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Removal of STAT STATS Deaths

TiracTirac Member Posts: 286 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
The existence of the kill-to-death ratio is a not conducive to a healthy community in most games. This isn't a 1v1 game and the amount someone dies is not really a measure of how useful they are to their team in PK (not everyone is a monk/occultist/archer). The existence of KDR discourages taking risks and makes some people unhappy when they die. The death stat is an artificial penalty for taking a risk and doesn't need to exist, especially when experience loss already punishes death.

I think most people don't suffer from the urge to pad their STAT STATS but removing the death stat can only help. Also from essence logs and wherever else it exists.
ShirszaeNaisarAchilles[Deleted User]Aepas
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Comments

  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,847 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I would support this if you could see other people's stats stats, but you can't.

    If you don't want to see your deaths you can easily write a trigger to gag them.
    Sylvance
  • AlrenaAlrena Member Posts: 647 @ - Epic Achaean
    I personally don't really care about my STAT STATs, other than to see just how many denizens I killed. And it's nice to see just how many times I died sometimes. I don't really compare it to my Adventurer kills, though. (Especially after the massive breakdown where a certain someone padded my kills stat so much that it forever messed up my kills stat, making it utterly meaningless now.)
  • TeshaTesha Member Posts: 3,006 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I keep track of how I am doing lately with stat stats; it is not the information being there that is the problem, it is how it is used that can potentially be an issue. I cannot say the existence of KDR has discouraged taking risks for me at all, the reason I dislike dying is losing experience and essence, the stats are irrelevant to me. Your assumption that the KDR is the reason people do not like risks is very, very flawed - people do not like to lose period, I would not say it is about the stats afterwards. Do you guys tease each other about it or something? I have never encountered this in Targossas.

     i'm a rebel

  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,695 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    It's only a bad thing if you, yourself, assign importance to a kill/death ratio. Personally, I do not mind having more deaths than kills and I see it as a mark of having taken risks and not ganking people. Everybody who is aware of how combat works in Achaea knows that the KDR isn't all that meaningful to judge combat ability, just like might  or level.
    KresslackSylvancePlatonus
  • NaisarNaisar Member Posts: 255 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Hahaha poor Tirac.  This is actually an excellent discussion, but people are coming at it from the wrong direction.  I agree with Tirac's characterization of the issue.

    Gagging is not a viable solution, and I'll elaborate if people ask, but I'm feeling lazy right now.

    For funsies, try and make the opposite argument, the one for including it in the first place.
    Sherazad
  • PenwizePenwize Member Posts: 1,591 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I can actually understand a lot of the reason behind this, because a lot of people really do treat it like a stat to be maxed for bragging rights.  It was pretty bad when that scoreboard site was up, too.  I'm not sure it's a mentality you can defeat in a game though, unfortunately.  People would just script it locally, another scoreboard site will come up, or something similar.  It's a shame, but all we can really do is discourage that mentality culturally.  Might also consider examining the cost of deaths to players, since it causes a disproportional loss of time to die once in a fight, which is really not cool.  Some loss is alright, and the admin have made awesome strides in that regard, but there are some level ranges (like another of the dias threads points out, 80-90 is particularly bad) that cost huge amounts of time per death in relation.

    I'm kind of confused about Tirac of all people bringing it up though.  @Tirac, you're probably the single most defensive fighter I have ever come across, to the point that I've walked away from 1v1s against you because they took too long and became seriously uninteresting and boring for me (sorry, but it's true).  Is this part of the reason?  I'm genuinely curious here.
    SilasSylvanceMishgulHalos
  • NaisarNaisar Member Posts: 255 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Dunno about Tirac, but I'm ridiculously defensive because by becoming unkillable you open the doors to winning a huge amount of fights.
  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,695 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The main downside of it is just that it encourages your opponent to go super defensive as well!
    Sylvance
  • DunnDunn Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 6,324 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2013
    It upsets you that much?

    My world suddenly makes sense.
    JhuiSylvanceTrevize
  • SantarSantar Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 2,482 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited May 2013
    Like Cooper said, I'd support it if you could see other's stat stats. If you don't want anyone to know how many times you've died, don't tell them. 

    Achaea can't possibly make enough changes to the game to soothe every player's obsessive idiosyncrasies. So, just learn to cope, man. If you don't want to care about deaths, don't care about them. 
    SylvanceAveri
  • CahinCahin Member Posts: 1,213 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    This would totally change the way Vaehl plays the game.
    XerMishgul
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Santar said:
    Like Cooper said, I'd support it if you could see other's stat stats. If you don't want anyone to know how many times you've died, don't tell them. 

    Achaea can't possibly make enough changes to the game to soothe every player's obsessive idiosyncrasies. So, just learn to cope, man. If you don't want to care about deaths, don't care about them. 
    The point isn't about wanting to see your own deaths or not, or about other people being able to see your deaths. The argument is that having it available to people who care about things like KDR ratios (who clearly DO want to see it) is bad for the atmosphere of the game.
    Camande
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Eld said:
    The point isn't about wanting to see your own deaths or not, or about other people being able to see your deaths. The argument is that having it available to people who care about things like KDR ratios (who clearly DO want to see it) is bad for the atmosphere of the game.
    Tracking things like that was already available (and fairly common) even before STAT STATS. The game tracking it automatically hasn't made much difference, that I've seen.
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sena said:
    Eld said:
    The point isn't about wanting to see your own deaths or not, or about other people being able to see your deaths. The argument is that having it available to people who care about things like KDR ratios (who clearly DO want to see it) is bad for the atmosphere of the game.
    Tracking things like that was already available (and fairly common) even before STAT STATS. The game tracking it automatically hasn't made much difference, that I've seen.
    For clarity, I'm not endorsing the OP, just pointing out that Santar and Cooper were missing the point.
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,271 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Who cares
    Sylvance
  • SantarSantar Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 2,482 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cahin said:
    This would totally change the way Vaehl plays the game.


    I was told from a very reliable source that he requires two kills for every one death.
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,847 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Eld said:
    Sena said:
    Eld said:
    The point isn't about wanting to see your own deaths or not, or about other people being able to see your deaths. The argument is that having it available to people who care about things like KDR ratios (who clearly DO want to see it) is bad for the atmosphere of the game.
    Tracking things like that was already available (and fairly common) even before STAT STATS. The game tracking it automatically hasn't made much difference, that I've seen.
    For clarity, I'm not endorsing the OP, just pointing out that Santar and Cooper were missing the point.
    That point was not missed, it was just irrelevant.

    The people who cared about kills/deaths before stats stats was implemented tracked that via triggers. The addition of stats stats changed nothing of substance.
  • CahinCahin Member Posts: 1,213 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Santar said:
    Cahin said:
    This would totally change the way Vaehl plays the game.


    I was told from a very reliable source that he requires two kills for every one death.
    Damn, it used to be 3. He must be losing it or slacking off.
  • DaslinDaslin The place with the oxygenMember Posts: 2,492 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    What's that? I can't hear you over my negative KDR. 
    Your Deaths
    -----------
    To Adventurers:       143

    Adventurer Kills
    ----------------
    Number Slain:          64 

    I run support class and I'm damn proud. Deal with it.

    Sylvance
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    A negative kdr wouldn't even necessarily be bad. Positive kills and negative deaths would be pretty sweet.
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I wtf'd this because nobody cares about stat stats anyway. :)
    But the point of them is ironically to show your uh.. stats. So, what was the problem?
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    MizikSylvance
  • AchillesAchilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,634 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Admin just add a config deathstats function, problem solved for those who don't want to be reminded.

    After a thousand deaths you get numb to most deaths, praying/embracing is boring though.  


    Shecks
  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    ASSISTS PLZ. 

    EVERYONE WILL BE GREATFUL
  • RispokRispok Member Posts: 722 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Jhui said:

    ASSISTS PLZ. 


    EVERYONE WILL BE GREATFUL

    By what consise and specific terms would you suggest the assist category be defined? Seconds, percent of damage, afflictions, etc.
    Sylvance
  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    timing and aggressive actions towards a target, likely.
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    How would you differentiate between aggressive actions used to help someone or to hurt them?
    Sylvance
  • SylvanceSylvance Member Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    Achilles said:
    Admin just add a config deathstats function, problem solved for those who don't want to be reminded.

    After a thousand deaths you get numb to most deaths, praying/embracing is boring though.  


    Before the Admin spend any time on this, can we just get a rough idea of how many people are losing sleep over the STAT STATs?
    Tvistor: If that was a troll, it was masterful.
    I take my hat off to you.
    XithTrevize
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