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Time based afflictions

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  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bombs are supposed to be something of a venue to either execute a hindering combo or to stall the enemy while fashioning.
    The tough thing about puppetry is that you cannot start to do the long distance attacking until you've reached between 40-60 fashions, depending on what you're up to. We have to survive until that point, which bombs are good for if you don't want to continuously leave the room and irritate your opponent into ragequitting.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • BambizloBambizlo Member Posts: 74 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Well, the trouble is not so much bombs. They certainly have a usage. The problem is, however, that timed bombs really lost much of their usage now that they can be dropped in any state as long as the holder has balance/equilibrium. You'd have to rely either on the gimmicky trick of handing bombs over in blackout (which can be accounted for with some system tweaking) or have a sufficiently short timer to minimize the possibility of failed hand-offs: bombs put away in containers, handed back, dropped bombs, etc. (in which case, you may as well just lob a juggled bomb from an adjacent room).

    A possible solution would be for timed bombs to no longer be able to be put in packs or dropped. In its place, add an ability to defuse all the bombs in one's inventory at one time. It requires one to have balance/equilibrium and not prone, costs 3 secs of equilibrium. Bombs can still be handed back, of course...because, well, bomb hot-potato is funny. :)
  • DartegaDartega Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I agree that bombs are less potent than they used to bet, but tbf most things are. Y'all are giving bombs much less credit than they deserve. @terra get these scrub jesters out of here
    SylvanceAepasSilas
  • BambizloBambizlo Member Posts: 74 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited July 2013
    No one's undervaluing bombs. The only discussion was over timers, which at the least should not be able to be stored in a pack after being timed, as doing so is far too easily triggerable in a system without chance for counterplay, consequences, or ability to interrupt.

    Possibly allow whoever timed the bomb the ability to defuse at minimal balance cost (similar to the cost for dropping/giving a timed bomb).
    Post edited by Bambizlo on
  • MilitisMilitis Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Dartega is being a bit silly and counter-productive. Bombs are a large part of Pranks, and way too easily countered at the moment.

    It requires perfect execution and a stroke of luck to gain any ground when handing them off, my favorite was a 3 second fuse web bomb followed by hangedman. The way bombs are coded, to get a stack successfully lit and staggered in times to do anything useful with, it takes a bunch of advanced coding and configuring to even have a chance. Occies probably have more fun with bombs than anyone right now(passive afflictions).

    If one person is able to make use of bombs with any sort of accuracy, and I still doubt handing them off is part of that, it doesn't mean they sit where they should in terms of usefulness.

    How about a cooldown skill that allows the Jester to perfectly set fuses for the next 3-5 bombs they timer?
  • DartegaDartega Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Oh, yeah. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see an improvement to timed bombs and handoff. I'm just pretty sure they're not as bad as some people were saying. Carry on!
  • MilitisMilitis Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    You right, thanks for clarifying
    Dartega
  • MakoMako Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    hangedman and web stops bombs being handed off/put in pack. But I do agree  I like your fuse idea militis, timing bombs SUCKS
  • MilitisMilitis Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Correct. But they are going to be out of the web or hangedman before you regain balance to timer/hand off. That's why I said a perfectly executed web bomb(lucky time on fuse of 1 second) followed by hangedman was the only way to gain ground. Bomb blows up immediately in their inventory, you hangedman, they are double binded now, allowing you time to regain balance from throwing tarot to give more bombs. But it requires crazy timing and luck.
  • TerraTerra Member Posts: 676 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited July 2013

    "Only" is a very strong word.

    I don't think there is a need for perfectly timed bombs. Maybe +- 2 seconds instead of +- 3.

    I do agree that bombs are difficult to use relative to most other class abilities. To time more than one bomb at a time, you need some kind of system to track bombs. Since you can't perfectly time them, you have to base your offense around when they are going to explode, rather than the other way around. So, you have to track that too. And then you have to do a TIMER for a second balance, then a GIVE for another second balance (which can be screwed up if you get hindered right after timer or something), and take into account their ability to put in pack, give back, and drop the bomb.

    I'm not entirely sure how that could be improved upon without making it OP, though.  Removing the balance on timer (but keeping the balance on give) would help. You could then attack sooner after timing the bomb to stop put in pack/give.

    Drop bomb through hinder was specifically put there to make bombs not unstoppable. Dropped bombs are still BALANCELESS bombs, though, which is still incredibly useful (admittedly, butterfly bomb and web bomb, if buckawns, not so much).

    MilitisBambizloKaie
  • MilitisMilitis Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Removing balance on timer is a good idea too
  • BambizloBambizlo Member Posts: 74 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I can get behind removing the balance cost on timer too.
  • MakoMako Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    idk what kind of timer goes randomly another direction, malfunction? I just dunno
  • MakoMako Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    maybe make some bombs randomly be duds or something
  • BambizloBambizlo Member Posts: 74 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    Mako said:
    maybe make some bombs randomly be duds or something
    Not really needed since there's already a 3 sec delta on timing as it is.
  • MakoMako Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    yeah remove that 
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Dartega said:
    Oh, yeah. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see an improvement to timed bombs and handoff. I'm just pretty sure they're not as bad as some people were saying. Carry on!
    Except that's why people are "saying". Classleads were done differently this past round but I and other jesters refined a concept for Glue (originally proposed by Rean in the prior classlead round, but he failed to submit in time). CLASSLEAD SHOW 230.

    Bascially wish for a glue prop. (20 gold)
    Time <bomb>. (0.5s balance)
    Coat <bomb> in glue. (3s EQ) (jesters won't choose quick-witted so this is actual bal)
    Time <bomb>. (0.5s balance)
    Give <bomb> to <person> (0.1s)

    Revised to put timer first. Glue should only be applicable to timed bombs to limit the number of glued bombs? Not sure how classleads will be carried out in the future, if at all, but I know there was support for the concept.

    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • KaieKaie Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited July 2013
    I like the enthusiasm here. Bombs are not useless by anymeans and as @Terra pointed out you need to focus your attack around the bombs timer when using them like that. It involves a lot of tracking things and anticipating that you may become hindered mid attack. Though, it does require too much luck and is too easily dismissed for a skill that can play such a role in pranks. Jester from what I've seen in my time as one (never been another class) is based around hindering an opponent to the point they cannot flee your instakill. It's not a true affliction class otherwise impatience would be given and it's not a damage class.  Bombs being a serious player in hindering should have a method to secure it. Right now, nothing stops dropping except paralysis which is often cured very fast and reflexing packing/dropping bombs is ridiculous. I don't think the glue idea is good for a few reasons here. I don't think glue exists in achaea and there's no reason to start manufacturing it when you can find another way and also we don't need anymore props.. jester is already expensive. I think changing a few other things will help. Maybe changing bombs so the opponent can't put live bombs in containers or give them to anyone else. Change web to stop you from dropping things. It's a relatively quick cure to just writhe. Or change mickey to actually consume herb balance so you can trap some one in aeon/paralysis without relying on some trick to break a curing system making dropping them harder to pull off.
  • MakoMako Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    @xith im rubber your glue
  • MakoMako Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    i think we need to establish if bombs have a fuse, or a super advanced timer(stupid). Just make some duds
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kaie said:
    .... is ridiculous. I don't think the glue idea is good for a few reasons here. I don't think glue exists in achaea and there's no reason to start manufacturing it when you can find another way and also we don't need anymore props.. jester is already expensive. I think changing .......

    Mako said:
    @xith im rubber your glue
    Mako just answered that question, Kaie. If red rubber balloons exist, glue isn't a massive stretch. Use syrup or tree sap, really doesn't matter what kind of adhesive.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • KaieKaie Member Posts: 158 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited July 2013
    Not really.. I don't understand why we're still on the glue idea anyways. I feel either you don't see the reason it was likely declined during the past two classlead sessions or still hope to pull one over on everyone. Let's say for a moment this was introduced. I'm fighting some one and I have lets say.. 10 timed concussion bombs. I apply glue to the first bomb that'll end up in their inventory.. I then give the bomb and the other 9 to the victim. They can't drop that first bomb.. so they can't do "drop bomb" and get rid of the other 9 either. That would force them to stop and continuously do "IH BOMB" and grab numbers to drop. That alone would be annoying however, now lets face the fact that I wouldn't stop there, I'd probably throw in blackout, maybe force selfishness up, stick aeon and asthma. Now we've taken a funny and seemingly harmless fix to bombs and turned it into a nightmare that -will- be cried over. It'll probably cause more drama and grief than it would good.
  • MakoMako Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    it would be a neat idea to throw a timed bomb from an adjacent room with a sticky substance on it, but I can see how that can be overpowered
  • MakoMako Member Posts: 150 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    anyone thinking of halo?
  • DartegaDartega Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I'm well aware of your terrible glue idea, thank you
  • BlujixapugBlujixapug Member Posts: 1,833 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Clearly you should hide the bomb in a pie before throwing the pie at someone.
    image
    MilitisNimSimolnRoam
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    As a Blademaster, let me say that random things are bad, please stop thinking they're not.

    Also, @Kaie: could very easily script a bomb dropper that drops by ID number rather than just "bomb" to prevent the exact scenario you described. Yes, it requires scripting, but so does combat in general.

  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kaie said:
    Not really.. I don't understand why we're still on the glue idea anyways. I feel either you don't see the reason it was likely declined during the past two classlead sessions or still hope to pull one over on everyone. Let's say for a moment this was introduced. I'm fighting some one and I have lets say.. 10 timed concussion bombs. I apply glue to the first bomb that'll end up in their inventory.. I then give the bomb and the other 9 to the victim. They can't drop that first bomb.. so they can't do "drop bomb" and get rid of the other 9 either. That would force them to stop and continuously do "IH BOMB" and grab numbers to drop. That alone would be annoying however, now lets face the fact that I wouldn't stop there, I'd probably throw in blackout, maybe force selfishness up, stick aeon and asthma. Now we've taken a funny and seemingly harmless fix to bombs and turned it into a nightmare that -will- be cried over. It'll probably cause more drama and grief than it would good.
    It wasn't submitted in the first session, as my post said. And the past round wasn't approved or denied. Not a single classlead about bop getting mental afflictions but we ended up with that.
    As Nim said, people are going to drop by id number anyway. Some probably already do. But addressed those in the new bomb topic.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • DartegaDartega Member Posts: 148 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Mizik said:
    Need PUPPET SAPIENCE
    Please
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