Trading my Aetolian credits for your Achaean

Cesarina

Sooo little late to the party, but I'll give @Xer's left arm to have the POSE system from the other IRE game(s)? I don't know how hard that would be to implement, but hell, that's the most awesome thing ever. Want want want.

edit: clt/rt... pose/post... why am I stupid?

Iocun

That one's listed.

Zeon

Keres said:

It's not even 'reworking' or a 'massive overhaul'. I'm fairly certain the changes proposed - extending the system that is already in place - wouldn't really be that much work. It's like some variables in a parser... jus'sayin'.

This is incredibly naive.

Eld

Keres said:

It's not even 'reworking' or a 'massive overhaul'. I'm fairly certain the changes proposed - extending the system that is already in place - wouldn't really be that much work. It's like some variables in a parser... jus'sayin'.

Based on what I've seen of the Aetolia system (not much) and past comments from the admin about the viability of making seemingly small changes to the existing codebase, I'd say it could easily require an essentially ground-up rework. It all depends on how the original system was coded; without access to the code it's pretty impossible to say how much work would be required under the hood to effect a seemingly minor extension of the functionality.

Cooper

@Sarapis

I think you either misunderstood what I meant or I wasn't clear.

There are features in Aetolia that Achaea has, however they are slightly improved (the emoting/tmoting is a great example of this).

I did not mean to say that Achaea should have vampires because Aetolia has them or space combat or multiclass (okay actually please bring in multiclass) - just meant to say that the base systems the other games took from Achaea and improved would be nice to have in Achaea.

Edit: looks more like I wasn't even as close to as clear as I wanted to be in my first post.

Eld

Cooper said:

@Sarapis

I think you either misunderstood what I meant or I wasn't clear.

There are features in Aetolia that Achaea has, however they are slightly improved (the emoting/tmoting is a great example of this).

I did not mean to say that Achaea should have vampires because Aetolia has them or space combat or multiclass (okay actually please bring in multiclass) - just meant to say that the base systems the other games took from Achaea and improved would be nice to have in Achaea.

Edit: looks more like I wasn't even as close to as clear as I wanted to be in my first post.

I think you were fairly clear in your first post and @Sarapis was fairly clear in his response. The developers on each game choose what they spend their effort developing, and what we see as players of a particular game is a reflection of what our devs have focussed on. Improvements to the emote/tmote system have been suggested in many Dais threads, including several references to Aetolia's system as an example, and they're surely on the admin's list of possible things to work on, but time working on that is time not spent working on other things, and they have to prioritise. Describing things like Aetolia's emote system as "base systems the other games took from Achaea and improved" implies that they started from the same base and added onto it, rather than just writing their own from scratch to get the features they wanted, which is far from a foregone conclusion.

Also, assuming that your inclusion of "space combat" was referring to @Sarapis's mention of EVE, as I read it he was not talking about "space combat" as in "combat that takes place in space", but rather "3D-space combat" as in combat in whatever setting that takes place in three dimensions.

Sasiya

Each time someone posted in this thread I got way excited because I thought that someone wanted my delicious Aetoliacredits.

Alas, how wrong I was.

Sarapis

Cooper said:

@Sarapis

I think you either misunderstood what I meant or I wasn't clear.

There are features in Aetolia that Achaea has, however they are slightly improved (the emoting/tmoting is a great example of this).

I did not mean to say that Achaea should have vampires because Aetolia has them or space combat or multiclass (okay actually please bring in multiclass) - just meant to say that the base systems the other games took from Achaea and improved would be nice to have in Achaea.

Edit: looks more like I wasn't even as close to as clear as I wanted to be in my first post.

There's no real difference. Vampires are "just" another class or "just" another race. Extending emotes is "just" another way to emote. Adding 3d space combat is "just" another way to move around the world. You're talking about game systems. Developing a game system isn't necessarily any less time-consuming just because Aetolia has it. The emote system Achaea has today is written completely differently from the one that Aetolia inherited (and then completely changed). 

I'll repeat: It generally makes no difference that Aetolia/Lusternia/Imperian/MKO have implemented a feature (there are exceptions, but largely not to do with any kind of game/content systems). You may as well pick features from any MUD or MMO and ask for them, or request features that you haven't seen in games before.

Sarapis

Eld said:

Also, assuming that your inclusion of "space combat" was referring to @Sarapis's mention of EVE, as I read it he was not talking about "space combat" as in "combat that takes place in space", but rather "3D-space combat" as in combat in whatever setting that takes place in three dimensions.

Doesn't matter really, though I meant combat that takes place in three dimensions. Makes no real difference though - in both cases they are game systems that we could implement. In the case of combat in three dimensions, there's a very good chance that the feature never makes it to the top of the priority list. In the case of a new emote system, there's a better chance it will, but it's not a near-term priority.

Eld

Sarapis said:

Eld said:

Also, assuming that your inclusion of "space combat" was referring to @Sarapis's mention of EVE, as I read it he was not talking about "space combat" as in "combat that takes place in space", but rather "3D-space combat" as in combat in whatever setting that takes place in three dimensions.

Doesn't matter really, though I meant combat that takes place in three dimensions. Makes no real difference though - in both cases they are game systems that we could implement. In the case of combat in three dimensions, there's a very good chance that the feature never makes it to the top of the priority list. In the case of a new emote system, there's a better chance it will, but it's not a near-term priority.

Yeah, it just sounded like @Cooper was making a distinction between game elements (races, classes, etc) that may or may not be implemented based on whether they fit the setting, and "base systems" (emotes, clothing, etc) that are useful for any such game regardless of the setting, and that he was putting that in the former category rather than the latter. It really is irrelevant, though, as your point as I understand it is that any of those things require substantial manpower to implement, and the assumption that similar functionality in the base systems makes them easier to extend to meet what the other games have is unwarranted.

Sarapis

@Eld Yeah, that's correct. Even in most cases where there is still some similarities in the code that isn't explicitly IRE-wide, the differences and exceptions are so broad as to essentially require a recode. 

Keres

Two 'wtf' and a 'disagree'. How about we break this down

"you can use the emote system when dressing/undressing: 'remove shirt [slips out of $item and throws it aside.]' would remove the shirt and everyone in the room would see 'Sylvance slips out of a green silken shirt and throws it aside.')"

So the command to remove shirts is already in place. The parser for that command already exists. The system to display a message to everyone present and the actor is already in place. Player-entered variables already exist in the parser. (See, TMOTE - tmote describes the existing system and how it works with $variables) So.... the only thing that needs to be done to extend Achaea's existing systems with the described functionality is to rewrite a tiny portion of the WEAR and REMOVE commands, and add the code for the worn/unworn messages to check if the player has given a custom line, and if so, feed that to the room, (which would all probably be done after the regular WEAR/REMOVE evaluations [does the player have this item, can it be worn, etc]) else return the items default message.

take a look at any MUD codebases command handler, parser, and wear/remove commands before hitting the 'what the foozle?' and 'well I don't agree with that' buttons please

edit: I understand the implementation details of Achaea's emote system are going to be fundamentally different than the details of Aetolia's implementation. The code does not need to be identical - the functionality does.

You do not need to rewrite Achaea's emote system from the ground up to perfectly resemble Aetolia's code. Taking from what is already in place (in Achaea), this shouldn't be an extensive modification. unless Achaea did something ridiculously wonky and unconventional for the purpose of making things more difficult than they need to be, this probably is valid

Keres

Zeon said:

Keres said:

It's not even 'reworking' or a 'massive overhaul'. I'm fairly certain the changes proposed - extending the system that is already in place - wouldn't really be that much work. It's like some variables in a parser... jus'sayin'.

This is incredibly naive.

ironically it's the opposite, see above

if your claim is based in research, study, and experience in developing emote systems in MUDs - or more abstractly, command parsers and output buffers, then maybe you're right and i'm naive

if it's based on what you've heard/been told and nothing else, i'm pretty sure you're being naive. in my experience, where engineering is concerned, people either over-estimate or under-estimate the difficulty of designing and implementing a working solution, and rarely hit the mark

if you released relevant portions of the code on something like Mudbytes and described the problem in the format of an open challenge, I bet this emote system would be written in a day

Keres

Eld said:

 it could easily require an essentially ground-up rework

in the software development industry, that's called job security

in engineering, that's called a mistake

the DOD spends tons of money researching and developing fancy (expensive) electronic gadgets that do all sorts of things like jam enemy radio/cell phone signals and stuff

give me a car battery, a gameboy, a butter knife and a beat up microwave and I can do the same thing, while playing pokemon

Mannimar

Why does this matter? Just give @Sasiya her credits before she loses all faith in Achaea...

Sasiya

Mannimar said:

Why does this matter? Just give @Sasiya her credits before she loses all faith in Achaea...

You all heard the man!

Hurry, before I start bidding on the level 4 crit bracers in Aetolia's third auction for this month!

Tecton

Some enhancements for the emote system are on the cards for the near future, but classleads and newbie-related changes are on the forefront at this point in time!

Hataru

please let that include coloured says in emotes

please

pretty please

candy I'll give candy

or shinies

Vadimuses

Just to clarify: coloured with the default color, not pink-red-yellow-custom color?

Hataru

@Vadimuses I'd assume set to your config'd colour for says (so I guess a yes for what you're asking?) but for the purpose of rituals/sermons/general RP I'd just love to not have to emote say emote say emote emote say emote and just be able to have it all flow as one.

It just flows so much better when you're able to have the says stand out within the emotes themselves and not blend in and have to interrupt an action to say something or awkwardly be forced to always speak before and after actions, never during.

Example Edit:

Hataru steps forward, glancing about the crowd as she shakes her head, "BLAHWHATEVABLAH." A smirk crossing over her otherwise still features as she finishes speaking she turns her back to the gathering.

(not the normal says colour cause its illegible on the forums background)

Keres

Haters said, "You're wrong! That would be way more work than you think!"

Two weeks later...

ANNOUNCE #3890

lol

Eld

Keres said:

Haters said, "You're wrong! That would be way more work than you think!"

Two weeks later...

ANNOUNCE #3890

lol

Yeah, if you think they did this in two weeks...lol, indeed.

Keres

No. I think they did it in something like 14 years.

As for the actual coding? Yes, I bet it was much less than 336 hours of programming to implement these changes.

It might have taken much longer to plan and decide to make these changes.. but what were we talking about to begin with?

(that's rhetorical)

Eld

Keres said:

No. I think they did it in something like 14 years.

As for the actual coding? Yes, I bet it was much less than 336 hours of programming to implement these changes.

It might have taken much longer to plan and decide to make these changes.. but what were we talking about to begin with?

(that's rhetorical)

Yes, it probably took less than 336 man-hours of actual coding work. That's not the same as two weeks real time.

Akali

Just be glad for the new emote system, mmmkay?!

Sasiya

O my god stop posting nonsense in this thread. I keep thinking people want to trade me Achaean credits and then I am so disappointed.

Every single time.

/sadface