Ambassador upgrades

Aepas

This is a suggestion to the realm of achaea and its players, not so much a mechanical idea that would go into the game.

So, I had recently thought about becoming the ambassador for my city. Sounded like a pretty cool job, you know? I do a lot of travel and work with the gov, so I've met a few different ones from time to time and it seemed like something that would be a taxing but fulfilling job in achaea. (Not in the real world.. too much politics) So, I think about applying and here is what I see.

10.4.1 THE MINISTRY OF THE AMBASSADOR

Newbies are the life blood of a city, for as the old generations die off,
strong new leaders must be found. The Ambassador and his aides are responsible
for cultivating a favourable atmosphere for newbies within the city, providing
them with help, advice, support, and perhaps even equipment.

Ah, okay, let's look at what ambassadors in real life do.

am·bas·sa·dor  

/amˈbasədər/

Noun

1. An accredited diplomat sent by a country as its official representative to a foreign country.
2. A person who acts as a representative or promoter of a specified activity.

So, we do need a general HoN for cities, but let's think about this for a little. Something that seems to be lacking in achaea as far as I am concerned is the ability for  a person or set of peoples to deal with PR issues, and speak with other cities on behalf of the city leader.

Now in general it's city leaders that do most of the talking and propaganda, but why is this kind of thing not actually addressed? Take for instance the Mhaldorian Gala that recently happened. Nobody really showed up from other cities besides ashtan and all with good reason. However if we had a true ambassador, I am sure they would have shown up out of a sense of necessity. It would have given the vision that "Oh, eleusis is here, Cyrene is here, oh, even Targs showed up." This is not something we really care for in our current state. City interaction is very limited to specific groups, like random high ranking people talking to city leaders, etc etc, and the information does not always get passed around properly. Interaction with other cities currently falls into strange subgroups of different people you feel you can talk to or get your point across to.

So, I'm hoping that I'm making enough sense so far, so here are a few of the pros of my idea
Ambassadors should also be more willing and able to:

-Attend other cities (even enemies) functions. (Balls, ceremonies, rituals, etc.)
-Discuss rules of engagement.
-Talk about various treaties such as prices on herbs, venoms, inks, and the like.
-Be able to discuss certain policies to other cities.
-manage public posts when applied to a specific city. (Posting, but the city leader or others can still write them)
-Be a public representative for your city (This can even be a lie, such as attempting to gently change sympathies through words)
-Manage political topics and properly discuss terms before wars
-Have a sense of ownership of such things that can, if violated, bring a sense of shame upon themselves or their city
-be able to ask for temporary immunity in enemy cities
-attempt to help sympathizers of their city in elections

This is a lot of stuff to do, but I know I have seen some people that would excel in a place like this. I believe it would add a much more to the game if we actually began to think of ambassadors as this kind of person. I realize that many people have actually gone this route, but keep in mind HELP AMBASSADOR only says they do a few specific things. Really, to gain the position you only have to fill a check in the box, you only have to be the city HoN.

I say, with the players agreement that we begin to turn the ambassador sect and the aides into a much more active and role play centric part of the game.

Iocun

I'm not quite sure this is needed. Most of these functions are currently filled by the city leader, and to a lesser degree by the whole leadership council. The reason that we have ambassadors IRL is that representing your country all over the world would otherwise simply be too much work for your presidents/ministers/etc., but in Achaea, with only five other cities, it should be quite manageable by the leadership council.

So to me this seems to come down to just a disagreement with how the term ambassador is used in Achaea. Yes, Achaean ambassadors don't do the stuff RL ambassadors do. But does that matter? The term simply means something different in Achaea, i.e. the person responsible for citizenship and young citizens. That particular function can be roleplayed just as well, only differently, so I'm not quite sure why we should change the purpose of this ministry around just to accommodate for the RL meaning of the term.

Mishgul

Could merge Steward and Treasurer while we are here. War could use some looking at to considering it's basically just a minister who can sanction and whose aides seem to be useless.

So many things to clean up so little time.

Melodie

I love this idea, merely because this is the kind of stuff I -love- to do. My main concern, though, is that this would fly in the face of current fraternization standards through a few of the major factions. I'm perfectly fine with that, myself, but I'm not sure if the admin would be.

Amunet

 Fraternization rules are the antithesis of roleplay when they are applied to people in leadership positions. That having been said, I agree with @Iocun that this role is already filled by city leadership and Councils, which already have far too little  to do for their size. I'd much rather have the Ambassador role renamed than repurposed.

Azor

The list of stuff in @Aepas' post should, I think, apply to multiple city leaders. Everybody should be more relaxed about "fraternization," provided that people are RPing with each other AS their characters, and not simply dropping all pretense of RP conflict because they just wanna hang out. So I basically agree with @Amunet. And I don't think the name of the office needs to be changed, either, since everybody knows what the Ambassador does.

Vayne

While Ashtan's nihilistic attitude gave them the option to sate their curiosity with legitimate roleplay, I do not think having a more literal type of ambassador would have made most if any of the city-states attend Mhaldor's event. A state would not be expected to send its dignitaries into enemy territory for social events. If anything, it would seem reasonable to pull them out. Sitting down at a neutral location and talking terms is one thing, but submitting oneself to the enemy's propaganda is another, especially at your own expense.

From where I am sitting, at least for my faction (I am sure it might be different for say Targossass and Cyrene), it is not about anti-fraternization rules that would stifle roleplay opportunities, but a concerted effort to oppose an enemy state. The other city-states were determined in their denial of the invitation to send a clear message that they do not acknowledge the enemy's agenda as legitimate. This does not necessarily mean they do not want to roleplay with your side, per se. In fact, they are roleplaying, just not perhaps in a way that give you the interaction you wanted or expected.

Silas

I'm already working on making Targossas's Ambassador more ambassadorial, but a formal change to the ministry isn't really necessary. Somebody in the city needs to be there to look after newbies, and the Ambassador is the best fit. That and, as covered, most of the duties listed (which don't even require actual city powers to carry out) can quite easily be attended to by the city leader and the ruling council.

Hataru

I'd really love to see War Ministry fleshed out @Mishgul - especially since there's now wars going on. Maybe aides of a certain city rank or higher could be allowed to sanction only if the two cities are at war?

IE - A Mhaldorian War Aide could sanction a raid if they were say CR4+ on Targossas because the two city-states are currently at war.

Because other than that I don't really see a point in the war aides... at all... except checking font amounts? Which is just... yeah not worth having aides imo. And to make it clear I say of a certain city rank or above because no body wants some dumb CR2 who happens to be an aide running in and sanctioning for no bloody reason. Sanctioning still should be very much earned and a high ranking privilege but I see no reason not to extend that to high ranking war aides during a time of war. After all, not only generals lead troops into battles or some such. (This only half-serious suggestion comes from a conversation had between a few people on a clan.)

I dunno just make it seem the like Ministry had a point beside having a singular extra elected official to sanction.

Also I like the idea of making Ambassador more Ambassadorial but I feel like it doesn't need an official change, it can just be done by player work and effort from an IC/RP standpoint.

Linian

The Minister of War in Cyrene (I know, sounds contradictory already) has really been hard at work on the city's battle readiness, which is what I've always assumed that position is for. Overseeing the soldiers, getting the troops ready for battle, preparing and planning raid defense (and raids for you crazy cities that do that sort of thing). If your Minister of War isn't doing anything...well, maybe it's time to readjust how things are done?

Silas

War Ministry is difficult to address, because we seem to be perpetually between systems right now. The old war system from HELP WAR was defunct before I even started playing, but city destruction is really not a big conflict starter and Icons are a House thing that are also something of a non-starter for conflict. I'm sure when Tecton and co. have the time, something more can be considered for it, which will make the War Ministry more relevant, but allowing aides to sanction isn't the fix that the ministry needs. Targossas has exactly two people able to sanction right now, and there's not exactly a shortage of raids by us, sanctioned or otherwise.

Given that all other cities have a full complement of council members, it seems like a better idea to leave it as it is, making a sanctioned raid require the participation of the ruling council or the appointed Minister of War to allow for some proper accountability.

Xenomorph

One of the greatest regrets I'll have is not developing a day 1 expectations talk with each Minister. It's a system that Im going to refine, however. Winging it has been our crutch for far too long. Aepas, I like your idea because its what I've been saying the whole time to these very leaders. Think outside the box, as you are, to truly help contribute and improve any one part of the city. The Minister that is simply getting by, or the same one that thinks in terms of their shortsighted minister coding limits, clearly hasn't exhausted all options. A minister is whatever you make it, with the chain of command to ensure its power used clean.

Aepas

To clarify to some people, this is a purely IC change, not mechanical. I'm suggesting that all of you take a round turn in your city and spur up more relation ties with other cities.

"This is a suggestion to the realm of achaea and its players, not so much a mechanical idea that would go into the game."

So this is up to you, this is up to your city this is for you to set down some ground rules on how you should actually be treating certain policies and regulations when dealing with other cities. As I've stated before, interactions currently get the "grapevine" treatment, where one city leader that might not be in a positional authority on a specific subject talks to another less informed city leader, and then they both get hogwash information back to the council and in return back to the leader. This does little to nothing for the city. Remember, an ambassador is a PUBLIC representation of your city and culture. You get to be the one person that has to make a good and open appearance all the time to many different people of different polices and religions. Keeping it to council/leader does not seem to have the desire effect that comes around to the public eye.

Vayne said:

While Ashtan's nihilistic attitude gave them the option to sate their curiosity with legitimate roleplay, I do not think having a more literal type of ambassador would have made most if any of the city-states attend Mhaldor's event. A state would not be expected to send its dignitaries into enemy territory for social events. If anything, it would seem reasonable to pull them out. Sitting down at a neutral location and talking terms is one thing, but submitting oneself to the enemy's propaganda is another, especially at your own expense.

From where I am sitting, at least for my faction (I am sure it might be different for say Targossass and Cyrene), it is not about anti-fraternization rules that would stifle roleplay opportunities, but a concerted effort to oppose an enemy state. The other city-states were determined in their denial of the invitation to send a clear message that they do not acknowledge the enemy's agenda as legitimate. This does not necessarily mean they do not want to roleplay with your side, per se. In fact, they are roleplaying, just not perhaps in a way that give you the interaction you wanted or expected.

Alright, well lets look into the actual job of an ambassador. As I stated, they are a representation of the culture of your city. People will be judging your city and learning your culture simply by how you act in given situations. remember that the job of an ambassador is to form relations with other cities, be them good or bad. Now let's move onto a few other things that happened and relate them to some more realistic applications.
1) don't want to pay to go to an event, it will only support the enemy.
-Think about the diplomatic talks that the US has currently had in North Korea. We spend hundreds and thousands of dollars for lodging, food, transportation, security, and all of that. Now how much of this money do you really think goes back to america? Almost none. It's his job to be there as a representative of the United states and attempting to defuse or reach a political conclusion to a specific set of events. Does the amount of money America just poured into North Korea really help them? Not really, it's a pretty small amount.
2) Subjecting yourself to enemy propoganda.
Once again, you are the representative. You do not need to participate in everything, but simply making a show causes a much greater understanding of the given culture. Let's assume mhaldor was eating babies at their ceremony. What would an ambassador do? join in? No, that would give the appearance that hashan is okay with that. Politely decline? yes, This shows an understanding of culture and respect on both sides.

I'm very happy to see that @silas is looking to make the ambassador more like one, and that's exactly the kind of play that I think could begin creating a much more hospitable experience towards many players.

Remeber, in our world and in this one there are 5 main parts of any culture or country.
Religion
Politics
Culture
Economy
War

Right now, look at the game around you and see how off balance this little scale is. Many cities have been pushing hard to bring culture back into line, Economy is stale as always, Religion is nothing more than pure zealotry for half of the orders, Politics is pretty much only inner city conflict BS, and WAR is the dominating effect on the game. War is everything

I look forward to the day when we can properly meld all of these things back into a living and breathing world. I truly believe that having an ambassador that will attempt to foster relations between cities, for good or ill, will continue to make the game grow in a very productive way. 

Vayne

I think you and Xenomorph both make good points. War no doubt rules Achaea and it needs balance with more cultural affairs. I have been working on both in my faction and it is clear a strong faction needs both to succeed. Likewise, Ambassador is not just what the help file says it is nor is it limited to its hardcode as @Xenomorph said. If you want it to have a role more closely aligned with its real world counterpart that is awesome, the players have the prerogative. It will be interesting to see how the various cities develop this role further. However, I too am of the inclination that the ruling council should be more active as the ambassadorial delegation myself, since, as stated, they usually do not do too much themselves with the ministers doing the majority of the city's grunt work. I would like to see the Ambassador given a little more power is the upcoming city-novice changes and get further programs in integrating newbs into the various cities.

@Aepas I think perhaps I am focusing too much on that one example. In that scenario, I would stand by my actions and understand those taken by others, but in other scenarios I would agree sending a representative in some capacity would be beneficial for the game.