this will allow you to learn about not only breaking limbs efficiently with the correct venoms, but on also how to time it so that your controlled and timed attacks pair together to optimise damage. Runewarden doesn't have a straight up finisher (for nit pickers I am excluding cleave), unlike Paladin and Infernal who each have their own respective insta-kill, however it does have the tools to utilise disembowel paired with some good damage-afflicting and controllable runes to boost the damage to kill their opponent. Once you have the basic disembowel down you can start trying out other tactics such as a potential salve-lock using nairat runes to stack chill, pipe locks, riftlocks etc (a lot of people will tell you that riftlock is no longer possible due to X Y and Z but it is still worth knowing as, hey, you never know you may get lucky!) As I said at the top, the best thing to do is to spar and focus on learning suitable disembowel tactics against opponents, perhaps utilising 2,3,4 and 5 limb strategies into one. Runewarden has the capability to stack immense amounts of damage quickly and maintain an impressive offense, whilst their armour and runes allow for a relatively forgivable defense (passive healing runes, algiz/berkana and fitness allow you to pretty much get out of most situations from both affliction and damage based classes ((and no I am not implying that berkana tick regen will save you from an Ashura Artie Monk AXK))) Anyway, get in the arena, get yourself some rapiers and learn how to succesfully prep and break limbs, learn from other runewardens and then start learning strategies based around each class (occultist for instance can parry 2 limbs) so you can learn how to beat them/lock them temporarily or just afflict so much damage in a short amount of time that they die swiftly********PLEASE FORGIVE THE EDITING MY IPAD HATES THE FORUMS****

Valdus

Excellent advice Seftin. Read it all. Thank you.

I'd still like to see some Runewarden logs (as RW or against them, doesn't matter) if anyone has them. Going over logs can help you learn too.

Mishgul

Paragraphs pls

Mazoth

seconded for logs, totally agree with @Seftin on getting out and practicing, but it is nice to see someone doing it "right" to get an idea of what to shoot for.

Naisar

I will try and get some logs when I have the chance and if I'm feeling like combing through them.  Unfortunately many of the ones that I win are either twenty seconds of dsls or twenty thousand lines of very slowly prepping limbs for a dsb.

In the meantime:

I usually start out a spar by seeing if I can flatten them with straight damage.  No reason to go through elaborate prep if they die to mindless macro mashing.  If you sketch thurisaz/shoot meteor/sketch hugalaz and then start with the damage dsls, a lot of people will fold.  Anyone worth their textp will immediately bail/play defensively when you start that combo, but losing ten seconds isn't a big deal so it's worth a shot.  In terms of DPS venoms, I use curare and then stick prefarar/euphorbia/darkshade before just screwing around.

For prep, you want to focus on venoms that will hinder your opponent and buy you the time necessary to get all those limbs where you need 'em.  Silly people who prioritize asthma over paralysis can just be kalmia/curare'd until the lightbulb goes on and they switch.  Arm venoms will slow down many classes, curare/aconite's never a terrible idea.  You can always stick xentio if you like.  While you're doing this, lean on stonewalls & ground runes to stay alive.  For bastards you have to tumble for, set up a stonewall with wunjo/nairat on the other side and unenemy them.  Since they're unenemied they can't activate the runes ahead of time, and so you knoww they'll be there when you tumble.  Just remember to enemy after you start tumble.

Never underestimate the power of prepping a couple limbs and using them for a straight damage sequence- you don't have to have perfect setups to kill (most) people.  Use blocking + stonewalls and a couple well placed wunjo/nairats to set the stage, turn on fury+mastery, and engage.  If you know they won't bail when you sketch hugalaz, do it.  DSL for damage a couple times, not enough to make them shield but enough to chunk their health a bit, then start breaking limbs.  People panic when they're hemmed in with both arms broken and the sensitive dsls start piling in.  That's often all you need.

Valdus

Awesome post. Simply awesome.

And I'd love both kinds of those logs. I don't mind reading a 20 minute fight if it shows me something or gives me ideas, etc.

Achilles

Naisar's post was excellent, the only thing I think worth elaborating on is because the Runies lack a true instant kill (aside from a level 2 torso damage dsb which shouldn't happen to anyone) you need to do a decent amount of pre-damage before your going into your dsb setup.  Most Knights will dsb for about 65-75% off a dsb with torso damage which isn't enough to kill the tankier players, so you need to soften them up a bit.

Also you'll need to learn ways to get around static parry, runewardens actually have the best (and most) options for doing so.

Eld

Naisar said:

...
Arm venoms will slow down many classes,
...

Epteth/epteth DSLs make me want to kill people IRL.

Valdus

Eld said:

Naisar said:

...
Arm venoms will slow down many classes,
...

Epteth/epteth DSLs make me want to kill people IRL.

Good to know.

Xer

@Eld - Wait until I make an Acciaccatura/Epteth/Vibrato macro - L2 and L1 armbreak simulatneously <.<

Valdus

People will long for the days of tremololololol.



Also. Please! Logs!

Jovolo

Decent Runewardens are hard to come by, @Valdus. I can probably count them on one, or at a stretch two hands. Though one good way of searching for combat logs yourself is to enter the names into google, with some other search result included such as: '(person) viciously jabs an ornate steel rapier into' - or 'Achaea (person) vs' and so on. 

Names to search: 

Naisar, Tynil, Tirac, Voy, Anedhel, Jhui, Mizik, Barg, Kalvon, Carmain, Ellodin, Spire.

(I would have said Cooper, but the only fight I saw was him vs Rennyn and that was so god awful I wouldn't point anyone near it.)

Can't think of anyone else that didn't just lean on Salik rapiers and damage, so others feel free to chime in with appropriate fighters. I also didn't include Iakimen because I've only ever seen him lean on damage, which you won't learn anything from if you don't get equally as great rapiers.

Some of the above fought as Infernal, or Paladin, but I imagine it will still be useful to you. All of the above used Runewarden/Knight at least fine as a class, and you should be able to get up a few helpful logs. 

Santar

Iakimen is probably the best runie that's actively fighting right now, unless I'm forgetting someone.

Valdus

Jovolo said:

Decent Runewardens are hard to come by, @Valdus. I can probably count them on one, or at a stretch two hands. Though one good way of searching for combat logs yourself is to enter the names into google, with some other search result included such as: '(person) viciously jabs an ornate steel rapier into' - or 'Achaea (person) vs' and so on. 

Names to search: 

Naisar, Tynil, Tirac, Voy, Anedhel, Jhui, Mizik, Barg, Kalvon, Carmain, Ellodin, Spire.

(I would have said Cooper, but the only fight I saw was him vs Rennyn and that was so god awful I wouldn't point anyone near it.)

Can't think of anyone else that didn't just lean on Salik rapiers and damage, so others feel free to chime in with appropriate fighters. I also didn't include Iakimen because I've only ever seen him lean on damage, which you won't learn anything from if you don't get equally as great rapiers.

Some of the above fought as Infernal, or Paladin, but I imagine it will still be useful to you. All of the above used Runewarden/Knight at least fine as a class, and you should be able to get up a few helpful logs. 

Thank you, I'll do that.

And yeah, I'd be perfectly fine with Paladin logs also. In fact, I should look into the class itself actually, since I haven't Embraced just yet. (Houseless, level 48.) I never knew they got their own Instakill here.

Jovolo

Santar said:

Iakimen is probably the best runie that's actively fighting right now, unless I'm forgetting someone.

Really? Better than Naisar? I've seen Iakimen in sketchy duel/rampage/spar deathsights with a loss. Only ever seen damage leaning from him. Though... those are the only two runewardens that even fight nowadays. Apart from Anedhel, I guess

Eld

Xer said:

@Eld - Wait until I make an Acciaccatura/Epteth/Vibrato macro - L2 and L1 armbreak simulatneously <.<

Actually, that'd probably be really good for me, as it would kick me over the line from being really frustrated to just qq'ing and doing something productive. My wife will thank you.

Valdus

Who would you guys suggest as Paladin combatants worth researching?

Jovolo

Spire, Ellodin, Voy, Kalvon. Don't forget that the fundamentals across Paladin and Runie are very similar, and the knowledge transferrable. When runies go for a disembowel, they have the passive damage of hugalaz going for them, as well as increased speed, whereas Paladins get +2 strength on dsb damage itself, passive damage from demons (lesser extent than hugalaz) and the follow up of purity/arc. They are similar in their goals, but they have different ways of going about it.

Iakimen

Jovolo said:

Iakimen is probably the best runie that's actively fighting right now, unless I'm forgetting someone.

Really? Better than Naisar? I've seen Iakimen in sketchy duel/rampage/spar deathsights with a loss. Only ever seen damage leaning from him. Though... those are the only two runewardens that even fight nowadays. Apart from Anedhel, I guess

A few points I'd like to address.

1. Who is Salik?

2. My rapiers are not exceptional. Notably, Naisar has rapiers roughly equal to mine, and one clearly superior. I do tend to hurt as a strength specced Runewarden with runes, fury, and mastery. yes. That is, so I've heard, the point. Judging from a previous log where you posted my damage, you also seem to have a poor suit of ringmail and no passive resistances to cutting damage - no SoA, likely no avoidance, runes, TFs, etc. Correct me if I am wrong.

3. I am puzzled as to why someone I have only encountered in group situations seem to assume knowledge on my 1v1 tactics. I don't prep you during forest/raid defense, no. I apologize for the inconvenience my untargeted dsls may have caused.

4. Aye, I lose Rampages more often than not. Practice makes perfect! I'll get there eventually.

Jovolo

The point of wanting to read logs is not to see curare/randomVenom with a rune stack until the opponent falls over; It gets kills, yes, but is' far from skillful and it's far from interesting to read as we established from a certain Runewarden posting at the beginning of Combat Logs thread. 

You sound suspiciously like a more eloquent medium of Salik... :>

Valdus

Jovolo said:

Spire, Ellodin, Voy, Kalvon. Don't forget that the fundamentals across Paladin and Runie are very similar, and the knowledge transferrable. When runies go for a disembowel, they have the passive damage of hugalaz going for them, as well as increased speed, whereas Paladins get +2 strength on dsb damage itself, passive damage from demons (lesser extent than hugalaz) and the follow up of purity/arc. They are similar in their goals, but they have different ways of going about it.

What's the Paladin instakill? I know Vivisect, but I've never known a Paladin to get one unique to them. Must be a purely Achaean feature. Very interesting.

Jovolo

It's called Damnation. It requires a broken head, and hellsight. As soon as you have balance and your opponent meets the requirement, you can damn them. Hellsight is cured by smoking elm, which means they must have asthma stuck for the full duration of hellsight eq (around 2.5 seconds). It's fairly difficult but not impossible, mostly against fitnessers, though disembowel is still very strong as a Paladin and they have several methods of killing. 

Achilles

Jovolo said:

It's called Damnation. It requires a broken head, and hellsight. As soon as you have balance and your opponent meets the requirement, you can damn them. Hellsight is cured by smoking elm, which means they must have asthma stuck for the full duration of hellsight eq (around 2.5 seconds). It's fairly difficult but not impossible, mostly against fitnessers, though disembowel is still very strong as a Paladin and they have several methods of killing. 

It actually a lot more complicated than this.  You need to dsl to break head (1.5-2s depending on rapiers), with a diadem you can hellsight in 2.2s, so we are talking about sticking asthma for approximately 4s (which is just about when they get back salve balance), you really need to break another limb first to take away salve balance.

Essentially you need to stick weariness (vernalius), sensitivity (prefarar), clumsiness (xentio), asthma (kalmia) aka stack kelp afflictions and hope they dont cure asthma and focus weariness.  If they are an non-fitness class you can possibly do without one of those (aside from asthma), if they impossible to stack afflictions on (ahem priest) or are a serpent (shrugging) then its not viable unless cleansing strips shrugging or with mana drain techniques.

Because it's pretty difficult to stack that many venoms and the fact you can fitness/tree the kelp afflictions most Paladins have never actually successfully damned anyone (in the last 2 years the list of people who have damned someone in live combat is at maybe 5 people) and because DSB is a much easier option (unartied Paladins can easily get up to 18-20 strength).

Cynlael

@Iakimen: Salik was the most godly runewarden to ever show his face in Achaea.



If you think I'm serious, I'm not. He had 2 rapiers somewhere around 260(?) speed, and just constantly spammed curare/prefarar for like 1100 DSLs.
edit: Damage was pre-sensitivity.

Wessux

Thought I would post since I'm the only person I know who teaches knight combat in game. Feel free to find me if you want a few pointers, but here are the basics I guess. @Valdus

Lets start with weapons. To be pull of most strategies I can think of you need rapiers with 235 speed (after runes). I've not found a need for faster other than opening up your window for error. Try and get more damage and good to hit. The best rapiers I've ever owned are 74 150 227 (before runes). Some people may say those are good, some may say they are bad. I don't care, they rock for me.

Next, venoms. I hate using double epteth, it's not fun to get constantly hit by it so I try not to do it. The kelp stack is the best method I've found for hindering, damaging, and all around annoyance. Using curare/kalmia, curare/xentio, and curare/prefarar works like a charm. Throw in some curare/darkshade and curare/euphorbia, possibly curare/monkshood can really stack on damage, and quickly. With good damage and constant rotating your opponent will quickly be forced on the defensive or forced to run.

Now the Prep. Assuming you have 235 speed you can two leg disembowel someone. Very important because it is much harder to tumble from that than two leg and an arm, and they can't just simply shield when you break it either. Really you just want to do either a couple of kelp rotations with darkshade and euphorbia in there to just before you execute the setup. It's usually enough predamage to kill even the tankiest of players. If not you can always start sketching thurisaz a few times, end with a hugalaz, and then go to town. I almost killed @Eld with a no torso damage disembowel just because they stacked so much damage so quickly.

Bypassing parry can be a challenge, but I can think of about 12 different ways I do it. So with practice and some hints you should be able to get passed even the most anal of parryers. I'm wounded on one said my name as a good runie combatant (;_;)


Again this was a simplish explanation and I've probably missed several things in this.

Exelethril

@Valdus : I'm not into combat anymore but these are some old Paladin finishers of mine you can refer to.

• Damnation - Link 
  
• Disembowel - Link
• Keeping evaders still - Link
• Dragon kill - Link

Ellodin

it's like machinery - the less moving parts, the less likely to break.  keep it simple, there's no such thing as "skill" in achaean combat, only knowledge, consideration, and execution.  takes 0 practice if you've thought everything out.