Not sure what I am doing wrong as a blademaster

Lilian

So I spent a greater part of the day trying to practice executing brokenstar in Sanya (I only picked Sanya cause I was fighting another blademaster, and it was his level 3 band against my level 1, I figured it would be the better option to slow him down.) Since this will also help me do this sort of thing when I have to go in Mir to survive monks or knights damage. 

http://pastebin.com/CxaQBCgD

anyways here is me attempted to quad break him. I follow it up with an impale and then impaleslash, and as you can see I only get a very few amount of blade twists and I have my level 1 band equiped. (sorry for no time stamps I didn't have them at the time )

and then here is him doing it:  http://pastebin.com/xTR8RRec - he manages to get me to 1000 bleed, in Sanya with no band at all. (Also SVO is not curing my legs right which let him get an extra twist in and I don't know HOW to fix that) in my attempt I only got him to 400 bleed..

So I am very confused as to what I am personally doing wrong during my execution that means I can't do this with a level 1 band, compared to his which let him do it unbanded..and if I need to I can go and get logs of me doing it with time stamps now. (I removed grip from my attacks, I have a fish sigil, I don't even know why I was using grip.)

Orzaansyn

What you are doing wrong is to be Cyrenian. The Monastery can help you. Join us.

Lilian

http://pastebin.com/A7sCBC3L and now with time stamps, with a total of 422 bleeding!..and I don't think the issue is my choice of city.

Valynard

As far as I can see, there's about a .4, .5 second delay between you recovering balance and then attacking. That will slow down what you can do pretty drastically when it consistently happens throughout your setup, so work on chasing balance more. On one of the bladetwists, you had a full second before you even bladetwisted, and considered bladetwist is only a second of balance, you've completely missed out on the opportunity for another bladetwist, so it's pretty significant.

Lilian

Hmm I didn't realize I was wasting that much time, I normally spam my bladetwist key, but seeing as how I had been doing it all day I guess I got a bit less spammy with it so I can make my logs readable. I'll work on that for now then, thank you.

Sylvance

Please post any updates on your learning; I'm having exactly the same problem with my BM.

Seftin

Pm me and il try explain and we can test IG arena.

Tesha

Anicetus is one of the most artied blademasters out there. What you did wrong was treat him as you might treat a non-artied person. That setup might kill anyone without robes etc. but you will need further prep against people who do. Voidfist/paralyse/impale/impaleslash and try to get a free twist if you can. Then do your double arm break, break legs, and go nuts. 

You can also go for torso instead. What I would suggest is using lightning to prep with (epilepsy = focus = mana drain) and striking neck until you really need to prone. Break torso on the last hit, then double break arms, then legs, and you should have enough time. Blademaster is a very time sensitive class, so start trying to attack a second or so before you get balance back.

Good luck!

Dunn

Pre impale slash, break arms/hamstring, break legs/knees, impale, twist away, bstar. Never had a robe issue with that setup. That setup also can work on people without robes and you don't need the pre slash for it. Can do it before the twists. Since most people run on impaleslash (necessity), I found setups that didn't rely on pre slash to be the most successful. Edit: macro blade twist so you can mash the f- out of it. That's how I managed to not miss twists.

Cooper

You're waiting forever after getting balance back to attack again.

You also have the bladetwist message triggered to use discern, which means you get eq after balance and that slows you down a ton.

You have to hold down the attack keys BEFORE you regain balance.

Eld

As others have said, chasing balance better is probably the biggest thing. Regarding the curing issue in the first log, if you haven't updated your svo recently, that'd probably be the first thing to try - there were some changes to mending curing relatively recently that might have thrown it off, I think.

Tesha said:

Anicetus is one of the most artied blademasters out there. What you did wrong was treat him as you might treat a non-artied person. That setup might kill anyone without robes etc. but you will need further prep against people who do. Voidfist/paralyse/impale/impaleslash and try to get a free twist if you can. Then do your double arm break, break legs, and go nuts. 

You can also go for torso instead. What I would suggest is using lightning to prep with (epilepsy = focus = mana drain) and striking neck until you really need to prone. Break torso on the last hit, then double break arms, then legs, and you should have enough time. Blademaster is a very time sensitive class, so start trying to attack a second or so before you get balance back.

Good luck!

It's not the arties that were making that not work. An impaleslash and two bladetwists isn't going to be enough for a brokenstar on basically anyone. Torso damage is definitely a good idea. Personally, I've never seen all that much difference from prepping with focus affs, but I'm also a newb, so maybe I just didn't notice or something. 

Cooper said:

You're waiting forever after getting balance back to attack again.

You also have the bladetwist message triggered to use discern, which means you get eq after balance and that slows you down a ton.

You have to hold down the attack keys BEFORE you regain balance.

I've never found the slight delay from triggering discern on bladetwist to be enough to make a difference between getting one more twist on an impale and not. I guess it might be worse with a worse ping, though. The other option (assuming you're relying on discern) is to just send the bladetwist and discern together, but that's trickier to set up, since you don't want to throw just the discern if you get eq back before balance.

Lilian

@Tesha - He actually took off his artes for those tests except for his con belt as to not mess up the limb counter. Though I'll have to try preping with lightning, (He suggested I tried breaking with ice too) and at one point I was preping and breaking torso too.

@Dunn - I used to pre impale slash, but as you said you need to run on that so I was trying to learn to not need to pre impale due to that (specially if I have to fight in Mir) a lot of what you said is what I do in an actual combat situation, I think I'll have to try what Tesha said and mash my macros a second before I get balance back...that for make it bladetwist more times then needed

@Cooper - I don't know why in the log with Alrena I was getting EQ back AFTER balance, but a majority of the time I was getting EQ back before against Anicetus, probably had something to do with ping, but I know when I had it built into my blade twist that if I spammed it it'd use discern and keep me off EQ so I decided to trigger it instead (This is me going from never using it before and knowing 3 or 4 blade twists tend to be enough to bstar)

When Alrena and I were actually sparring (She was in Magi), I managed to kill her a couple of times with just pre-impaleslash and arm/ham, leg/neck but that was also in Thyr (Odd fact, I still wasn't fast enough in Thyr to not pre-impaleslash..)

So I'll try to make my blade twist macro more spammy, or just start spamming it sooner.

Mizik

Lilian said:

http://pastebin.com/A7sCBC3L and now with time stamps, with a total of 422 bleeding!..and I don't think the issue is my choice of city.

OH REALLY

Lilian

Mizik said:

Lilian said:

http://pastebin.com/A7sCBC3L and now with time stamps, with a total of 422 bleeding!..and I don't think the issue is my choice of city.

OH REALLY

YEAH REALLY - giggled though

Eld

One option for dealing with the discern trigger issue might be to send the bladetwist and discern commands together, rather than triggering it, but adding a check to your keybinding so that you only send the discern if you have both balance and equilibrium. 

As for the stance issue, as far as I know, stance doesn't affect balance times for impale, impaleslash, and bladetwist, so it might not make as big a difference as you expect (the difference in the armslash/legslash for the breaks between Mir and Thyr could still be significant).

Mizik

I only used to discern on impale.

Lilian

Eld said:

One option for dealing with the discern trigger issue might be to send the bladetwist and discern commands together, rather than triggering it, but adding a check to your keybinding so that you only send the discern if you have both balance and equilibrium. 

As for the stance issue, as far as I know, stance doesn't affect balance times for impale, impaleslash, and bladetwist, so it might not make as big a difference as you expect (the difference in the armslash/legslash for the breaks between Mir and Thyr could still be significant).

I'm not actually sure how to do something like that, my knowledge in this sort of thing is really basic. I'll see if it really was just latency making discern an issue.. Also apparently the SVO issue I was having was because of anti-illusions or something? Alrena was having the same issue against me and she turned hers off and suddenly it was working.. But anyways when I get on I shall do some more testing!

Lilian

Mizik said:

I only used to discern on impale.

I was considering doing this for when I have to do the second impale actually.

Valynard

According to those logs just triggering discern off impale all together looks better than every bladetwist. If you know how much bleeding you do on the bladetwists it will give you a rough gauge to work with on how much bleeding you're sticking, possibly?

Lilian

well I finally managed to pull off Bstar in Sanya without pre impaleslashing.. I think maybe doing 6 bladetwists a key press is a bit excessive but it definitely worked once I stopped messing up every little thing. (Namely @Kardal has sooo much health that my limb counter just is like ..umm.) definitely need to work on bladetwisting faster, doing it before recovering EQ like @Tesha suggested helped a lot

Cooper

Eld said:

One option for dealing with the discern trigger issue might be to send the bladetwist and discern commands together, rather than triggering it, but adding a check to your keybinding so that you only send the discern if you have both balance and equilibrium. 

I had this suggestion all typed up and ready to go and then I figured I'd better check to make sure no one else posted it, but then you did.

Lilian

Cooper said:

Eld said:

One option for dealing with the discern trigger issue might be to send the bladetwist and discern commands together, rather than triggering it, but adding a check to your keybinding so that you only send the discern if you have both balance and equilibrium. 

I had this suggestion all typed up and ready to go and then I figured I'd better check to make sure no one else posted it, but then you did.

Like I said, I had that at first, I was finding that when I needed to spam bladetwist, discern would get spammed and keep me off EQ even while I was regaining balance, for now I have it reflexed into impale and will see how that works out over a few real spars.

Eld

Lilian said:

Cooper said:

Eld said:

One option for dealing with the discern trigger issue might be to send the bladetwist and discern commands together, rather than triggering it, but adding a check to your keybinding so that you only send the discern if you have both balance and equilibrium. 

I had this suggestion all typed up and ready to go and then I figured I'd better check to make sure no one else posted it, but then you did.

Like I said, I had that at first, I was finding that when I needed to spam bladetwist, discern would get spammed and keep me off EQ even while I was regaining balance, for now I have it reflexed into impale and will see how that works out over a few real spars.

Yeah, that's why I added the bit about adding a check for balance before sending it, which you said you didn't know how to do. Anyway, see how just triggering it off impale works out, and if you need help setting up something more complex later, feel free to hit me up.

Daslin

Ask @Mizik. He knows all things.

Synbios

I might as well ask out of curiosity, but why trigger discern off impale?

Jovolo

Discern is considerably faster than impale (roughly twice the speed), so you lose nothing from it, while being able to assess roughly what their bleeding is at before you begin your bladetwists. As you typically impale twice during a brokenstar setup, it's a reliable method of determining how they are clotting, and when you can withdraw/sheathe/brokenstar.

Synbios

Hm, maybe I should try that.

Lilian

Yeah, what Jovolo said, also geeze I forgot this thread was a thing. Haven't had much time to do combat stuff but I'm a lot better about chasing balance for my bladetwists now which solved my problems. :x