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Remove the 180cr daily limit on Credit - > Lesson conversion.

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  • JonnersJonners Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited August 2013
    Did you all miss the bound in bold? You wouldn't be able to trade these on the market. I agree with everything else, corpses etc., but lessons are not the same. The only way to get 'spendable' lessons is by credits, iron elite, or levelling and you can't tell me the return on lessons for levelling is fast enough it would screw the credit market up, even if these were unbound.

    Also I don't think it should be a 6 lessons equals 1 bound credit. There should be a loss on the return I would think 10per would be fair.
    ~
    You close your eyes momentarily and extend the range of your vision, seeking out the presence of Drugs. 
    Though too far away to accurately perceive details, you see that Drugs is in Mhaldor.
    EldKyrraSylvanceKatzchen
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,397 Achaean staff
    Not a chance.
  • KatzchenKatzchen MhaldorMember Posts: 2,000 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jonners said:
    Did you all miss the bound in bold? You wouldn't be able to trade these on the market. I agree with everything else, corpses etc., but lessons are not the same. The only way to get 'spendable' lessons is by credits, iron elite, or levelling and you can't tell me the return on lessons for levelling is fast enough it would screw the credit market up, even if these were unbound.

    Also I don't think it should be a 6 lessons equals 1 bound credit. There should be a loss on the return I would think 10per would be fair.
    If they are bound, they will still effect credit market prices. People who would otherwise have bought credits will be able to obtain them elsewhere, so while it's not producing extra supply, it would be reducing demand.


                   Honourable, knight eternal,

                                            Darkly evil, cruel infernal.

                                                                     Necromanctic to the core,

                                                                                             Dance with death forever more.



  • SylvanceSylvance Member Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I smell troll.
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • JonnersJonners Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I'm not trolling. I honestly think this is a good idea. Sarapis disagrees though and this is his sandbox so that's enough for me.
    ~
    You close your eyes momentarily and extend the range of your vision, seeking out the presence of Drugs. 
    Though too far away to accurately perceive details, you see that Drugs is in Mhaldor.
    Sylvance
  • MannimarMannimar Member Posts: 973
    It's not that it's a bad idea to a player, but it would effect the business model of IRE. By reducing credit demand by allowing that kind of exchange, you not only effect the in game credit market, but also the livelihood of @Sarapis, @Tecton, and the other IRE employees by reducing the appeal of the credits for cash purchases.
    SarapisYaeAntidas
  • JonnersJonners Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Doesn't Iron Elite all ready do that by providing cheaper credits and lessons for an ongoing fee? They get a steady customer but their margin is lower. This also reduces the demand on the credit market as IE members will wait for their next batch rather than buying off market.

    The only people I could see using this extensively are omni-trans people, especially with the declining exchange rate. Yes there would be an initial blowout but with levelling and iron elite being the only ways of gaining lessons aside from the exchange of credits this would allow omni iron elite members to get use out of their otherwise useless lessons.

    So for someone who levels to dragon that's just under 500 lessons. Potentially 50 credits under my proposal. Obviously though the majority of these go to actual learning as the time vs effort for credits this way would be a losing proposition. Far far far faster to just quest or bash for gold and buy them off market.

    For someone who is an omnitrans Iron Elite member they gain 1 extra credit every two RL days for an average of 15 per month. As IE members all ready buy credits from the credit market for use less often than non-members,(I assume with clear reasoning) this won't overly affect the in-game market.

    Otherwise, even with your initial bonus lessons you are still losing lessons on the conversion back to bound credits. Ten or even fifteen lessons per bound credit would not be something everyone would participate in because the sources for lessons are extremely small, for a good reason, but it would prevent omnitrans first world problems.
    ~
    You close your eyes momentarily and extend the range of your vision, seeking out the presence of Drugs. 
    Though too far away to accurately perceive details, you see that Drugs is in Mhaldor.
  • KyrraKyrra Sanctum of the SkyMember Posts: 4,797 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dude, so not true.

    As someone with Iron Elite membership, I still buy craploads of credits almost every week and I probably buy just as many off CFS as well.

    If anything, I appreciate the 25% experience gain the most.
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • JonnersJonners Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    So you're saying your participation level in the in-game market wouldn't change overly even if you did get an extra fifteen or less bound credits per RL month? Kind of makes my point.
    ~
    You close your eyes momentarily and extend the range of your vision, seeking out the presence of Drugs. 
    Though too far away to accurately perceive details, you see that Drugs is in Mhaldor.
  • MannimarMannimar Member Posts: 973
    edited August 2013
    Kyrra is also one of the biggest spenders in Achaea (at least from what I've gathered from posts and rumours). You need to look at the players that make up the majority of the purchases which would most likely be something along the lines of monthly purchases if that...

    I also have a membership and make occasional purchases, but I would factor your proposed change into my plans and other credit sources, and I would gladly put off any artefact purchase if my free credit income increased.

    If 100 people also took that into account when purchasing credits, and assuming that caused them spend $10 less per month. Thats $1000. multiply that across five games (not that the change would take place in every game) and they're losing 5 grand a month, or $60,000 a year. For a company as small as Iron Realms thats a huge amount of money. 

    Now, we don't know how the change would truly affect the profits of Achaea, but the chance of losing $12,000 a year would not be a very exciting venture.
    KyrraJurixe
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,397 Achaean staff
    Like you say, @Mannimar, $60k is an enormous amount of money to us. Heck, even $10k is a lot of money to us.
    KyrraMannimarJiaeraejunjiAveri
  • JonnersJonners Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited August 2013
    I never thought Achaea was about 'sell something worthless so we can make a buck' but paying for lessons, one way or the other, and then not being able to use them isn't cool. That's my problem. I'm not particularly picky about how it's fixed.
    ~
    You close your eyes momentarily and extend the range of your vision, seeking out the presence of Drugs. 
    Though too far away to accurately perceive details, you see that Drugs is in Mhaldor.
  • XliXli Member Posts: 354 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Jonners said:
    I never thought Achaea was about 'sell something worthless so we can make a buck' but paying for lessons, one way or the other, and then not being able to use them isn't cool. That's my problem. I'm not particularly picky about how it's fixed.
    Stop paying for them?
    Hiroma tells you, "I just got to listen to someone complain about your deadly axekick being the bane of their existence."
    Archdragon Mizik Corten, Herald of Ruin says, "Man, that was a big axk."
    Hellrazor Cain de Soulis, Sartan's Hammer says, "Your [sic] a beast."
  • SylvanceSylvance Member Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Xli said:
    Jonners said:
    I never thought Achaea was about 'sell something worthless so we can make a buck' but paying for lessons, one way or the other, and then not being able to use them isn't cool. That's my problem. I'm not particularly picky about how it's fixed.
    Stop paying for them?
    That's hardly constructive, @Xli
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
    Peak
  • XliXli Member Posts: 354 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Nor is flogging a dead horse. @Sarapis has already said not going to happen. Case closed, surely?
    Hiroma tells you, "I just got to listen to someone complain about your deadly axekick being the bane of their existence."
    Archdragon Mizik Corten, Herald of Ruin says, "Man, that was a big axk."
    Hellrazor Cain de Soulis, Sartan's Hammer says, "Your [sic] a beast."
  • JonnersJonners Member Posts: 475 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited August 2013
    @Sarapis said what I proposed isn't going to happen. That doesn't mean he won't take the core of my argument to heart and figure something else out, I hope.

    Not paying for them isn't an option for Iron Elite. You get it with the whole package and the rest of the package is enticing enough that people are willing to get useless lessons for the rest of the benefits.
    ~
    You close your eyes momentarily and extend the range of your vision, seeking out the presence of Drugs. 
    Though too far away to accurately perceive details, you see that Drugs is in Mhaldor.
  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    There may be new skills released in the future. In fact, it's probably, rather than possible.

    There may come a time where you wish to change class.

    Lessons are far from useless, even for Omni trans people.



    Viva la Bluef.
    NemutaurKyrra
  • SantarSantar Member Posts: 2,382 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Just change class for a while and then change back if you want to do something with your lessons.

    Who doesn't like changing class?

    image

    FlorentinoNim
  • MannimarMannimar Member Posts: 973
    edited August 2013
    @Tecton said he's planning to pull most crafting skills away from the classes, so while new classes aren't on the current to-do list. New skills definitely are. So there will be somewhere to dump those credits soon. 

    If you're looking for something to drop lessons, you have to decide what their in game value is, and the only possible thing I could suggest is horrible trinkets with a small decay time. Hell, I don't even like the idea as I type it.

    Jonners said:
    I never thought Achaea was about 'sell something worthless so we can make a buck' 
    That's hardly the case when you consider the numbers. It's the difference between keeping an employee or firing one.

    I do, however, agree that there could be something useful in creating a lesson sink other than skills, but the struggle is finding something appropriate that would also have a consistent use. Lessons should not become gold, or credits, and while I would be amused to see what the days of lesson gambling were like, I think that would upset too many players to be an effective alternative.

    Perhaps a toll to get to special hunting areas? Honestly, there this enough up and coming for spending lessons that you can empty your lesson pool on.
  • SylvanceSylvance Member Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited August 2013
    Mannimar said:
    I do, however, agree that there could be something useful in creating a lesson sink other than skills, but the struggle is finding something appropriate that would also have a consistent use. Lessons should not become gold, or credits, and while I would be amused to see what the days of lesson gambling were like, I think that would upset too many players to be an effective alternative.

    Perhaps a toll to get to special hunting areas? Honestly, there this enough up and coming for spending lessons that you can empty your lesson pool on.
    Make a game system called Epiphany. You spend (100?) lessons and choose from one of the following, as your character has an IG moment of clarity (kinda similar to golden ages in Civilisation, but I digress):

    1.5 textperience bonus
    5% crit bonus
    +1 to one stat
    etc

    They should last a few hours to make it a real sink. Can't remember why this was shot down the first time I suggested it; no doubt someone will remind me :)

    ETA: If it even needs to be said, only one Epiphany at a time, and some kind of cooldown.
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
  • JonathinJonathin Retirement hole.Member Posts: 3,323 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited August 2013
    What ever happened to Epiphany? I forgot about her. That and hip she who shall not be named. And uhh... that one ridiculously annoying Corten guy. Man, so many people I forgot about that made me laugh.

    My site will remain up, but will not be maintained. The repository will continue to have scripts added to it if I decide to play another game. Maybe I'll see you around in Starmourn!
    Tutorials and scripts  The Repository

    Sylvance
  • CardanCardan The GardenMember Posts: 437 Immortal
    Just for the record, I've already coded up the setting of this limit past where it should be a problem for anyone like the other games did. It'll be loaded up as part of a few other changes sometime after all the CTF fun.
    ValdusSylvanceKatzchen
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    Mannimar said:
    @Tecton said he's planning to pull most crafting skills away from the classes, so while new classes aren't on the current to-do list. New skills definitely are. So there will be somewhere to dump those credits soon. 

    Wait, what?
    Sylvance
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Jules said:
    Mannimar said:
    @Tecton said he's planning to pull most crafting skills away from the classes, so while new classes aren't on the current to-do list. New skills definitely are. So there will be somewhere to dump those credits soon. 

    Wait, what?
    http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/1286/terraforming-updates-june-2013/p1
    Jules
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited August 2013
    Okay, that's pretty darn cool.  It also sounds like the new forging is going to be something like I've been hoping for almost since I started playing.  Wow.

    EDIT:  Might have to go buy those SPs if they go on sale again...
    Sylvance
  • CardanCardan The GardenMember Posts: 437 Immortal
    Credit limit should be gone now (or at least at a point where it doesn't matter).
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