Goodbye

Sanna

Most of you don't know me, but I'm a noob in Ashtan, who joined about two weeks ago. This is my first Mud, and I really enjoyed it. It's complex, it's interesting, and it has a lot of nice people. But, I'm not willing to put in the time and money to become a part of the game. I played  a lot my first two weeks, and I'm level 65. But I realize to actually become  a part of politics and combat, I'll either need to spend the months needed to tri trans(bare necessity) or spend hundreds of dollars. After having seven hours worth of gold stolen from me, I realized I'm not willing to put in that time or money. I really dislike grinding, and this game has  a bit too much for me. Thanks for my making my stay enjoyable(special thanks to Kuheh, Zoldine, Medivh, and Andraste)! Bye!

Jhaeli

Maybe it's different in Ashtan these days, but you don't need credits or to be tri-trans to get into politics in most places. Getting involved in the bureaucracy and the community is usually enough.

I like Ashtan, but from the sounds of it, you may want to consider Cyrene where there's less emphasis on combat and more in personal abilities. (Excluding the Wardens.) It's a great city to get started in and it can be easier to move up sometimes. There are also numerous ways to get credits cheaply in-game like House and city credits which should help you build your combat abilities. (This is all cities, usually.)

Just a couple suggestions! Either way, take care!

Dunn

Well, time is kind of a necessary thing for most games.

Nyboe

She has a good point about having to spend to get the bare necessity. It is indeed very hard to tri trans without paying a single dime. Yes the new update with the credit adjustment to the levels was nice but its not enough to get anyone close to tri-trans even after reaching level 100.

I been hunting and questing for gold the past 6 Achaean years for like 3+ hours a day on average and I am still no where close to being tri trans.

Shirszae

Daeir said:

I guess this is that lack of mid-level retention after theft thing Tecton mentioned when he was talking about the pickpocket changes.

Perhaps, but if you are not willing to put in time, you are not going to go anywhere, theft or not.

Madrax

Your lvl 65 and you joined just two weeks ago but you don't like grinding? somethings not right..... heh wish I could be lvl 56 just in two weeks

Cahin

nevermind, that's not what this thread is about.

Hope you come back if you find you have more time to be able to enjoy the game.

Nyboe

Cahin said:

Nyboe said:

She has a good point about having to spend to get the bare necessity. It is indeed very hard to tri trans without paying a single dime. Yes the new update with the credit adjustment to the levels was nice but its not enough to get anyone close to tri-trans even after reaching level 100.

I been hunting and questing for gold the past 6 Achaean years for like 3+ hours a day on average and I am still no where close to being tri trans.

Why do you think you should be entitled to easily obtain a full gameplay experience without paying a dime?  I'm not saying it shouldn't be possible if people are willing to put in the work (and generate things that give incentives to others to purchase credits such as gold), but I'm curious as to why you think this game should throw business model to the wind?

Because many games out there give full gameplay experience without paying a dime.

Also just making tri-trans obtainable without paying a dime isn't even full gameplay experience. The player would also have other skills such as survival and vision or even the mini skills they would have to trans, And if you are so concerned about this business model that is what artefacts are for.

Santar

I don't want to get into too in depth of a conversation about Achaea's business model, but I was able to trans out the majority of my skills(not just class skills, all skills), buy a couple artifacts, join Mark, and fight competitively without buying any credits with real-life money, and this was pretty early in my character's life.

And this was years and years ago when there were less promotions, less lesson gain/credit gain per level. Not to mention that there's the whole Iron Elite thing now which is reasonably priced and gives you a fair flow of credits coming in.

Aepas

@sanna has been misled as to what is required in this game. All you need is a good drive and the ability to keep your head on a swivel. on the flip side, if theft is the thing that kills the game for you, then you might not want to be around for all the other soul crushing events that will happen in your achaean life.

Kresslack

Santar makes a pretty good point. Also, there's not really a game that comes to mind that's free to play but doesn't offer option(s) to pay money and get the benefit of doing so. Either way, you get a Lot of bound credits as a result of leveling. Your attitude about it seems to be that you expect to be able to immediately be a candidate for a leader, or an experienced fighter, but don't want to invest the time and effort it takes to actually be considered a real candidate for such. 

Your progression in Achaea is approximate to the amount of personal effort and interest you put into it. This coming from someone who invested in Seafaring at a Very early stage, and used it to quickly secure positions of Seafaring related offices, as well as other opportunities. You get what you put in.

Echald

Kresslack said:

 Also, there's not really a game that comes to mind that's free to play but offers option(s) to pay money and get the benefit of doing so.

 

Now, I am not sure about that one. The Free to Play formula has been the one that has had the most growth in term of MMO,  and some other games, in the recent years. Certainly popular in term of facebook and mobile games, but you can find a few bigger ones using that model even on steam.

Sarapis

Nyboe said:

Cahin said:

Nyboe said:

She has a good point about having to spend to get the bare necessity. It is indeed very hard to tri trans without paying a single dime. Yes the new update with the credit adjustment to the levels was nice but its not enough to get anyone close to tri-trans even after reaching level 100.

I been hunting and questing for gold the past 6 Achaean years for like 3+ hours a day on average and I am still no where close to being tri trans.

Why do you think you should be entitled to easily obtain a full gameplay experience without paying a dime?  I'm not saying it shouldn't be possible if people are willing to put in the work (and generate things that give incentives to others to purchase credits such as gold), but I'm curious as to why you think this game should throw business model to the wind?

Because many games out there give full gameplay experience without paying a dime.

Also just making tri-trans obtainable without paying a dime isn't even full gameplay experience. The player would also have other skills such as survival and vision or even the mini skills they would have to trans, And if you are so concerned about this business model that is what artefacts are for.

With the credit market, absolutely everything in Achaea is obtainable without paying a dime, unless something has been implemented that I'm not aware of (possible). It may be a long grind but such is life. You have to spend time but you can accelerate your progress by spending money to shortcut that time. Not to mention all the other ways to get credits, like art/bard, guiding, city credits, etc.

So, it's not about whether you can do everything for free (you can) but the balance between time and money, which is a legitimate discussion. 

However, to your point about it being easier to get a full game experience for free in other games - I don't really care what other games are doing in the sense that I don't feel pressure to imitate them. If I did, we'd have turned Achaea into a WoW-style game long ago....and probably have been driven out of business.

For Achaea's entire life, we have competed for players against free games that sell nothing (almost all other MUDs). Heck, I had to invent an entirely new business model (selling virtual things in games) to just get Achaea off the ground, and I got a LOT of shit for it back before almost the entire worldwide games industry followed in Achaea's footsteps. I don't mind doing things differently, and it works for us. There are very very few games companies that have remained successful (even at our relatively small scale) and independent for as long as we have (Achaea launched almost 16 years ago and I started the company about two years before that).

We may end up increasing how much you can get for free, but what won't change is that those who are able and willing to support us financially get to shortcut some of the time investment required to do/achieve everything in the game. 

Kresslack

Echald said:

Kresslack said:

 Also, there's not really a game that comes to mind that's free to play but offers option(s) to pay money and get the benefit of doing so.

 

Now, I am not sure about that one. The Free to Play formula has been the one that has had the most growth in term of MMO,  and some other games, in the recent years. Certainly popular in term of facebook and mobile games, but you can find a few bigger ones using that model even on steam.

I meant to say that's Free to Play but Doesn't offer those things. Thanks for quoting me so I could fix it lol

Sanna

I want to clear something up. I'm not saying the grind is a bad thing, it's just not for me. I'm not willing to spend months to be semi-proficient. I just don't have the time or will to do so. It's an awesome game that appeals to a niche, that I am not a part of.

Keres

Go well, Sanna.

If you ever return, I have a tip- take it easy. Play casually. Make friends. Have fun.

At this point, I have no political ambition whatsoever, and it will likely be a long time before I trans all my skills.

That said,  I have a ton of stuff to do. The game world is vibrant and beautiful, and I enjoy discovering it. There are many players within my own city whose characters I have yet to meet; there is tons of role-play yet to be had! Not counting all the players NOT from my city!!

I don't think two weeks is enough time to accomplish all (barely any) of that, and yet, no grind is necessary. No credits required. If you got burnt out on grinding - don't just grind!

Nizaris

@Sanna: good luck. I think I speak for most everyone when I say that we hope you do decide to come back.

@Sarapis: off topic, but I'm curious. I realize that you were among the first to think up the virtual goods for RL money business model. And of course, Zynga et al. have developed similar business models. But what makes me curious is if you have received any reports about other businesses who were inspired by your business model in particular, or if they reached the same conclusion independently. Don't get me wrong -- being the first to think of something is pretty awesome. But it's even cooler if some big names in the industry took their cues from you guys.

Alissan

Credits and being tri-trans really don't have much to do with politics. If you don't want to grind, there are many ways to enjoy the game without grinding. That said, glad you had fun, and hope you come back at some point.

Sena

I played the game for years without a single trans skill and without reaching level 60, and had plenty of fun. There are definitely options that don't involve any grinding/money at all, or very little. Then if you can find things you enjoy that don't require high level/skills, you can slowly build up gold/credits while doing those things, so you can eventually trans your skills without really grinding for it.

Sherazad

It's different for people. I didn't know about forums, scripting and stuff when I was a true newb and I was that for a very long time. I was having fun watching Beya do his games and fun rp in Achaea, talked to people and it was enough. I didn't expect to be very involved in the game and somehow that happened and I got all sorts of nifty things without having to spend anything OOCly. 

Nim

The problem is that Achaea can very easily be as grindy as you want it to be, and if you push it to be grindy, it can be very grindy, so it's easy to forget it doesn't necessarily have to be. Technically, I guess that's a feature rather than a problem, but it's a problem when you don't recognize that it's not a mandatory feature.

That said, if you wanna get into combat with less than tri-trans, some classes are better equipped for this than others (maybe someday, classes will be balanced around a single-trans minimum, but doesn't seem to be the case just yet!).

I can't speak about other classes very much, but Blademasters are exceptional at this. You just need Brokenstar, and a few hundred lessons of Striking (for feet strikes against mounted people, knee strikes otherwise), and everything after that is just a bonus - don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Granted, bonuses can make a difference where personal skill and tactics fail to, but personal skill and tactics do go a long way.

I hear it's about the same for monks and knights, although the latter tend to involve a bit more grinding for good gear.

Chryenth

Magi only need duel-trans. Enchantment is a nice accessory, at most, for combat. I don't know how viable trans Elementalism and no crystalism would be in the hands of someone competent (I'm not combat-competent). 

Side note: 'bi-trans' is a rather odd phrase.

Xenomorph

Sanna, 

I do not know you, and you owe me nothing, but I promise if you took the time to hear me out and show some short term faith, I'd show you loyalty and more importantly, long term payoff. While you do not have the answers you seek from where you are at, everyone deserves a shot at the truth and truly level dynamics that put the player first. I'm extremely confident in not mine, but the faction I'm apart of's ability to give you something you've been denied right out of the gate. The truth.

What you see is what you get. Sartan safeguards people in His faction. Human emotion and self indulgent greed are diseases you can leave behind for good. We serve the same god we always have, while in comparison your city betrayed not only Sartan, but the same exact god the fickle pagans got bored with a few weeks later. If your people aren't loyal to their god, they are irrevocably tainted for life. Wear Armani suits in Mhaldor, or stay in Ashtan and steal your clothes from Fashion Bug. The choice is yours.

I'm not in the business of proving people wrong, thats just a by-product of pissing excellence. It's what we do. Keyword: we. Not I. Join the team. 

Madrax

@Sanna

I for one have no way of spending money on credits so that is why im trying to trans one of my class skills so I can go hunting which you will be able to gain a lot of gold and with that you are able to buy credits which you can buy artefacts.

please don't leave

Korben

IRE was the first game company with a pay-for-perks model, back before the term existed. And it priced its virtual goods according to the market of the time. But nowadays almost every game is pay-for-perks, and most are fairly inexpensive, which puts IRE in a bind.

IRE can't simply replicate servers to accommodate its players. If new customers pour in, they are all on a single server and the game becomes laggy. So the model of 'a little cash from a lot of people' that works for other games doesn't work here. As a result, play value (measured as the amount of game content you get per dollar spent) is terribly expensive compared to other games. And that's going to turn off many potential customers who cut their teeth on those other, inexpensive games.

I don't think 'how much you get for free' is a problem. It certainly is not as big a problem as 'how much you get for what you spend'.

To clarify, I'm not saying credits should cost less. I know why they cost as much as they do. But those expensive credits contribute to the new-player-retention problem.

Tarkanian

Nyboe said:

I been hunting and questing for gold the past 6 Achaean years for like 3+ hours a day on average and I am still no where close to being tri trans.

you're probably doing it wrong, then. i've been playing Tarkanian since 2009, and I've tri-trans'd thru 5 class changes. never did I buy OOC credits.

Kyrra

Tarkanian said:

Nyboe said:

I been hunting and questing for gold the past 6 Achaean years for like 3+ hours a day on average and I am still no where close to being tri trans.

you're probably doing it wrong, then. i've been playing Tarkanian since 2009, and I've tri-trans'd thru 5 class changes. never did I buy OOC credits.

Aren't you that guy that I bought a plot of land off for two million gold?

Tarkanian

Indeed! My artie pack fits nicely, thank you very much!

Linian

Nyboe said:

I been hunting and questing for gold the past 6 Achaean years for like 3+ hours a day on average and I am still no where close to being tri trans.

Rounding off the Achaean timetable to about 13 days a year (it's a little less), that's 78 days, around 2 and a half months. You expected to be tri-trans in two and a half months when Achaea is a game to be played for years on years? That seems a bit much.

I've been playing for a month and I'm effectively bi-trans (I've enough lessons split about evenly between my other two class skills to be trans in one of 'em). So.

There's really no point in rushing it anyway. Stop and smell the RP, or you wind up turning the game into a massive grind, which is what I have a tendency to fall into until someone grabs me and drags me off to hang around/do something.

Chryenth

Linian said:

 I'm effectively bi-trans 

Am I the only one who finds that phrase strange? Probably. Because I'm a horrid person IRL and all that.


Anyway, I've transed I think five skills? Brought OOC credits once or twice, mostly as a show of support to IRE. Probably the majority of credits were earned in game or through Bardics.

Korben

I've recently been bashing at what I consider a non-grindy rate. Supposing I upped that to grindy, bashing as Dragon (no offplane areas), it would still take much more than 6 years for tritrans.