Any class any house

Jespar

so i had this idea earlier, that you should be able to join any house while being any class.

of course there would be restrictions like no Infernals in like the Sentinels for example BUT if a city accepts a class they should be able to pick a house to join not just have to join one just because there is no other house to join in that city

for example i am a Blademaster and applying for the city of Eleusis and the Sylvans, i wanted to join the Sentinels over the Sylvans because the Sylvans is a house of Scholars and they value knowledge and stuff whereas the sentinels are a bit more combat based

yes i know that you can still be involved with combat in a scholar house yada yada but im sure you all get the gist that you should be able to join any house in the city you belong to, would give more aspects to the roleplay side of it aswell

Nizaris

Why is this needed, or an improvement over the present system?

Quite frankly, I will say this: I am of the opinion that Houses improved in their RP when they started REMOVING classes, rather than adding them. I can think of quite a bit of gain to be had with my own house by removing two classes in particular, but that is neither here nor there. Could an Infernal fit with the Blood Congregation? How would the Occultists House benefit from accepting monks? (Should you choose to answer, please answer in terms of how that House's ethos and ideology would be enhanced) How would players benefit from having fewer people to teach them, within their own House, that matched their same class, because the limited members of their class had been spread amongst the other houses in their city?

What will Houses even MEAN when this is the case?

I'm sorry, but this idea has been suggested many times before, and has been denied every time. You fail to make a compelling point why it should be seriously considered this time, beyond an inconvenience experienced by yourself.

Eld

Just to be clear, you're aware that this has been the case in the past and was abandoned, right?

Karai

If only the Lotus could loan our Master Crystal.

A compromise could be to have at least one or two classes specific to a House, and the rest can go anywhere but that would get very convoluted. What was supposed to happen with Targossas' Houses?

Eld

Karai said:

If only the Lotus could loan our Master Crystal.

A compromise could be to have at least one or two classes specific to a House, and the rest can go anywhere but that would get very convoluted. What was supposed to happen with Targossas' Houses?

They're supposed to be getting some eventually.

Jonathin

Stuff was supposed to happen with our houses. I don't really want to say more because I heard it second hand and I'm not even sure if I'm supposed to know (if it's true).

Zii

Boo on this idea.  It sucked when Houses first came around, it will suck again.

Mandatory Houses, instead.

Jespar

Eld said:

Just to be clear, you're aware that this has been the case in the past and was abandoned, right?

no i wasnt, sorry for my ignorance guise

Achimrst

Jespar said:

Eld said:

Just to be clear, you're aware that this has been the case in the past and was abandoned, right?

no i wasnt, sorry for my ignorance guise

You were trying, that's all that matters.

Korben

This is not a bad idea in itself, but it won't work for Houses because of their history.

Houses started as guilds, which were single class and structured around that class. A House's original class is still a huge part of what most Houses are today, and the closer they stick to that, the better for their sense of identity.

Antonius

@Korben That's a matter of opinion. Personally I think the majority of guilds didn't have a strong enough identity pre-Houses for that to be worth holding on to.

Silas

Eld said:

Karai said:

If only the Lotus could loan our Master Crystal.

A compromise could be to have at least one or two classes specific to a House, and the rest can go anywhere but that would get very convoluted. What was supposed to happen with Targossas' Houses?

They're supposed to be getting some eventually.

You cut me deep, Shrek.

Re: the idea: it should be up to the Houses how they want to run things, rather than it ever being up to the individual. If a House wants to restrict themselves to a single class (like the Naga) that should be allowed; if a House wants to open themselves up to many/all classes (like the Crown Merchants) that should likewise be allowed.

Without the silliness that was House influence playing a part in anything meaningful anymore, I see no drawbacks to this system.

Nemutaur

I really want to be able to choose what classes my house accepts. The Ashura should be about combat and it shouldn't matter too much what class you are. Of course there will be some inter-house agreements that we wouldn't accept classes like Occultists, Magi and Serpents because those three have their traditional houses in Ashtan.

Basically, I just really want to be able to get Runies back into the Ashura.

Kyrra

The Warlocks of the Rising Phoenix are elemental practitioners who swear
oaths of blood and fire to strengthen themselves and protect Ashtan, the
city which is their home, fortress, and sacred charge. The House was
forged through the heat of war and remains a powerful military force,
harnessing flame and stone to bring down destruction upon its foes.

The often militant group of war mages and mystics pursues strength
through discipline, triumph through tenacity and sheer overwhelming
force. Every blade must be honed, they profess, and every art must be
perfected. They hold loyalty and strength chief among virtues, for the
fire that shines bright but soon burns to ash is worse than useless.

Warlocks are descendants of the ancient Royal Battlemages of Ashtan,
their knowledge and power cut short in the Fall of Seleucar. The last
known battlemage pledged his lifesblood to protect Ashtan from
destruction, and the Warlocks are heirs to those all-consuming oaths.
They swear in blood to guard the slumbering volcanic caldera deep
beneath the Bastion, lest the lanterns go out and the guardian phoenix
awaken to make its funeral pyre in the slagged ruins of the burning
city.
----------------------------
The class of Runewardens first originated in the city of Cyrene, deep within
the snow-clad mountains of the Southern Vashnars. Although the Runewarden
House resides in Cyrene, the skills of the class are not inherently bound
to any one ethos. A Runewarden Knight is usually welcome in any city as long
as he or she is willing to live by that city's laws.

Their totems can also be wielded for use in combat, but Runewardens
generally eschew this use in favour of their beloved blades. Strengthened
with runes and usually dripping with coated venoms, the flashing dual blades
of a Runewarden are a magnificent sight in full combat. Discipline and
honour are the watchwords of a Runewarden, and the movement of their
formations on the battlefield can be a dazzling sight indeed.

Why oh why, are is there a knight class in a house of mages and shamans and apparently alchemists?

Seriously?

Sylvance

Yep. There has got to be a sensible between a free-for-all that destroys the small amount of sense currently exists in the present system and... the present rigidity that makes equally no case in some instances.

Putting this in the hands of House/City Patrons would be a decent backstop... although is it a stock-answer NO at the moment if it were agreed with Patrons?

Jonathin

Kyrra said:

stuff

Yeah. Erhon (at the end of his tenure), and I both worked hard to keep the House as a sort of "house of mystics" but when Phe, Andraste, and Askiva took over, it just started making no sense whatsoever.

Vyn

Jespar said:

so i had this idea earlier, that you should be able to join any house while being any class.

of course there would be restrictions like no Infernals in like the Sentinels for example BUT if a city accepts a class they should be able to pick a house to join not just have to join one just because there is no other house to join in that city

for example i am a Blademaster and applying for the city of Eleusis and the Sylvans, i wanted to join the Sentinels over the Sylvans because the Sylvans is a house of Scholars and they value knowledge and stuff whereas the sentinels are a bit more combat based

yes i know that you can still be involved with combat in a scholar house yada yada but im sure you all get the gist that you should be able to join any house in the city you belong to, would give more aspects to the roleplay side of it aswell

Knowledge is power. Honestly. Ask any Naga.

The idea itself doesn't make sense, though. If we had an occultist, or a runewarden in the house, our focus would no longer be on the Elements.

Shindo, Elementalism, Harmonics, Curses.

Our House focuses on heavy RP around Nature and the Elements. If we had a runewarden join in, sure he could associate it with his Runelore, but the RP element would be tougher to make. While a Blademaster who has the power of Shindo/Striking (Fire, Air, Water/Ice, Void) would be a better aspect. For us, each class is thought out why we would accept them into our House.

And by the way, we have a combat program. Not like we go without combat in a House..

Jonners

Sylvance said:

Yep. There has got to be a sensible between a free-for-all that destroys the small amount of sense currently exists in the present system and... the present rigidity that makes equally no case in some instances.

Putting this in the hands of House/City Patrons would be a decent backstop... although is it a stock-answer NO at the moment if it were agreed with Patrons?

I think you hit it right on the head. The Patrons, with guidance from the Admin, along with input from House Leadership should be responsible for what classes are and are not available within a House. The various Houses and Patrons within a city should work together to find something that provides flexibility without being stupid.

Also, why can't there just be an extra step for people that don't necessarily fit the standard classes of a particular House? Each House could define this themselves. Once again with help, and more importantly guidance, from their Patron, with some exceptions being an outright no, obviously.

I just don't like seeing classes stuck with one City or only one House as an option for them to explore their character. Not all classed Druids or Sylvans believe in those Houses. I completely agree that Forestals not in line with Oakstone should be restricted somewhat, and enemies moreso, but restrictions in choice of City or House, in general, that's just dumb imho.

Jespar

Vyn said:

Jespar said:

so i had this idea earlier, that you should be able to join any house while being any class.

of course there would be restrictions like no Infernals in like the Sentinels for example BUT if a city accepts a class they should be able to pick a house to join not just have to join one just because there is no other house to join in that city

for example i am a Blademaster and applying for the city of Eleusis and the Sylvans, i wanted to join the Sentinels over the Sylvans because the Sylvans is a house of Scholars and they value knowledge and stuff whereas the sentinels are a bit more combat based

yes i know that you can still be involved with combat in a scholar house yada yada but im sure you all get the gist that you should be able to join any house in the city you belong to, would give more aspects to the roleplay side of it aswell

Knowledge is power. Honestly. Ask any Naga.

The idea itself doesn't make sense, though. If we had an occultist, or a runewarden in the house, our focus would no longer be on the Elements.

Shindo, Elementalism, Harmonics, Curses.

Our House focuses on heavy RP around Nature and the Elements. If we had a runewarden join in, sure he could associate it with his Runelore, but the RP element would be tougher to make. While a Blademaster who has the power of Shindo/Striking (Fire, Air, Water/Ice, Void) would be a better aspect. For us, each class is thought out why we would accept them into our House.

And by the way, we have a combat program. Not like we go without combat in a House..

i said that you can still be involved in combat with a scholar house, its just maybe the sylvans arent what i want my blademaster to ROLEPLAY as i would prefer him to be a straight warrior and not be sitting around reading scrolls (yes i realise this is not what you do in the sylvans) but that is how it would look if i were to roleplay that house, i couldnt, for example, go into that house and then just reject studying stuff.

Korben

Antonius said:

Personally I think the majority of guilds didn't have a strong enough identity pre-Houses for that to be worth holding on to.

Supposing you are right, the consequence would be the end of Houses (or at the very least, the end of the current Houses and the birth of new ones). The transition from guilds was an opportunity for them to re-invent themselves, but AFAIK only the Merchants did that. The rest held on to their history and identity and adapted those to the new circumstances. If we throw that away there won't be any reason to keep Houses.

Just to make it clear, I'm not arguing that we should keep Houses as they are right now. In fact, I think we need less Houses per city and the question of class vs. House is going to be a factor in that. I'm just considering the consequences of some of the proposed changes.

Nemutaur

Korben said:

Antonius said:

Personally I think the majority of guilds didn't have a strong enough identity pre-Houses for that to be worth holding on to.

Just to make it clear, I'm not arguing that we should keep Houses as they are right now. In fact, I think we need less Houses per city and the question of class vs. House is going to be a factor in that. I'm just considering the consequences of some of the proposed changes.

How would you cut down on the amount of houses in Ashtan for example. The Ashura are warriors and specialise in combat. The Warlocks study elements and protect Ashtan from that stupid Phoenix. The Occultists are the factional house of the city (Chaos). The Shadowsnakes represent the spying, thieving, infiltrating and general subterfuge side.

The bare minimum of houses (if we stick with themes here) would be 3 I think. One Factional house, so all forestals in one, all devotionalists in one etc. One Warrior house, stick all those who like combat in there. One house that focusses on rituals, studying and philosophy.

Kyrra

Should just let the Warlocks go and sic the Phoenix on another city.

Sacrifice for the greater good and all that.

Mizik

I wish

Eld

Nemutaur said:

The bare minimum of houses (if we stick with themes here) would be 3 I think. One Factional house, so all forestals in one, all devotionalists in one etc. One Warrior house, stick all those who like combat in there. One house that focusses on rituals, studying and philosophy.

There's no reason you need a separate house for each of those, though, and in a lot of ways it doesn't make sense to. Especially the idea of a "factional house" for each city just seems silly. If you want your houses to be closely tied to your city, they should all be "factional". Otherwise you end up with one house that basically embodies the ethos of the city, and two or three other houses that just do what they do, and could do it just as well in any of the cities; to some extent that's how things have been in Hashan, and we're working really hard to change that, because it sucks. Would seem much better (for the cities with multiple factional classes) to have one house loosely based around each of them, so that the houses are focused on the central ethos of the city, but approach it from different angles (as seems to be roughly the case currently with the sentinels and sylvans in Eleusis or the Congregation and the Maaldathi in Mhaldor).

Jonners

After the uStream yesterday I'm inclined to wait to see what the Targossan Houses/New Novice System look like before speculating further. From the sounds of things it should be much different from the current status quo.

Eld

The 2 seconds of Q&A drove that home after the months of forum discussions failed to clue you in?

Jonners

I knew there were changes to the novice system coming. I frankly didn't pay attention to Targossas enough since I've been back to notice they didn't have Houses. So I didn't realise they were revamping them, no.

Korben

Eld said:

Otherwise you end up with one house that basically embodies the ethos of the city, and two or three other houses that just do what they do, and could do it just as well in any of the cities; to some extent that's how things have been in Hashan, and we're working really hard to change that, because it sucks.

It's been like that since I joined the game in 2003.

Tarkanian

Kyrra said:

Why oh why, are is there a knight class in a house of mages and shamans and apparently alchemists? 

Seriously?

because runes are magic, y'all.

Synbios

Kyrra said:

Should just let the Warlocks go and sic the Phoenix on another city.

Sacrifice for the greater good and all that.

@Kyrra: Phoenix + Targossas's Eusian Falls = best sauna ever

Antonius

Korben said:

Eld said:

Otherwise you end up with one house that basically embodies the ethos of the city, and two or three other houses that just do what they do, and could do it just as well in any of the cities; to some extent that's how things have been in Hashan, and we're working really hard to change that, because it sucks.

It's been like that since I joined the game in 2003.


That's partly mechanical since there was a push to have monk, serpent and magi guilds in most cities. When your identity is being the X class guild in Y city and you just carry that over to Houses the end result likely isn't going to be good.