IC D&D-in-Achaea games?

Boosteya

There were a LOT of fun comments in the now-closed thread in what is essentially the 'ideas' board, regarding the potential to play a tabletop RPG in Achaea. I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this; it MIGHT belong in the 'general' section, as opposed to the RP section. The RP section is my original location for it, because someone said they're already creating a 'Dragons and Dala'myrr' game ICly. So, if that actually pans out, it DEFINITELY goes here (I think.)

[This space reserved for gods/mods, in case I'm mistaken and it's getting moved.]

Anyway, I figure anything with which we're having fun, ought to have a thread available.

Also, in that now-closed thread, someone asked, 'How deep can you go?' about an RP game in an RP game. I have two responses to this.

The first is, as a critic said of Madonna's role as Breathless Mahoney in Dick Tracy, 'It's hard to act when you are an act.'

And on the flip side, I offer this link to a webcomic: Guilded Age.

Discuss as seriously (or humourously) as you wish; I can't speak for others, but for me, it's all about having fun.

Achimrst

I don't see why you can't make a game within a game to enjoy. Sounds fun to me!

Iocun

To me, it seems anachronistic. "Roleplaying" itself can be a fine game to play in Achaea, if you do it in a generalised fashion akin to storytelling, but I'd shy away from formalised RP games and rulebooks, which is really a 20th century thing, to me.

Keep it light and simple and do it in a way that still allows you to feel that it's your character participating in the game, not yourself. If you get personally too immersed in a game-inside-a-game, particularly if its a roleplaying game, there's an inherent danger in losing a good grasp on what you are, what your Achaean character is, and where the boundaries lie.

Hayte

Boosteya said:

There were a LOT of fun comments in the now-closed thread in what is essentially the 'ideas' board, regarding the potential to play a tabletop RPG in Achaea. I'm not sure if this is the right forum for this; it MIGHT belong in the 'general' section, as opposed to the RP section. The RP section is my original location for it, because someone said they're already creating a 'Dragons and Dala'myrr' game ICly. So, if that actually pans out, it DEFINITELY goes here (I think.)

[This space reserved for gods/mods, in case I'm mistaken and it's getting moved.]

Anyway, I figure anything with which we're having fun, ought to have a thread available.

Also, in that now-closed thread, someone asked, 'How deep can you go?' about an RP game in an RP game. I have two responses to this.

The first is, as a critic said of Madonna's role as Breathless Mahoney in Dick Tracy, 'It's hard to act when you are an act.'

And on the flip side, I offer this link to a webcomic: Guilded Age.

Discuss as seriously (or humourously) as you wish; I can't speak for others, but for me, it's all about having fun.

I think you meant THIS specific comic Boost. I only know that because I started at the beginning.

Boosteya

I mean the whole thing, but ESPECIALLY that panel!

Sylvance

I'm with @Iocun.

Yes, that is a sexual comment.

Nim

Iocun said:

To me, it seems anachronistic. "Roleplaying" itself can be a fine game to play in Achaea, if you do it in a generalised fashion akin to storytelling, but I'd shy away from formalised RP games and rulebooks, which is really a 20th century thing, to me.

I'm iffy about putting a year on it like that, since modern role-playing games (with formalized rule systems) evolved out of war simulations becoming recreational and shifting to an individual (rather than unit-based) scope, rather than any sort of technological advancement being involved.

That said, I still think it'd have a hard time fitting into Achaea. Even though Achaea does have chess and other board games, Achaeans are still more prone to simulate war by actually going to the arena and such. Plus, Achaean raid leaders often go out to raid and play the role of combatants as well as tacticians, so there's usually no real distinction between officer and soldier to even create a desire let alone need for war simulations (of the sort with dice and figurines anyway, as opposed to those held in arenas, which definitely does have a place).

All that said, I think LARPing might be a perfectly valid (eg not anachronistic) form of roleplaying in Achaea, especially given that an early form of LARPing already exists (arena games; any of them, but especially Freezetag, Bait the Frog, and Balance of Power). It would be a sort of natural evolution to say that you get to be someone else (you already do, in Balance of Power!), especially if taken from a performance or combat-training perspective, and while the latter would be a bit more work to actually implement in any useful fashion, it would also be more likely to resemble the kind of formalized roleplaying systems we have today.

I am way too geeky about all this stuff

Sasiya

Well... I'm trying not to sound too mean, but since you posted here I figured you wanted peoples' feedback, even from those who might not think this is the most amazing thing ever.

Basically, to me Achaea is a fantasy setting roleplaying game and I don't want it to be Second Life 2.0 or the next Farmville or such, because I don't really find those very enjoying. It's like... what if you were watching the Lord of the Rings movie, or the Game of Thrones series, or reading The Wheel of  Time, or just playing Dragonage, and suddenly some blatantly modern setting elements make it into whatever you're doing in the most jarring way: imagine Frodo sitting down with Sam and getting his bag of D20 dices to play a game of 'Sauroman the Reckoning' where they both pretend to be orcs in a very Dungeons and Dragons-esque manner. That scene would make all the people watching go 'what the eff is this, stop it already'.

I immerse myself in MUDs because it is a fictional get-away where I can be the hero or villain in that epic, awesome medieval setting. I do realize that Achaea strays from this in many ways already and I don't -really- care if people want to play roleplaying games inside their roleplaying game (I mean, I'm not going to write you an angry email or anything like that), but when I come across it in game it just feels like Achaea is some sort of fancy veneer for the IRC-room brigade instead of a living, breathing, and exciting world of its own. Certainly, characters can and should have ways to relax and have a good time. Just... play some cards with the local noblemen, compete with your favourite dwarven comrade in a game of 'Who can chug eighteen barrels of ale?', or even visit a brothel. Roleplaying that you're playing a dice-based game where you assume the role of an alter ego just instantly makes me draw mental parallels to real-life PRGs.

I would respectfully ask that if people want to do this, take your game to your subdivisions house or something like that. Like I said before, I am -really- trying not to sound mean or be rude or stop people from having fun or anything like that. It's just a bit like I would ask people to refrain from discussing the latest football match on the city channels (although that example is a bit more extreme) because I want to cling on to the wonderful illusion that is Achaea.

Sena

Nim said:

All that said, I think LARPing might be a perfectly valid (eg not anachronistic) form of roleplaying in Achaea, especially given that an early form of LARPing already exists (arena games; any of them, but especially Freezetag, Bait the Frog, and Balance of Power). It would be a sort of natural evolution to say that you get to be someone else (you already do, in Balance of Power!), especially if taken from a performance or combat-training perspective, and while the latter would be a bit more work to actually implement in any useful fashion, it would also be more likely to resemble the kind of formalized roleplaying systems we have today.

I could see LARP existing as a form of improv for the benefit of the players rather than an audience, but I agree with Iocun that there shouldn't be formalised rules governing things like simulated combat. I would expect it to be much more realistic (with actual fighting and real dangers) than real-life roleplaying. It just doesn't make sense to make complex rules to simulate combat in a world where there's very little stigma against fighting to the death, and there are arenas that allow you to have non-simulated fights with no lasting consequences.

Without the formalised rules, I don't see a problem with it. It wouldn't be very different from any other play/performance.

Nim

@Sena: I was thinking as a means of simulating abilities without actually demanding that the players have them, or giving those that do an edge.

Examples of games like this include Mafia (which has already been reskinned, possibly multiple times, in Achaea) and Assassin. It might also be a smaller part of a greater game, such as a political game where murdering other players is permitted, using game mechanics that prevent actual combatants from having an in-game benefit.

Also, while there's little global stigma against fighting to the death, except in Mhaldor where macabre is the general theme of things, it's not exactly the sort of thing you'd want to do to the sort of people you'd want to play these sort of games with. Arena fights might be almost universally acceptable, but they do impose some other limitations (such as having to relocate to the arena, paying arena fees, having time limits (outside the Delos arena), potentially waiting for other arena users) that might make them less desirable, even ignoring the edge trained combatants get over non-combatants.

ETA: If someone does make an Achaean roleplaying game, the best advice I can give is to make it from a purely IC perspective. Don't base it off of games that exist IRL, or experiences that you, the player, have had - base it off of what your character knows and enjoys, and base it off of things that happen in-game. Use the game to enrich Achaea's roleplaying atmosphere, rather than using Achaea as a chatroom to play the game.

Synbios

@Sothantos and @Tesha will want to hear of this. 

Shirszae

Shame the only people who seem to like this are on Team Good. I'd have a hard time justifying changing sides just because of some fancy game   

Boosteya

I'm glad for ALL the feedback. More serious tone than all the jokes in the other thread, but that's not a bad thing.

Synbios

Shirszae said:

Shame the only people who seem to like this are on Team Good. I'd have a hard time justifying changing sides just because of some fancy game   

I bought dice explicitly for that reason.

Iocun

Sena said:

I could see LARP existing as a form of improv for the benefit of the players rather than an audience, but I agree with Iocun that there shouldn't be formalised rules governing things like simulated combat. I would expect it to be much more realistic (with actual fighting and real dangers) than real-life roleplaying.

The way I can envision RP/"LARP" in Achaea is like the way kids tend to play, really, just with the potential of getting a bit more dangerous perhaps. In the sense of "let's go play knights!" and then pulling out practice swords and mock-duelling, but without actually developing intricate characters or going by any defined ruleset.

Or, if you want to omit the "live action" part, just as a form of interactive storytelling, where several people sit together and make up stories around imaginary characters, but still in a somewhat childlike lightheartedness that leaves it very clearly in the realms of a "minigame".

I think you just have to make sure that this minigame never starts to feel more serious and real than the Achaea surrounding it.

Kellonius

This reminds me of that episode of the office where Jim is talking about Dwight's second life obsession and that he is so far removed from the real world that he created his own second life game, called second second life.