Ambassador logs on the website

Eld

Could we get amblogs on the website to go along with the available org logs?

Sylvance

Stupid question: do you have to log into an appropriate character to check org logs?

Also, and I'm not downrating this idea, but what would you want to use this function for?

Eld

Sylvance said:

Stupid question: do you have to log into an appropriate character to check org logs?

Also, and I'm not downrating this idea, but what would you want to use this function for?

Yes, you can only see news and logs for orgs that the character you're logged in to. It occurred to me because I read a news post on the website that made me wonder if the person writing it was quitting the org. Nothing vital that I couldn't wait until I'm logged in to check, but it seemed like a reasonable thing to have given what's already there.

Sylvance

Eld said:

Sylvance said:

Stupid question: do you have to log into an appropriate character to check org logs?

Also, and I'm not downrating this idea, but what would you want to use this function for?

Yes, you can only see news and logs for orgs that the character you're logged in to. It occurred to me because I read a news post on the website that made me wonder if the person writing it was quitting the org. Nothing vital that I couldn't wait until I'm logged in to check, but it seemed like a reasonable thing to have given what's already there.

In that case +1.

Wysteria

For those of us who Inbox RP, this would be a brilliant idea. I already do most of my work via messages from reading logs and news right now, just by using the Firefox extension (thus not needing to do a full login), so being able to read amblogs would be great.

Silas

I dislike this trend where IC information is being made available OOC. If you need to know something from the logs, you'll find it out when you login. Achaea isn't a job where it's vital that information is readily available at all times. If you think it is, chances are you need to take a step back.

Nellaundra

I like to keep up with the amblogs because it's Nell's job as an Ambassador aide.  Sometimes I don't have time to log in, but I still wanna check it out.  Now then, instead of going through the hassle of logging in, pausing my defup, and checking the amblogs (and likely getting a few tells in the process that I have to reply to) I could just check the site.  Every other log is available besides that one, so there's no real reason why it can't beyond elitists like Silas going "NOOOOOOOOO" at the top of their lungs.

And as an aside, for the toolbar and such being OOC?  I have had entirely IC negotiations and conversations solely through the messaging system on the toolbar without ever logging in because I couldn't for whatever reason.  It's only as OOC as you make it.

Jonathin

I can see the reasoning behind it, but I think keeping as much IC info IC as possible would be better. It is a game that should be played for recreation. If you feel that it's too much work to actually log into the game, it's pretty much as @Silas said: take a step back. 

You shouldn't be doing your ambassadorial work outside of the game. You shouldn't be doing any IC work outside of the game. It's a role-playing game, and the more you do things outside of the game, the more the IC/OOC line is blurred.

Sylvance

"The game should stay in the game" is not a good argument. "IC should stay IC" is equally a poor argument."

Sylvance is a bard. Sylvance's IC job is to write fanfic bardic stuff. Are people seriously contending that I should have to be logged in to do that?

All this aside... can we please all just calm down a little bit and stop the flaming? This is madness.

Nellaundra

No clients
No systems
Combat only

Final Destination.

Jonathin

Sylvance said:

"The game should stay in the game" is not a good argument. "IC should stay IC" is equally a poor argument."

Sylvance is a bard. Sylvance's IC job is to write fanfic bardic stuff. Are people seriously contending that I should have to be logged in to do that?

All this aside... can we please all just calm down a little bit and stop the flaming? This is madness.

If you think those are poor arguments, I would hate so see what you feel is a good argument.

Silas

To be fair, calling it retarded was harsh, so I'll retract that. I still absolutely disagree that "IC = IC" and "IG = IG" are not good arguments against this, though. I dislike some of what I've seen of the combat guide on the wiki for the same reasons, and I very much hope this is a trend we'll move away from rather than further into.

Santar

What they should do is make everything in the game accessible on the website. And even let you log onto your characters. Then let you like walk around, bash, hunt, and fight all from the website. I'm not sure that's possible, though.

Kyrra

I read city and clan logs while I'm at work, if the forums are slow. For example, I can see Targossas raided and destroyed 5 rooms. This allows me to prioritise that I'm probably going to do a security sweep and empower the city, and maybe have to repair rooms instead of logging in to hunt when I get home.

It's kind of a consolation for missing out on all the peak time things that happen too. I also happen to work on a lot of stuff for Achaea without being logged in. Because afking is bad.

Layna

I do quite a few IC things, while logged out of Achaea.

I wrote a new Policy for the Chancellery while logged out. Why? Because I get far too busy IC to concentrate on trying to formulate new things for the City, and logging out allows me to focus and get things right. If you can accomplish all your IC tasks while logged in, dealing with ten different things, while fifteen different people demand your attention constantly, then more power to you, but allowing us mere mortals to be able to keep an eye on things while not being logged in, would be nice too.

Sylvance

Silas said:

To be fair, calling it retarded was harsh, so I'll retract that. I still absolutely disagree that "IC = IC" and "IG = IG" are not good arguments against this, though. I dislike some of what I've seen of the combat guide on the wiki for the same reasons, and I very much hope this is a trend we'll move away from rather than further into.

They aren't good arguments because the next step of these arguments, and, in fact what the two of you are arguing, is that IC=IG. At best these are risibly naive stances to be taking. At worst they're downright stupid.

Sylvance

Jonathin said:

Sylvance said:

"The game should stay in the game" is not a good argument. "IC should stay IC" is equally a poor argument."

Sylvance is a bard. Sylvance's IC job is to write fanfic bardic stuff. Are people seriously contending that I should have to be logged in to do that?

All this aside... can we please all just calm down a little bit and stop the flaming? This is madness.

If you think those are poor arguments, I would hate so see what you feel is a good argument.

Good arguments would be closer to what you said earlier, @Jonathin. If you stop snarking just a little while longer you may continue to make good points. For instance "This would be bad because many people have professed that they suffer from 'Achaea-creep' (in terms of its effect on RL, not... the other type), and this idea would increase the net of that" would be a good argument. Or "Giving some Ministries out-of-game access to their logs would create an unfair advantage, and the Ambassador is one of those Ministries" would be a good argument.

Instead, what I'm seeing as an amorphous argument which is "The game should stay in the game". Honestly, I'm not even sure what you mean by that.

Shirszae

Gods, stop the petty arguing! There is really no good reason for this to be denied. We can already read IC News out of the game, and a couple of logs. One more is not going to cause a continental shift. 

Jonathin

Sylvance said:

Jonathin said:

Sylvance said:

"The game should stay in the game" is not a good argument. "IC should stay IC" is equally a poor argument."

Sylvance is a bard. Sylvance's IC job is to write fanfic bardic stuff. Are people seriously contending that I should have to be logged in to do that?

All this aside... can we please all just calm down a little bit and stop the flaming? This is madness.

If you think those are poor arguments, I would hate so see what you feel is a good argument.

Good arguments would be closer to what you said earlier, @Jonathin. If you stop snarking just a little while longer you may continue to make good points. For instance "This would be bad because many people have professed that they suffer from 'Achaea-creep' (in terms of its effect on RL, not... the other type), and this idea would increase the net of that" would be a good argument. Or "Giving some Ministries out-of-game access to their logs would create an unfair advantage, and the Ambassador is one of those Ministries" would be a good argument.

Instead, what I'm seeing as an amorphous argument which is "The game should stay in the game". Honestly, I'm not even sure what you mean by that.

Thanks for making my argument for me!

Sylvance

Jonathin said:

Sylvance said:

Jonathin said:

Sylvance said:

"The game should stay in the game" is not a good argument. "IC should stay IC" is equally a poor argument."

Sylvance is a bard. Sylvance's IC job is to write fanfic bardic stuff. Are people seriously contending that I should have to be logged in to do that?

All this aside... can we please all just calm down a little bit and stop the flaming? This is madness.

If you think those are poor arguments, I would hate so see what you feel is a good argument.

Good arguments would be closer to what you said earlier, @Jonathin. If you stop snarking just a little while longer you may continue to make good points. For instance "This would be bad because many people have professed that they suffer from 'Achaea-creep' (in terms of its effect on RL, not... the other type), and this idea would increase the net of that" would be a good argument. Or "Giving some Ministries out-of-game access to their logs would create an unfair advantage, and the Ambassador is one of those Ministries" would be a good argument.

Instead, what I'm seeing as an amorphous argument which is "The game should stay in the game". Honestly, I'm not even sure what you mean by that.

Thanks for making my argument for me!

Any time. Wanna get some breakfast?

Iocun

@Shirszae: Correct, it isn't, but precedence alone isn't sufficient justification. I, for one, dislike the fact that we can read news and logs without being logged in, so I don't see why I need to like the fact that this should be further extended.

P.S. I actually really don't care whether this is implemented or not, because yes, it really makes no relevant difference. So feel free and do it. Just saying why I'm not actively endorsing it.

Shirszae

Iocun said:

@Shirszae: Correct, it isn't, but precedence alone isn't sufficient justification. I, for one, dislike the fact that we can read news and logs without being logged in, so I don't see why I need to like the fact that this should be further extended.

P.S. I actually really don't care whether this is implemented or not, because yes, it really makes no relevant difference. So feel free and do it. Just saying why I'm not actively endorsing it.

I am just of the opinion that some of the arguments presented here are a bit late. Also, it is very convenient to be able to read such things outside the game. You yourself dislike it? All well and good, just don't do it.

Iocun

The arguments aren't late, as they were already made when those other things were being put on the website. "If you don't like it, don't do it" is also not a satisfying response - if you do not like the effect that certain features may have on the game as a whole, it doesn't matter if you make use of them yourself or not, as long as others still do.

But as I said, I don't really care in this particular instance.

Sylvance

Look, unless somebody can give a specific and likely negative outcome for putting Amblogs on the website, can I humbly suggest that we put the bunny back in the box?

Wysteria

I've written whole scrolls and a few books during breaks at work because, for me, it's fun and I don't have to log in. All my House essays and tasks were completed while not logged in because I play Achaea in a way I can spend what precious little hours (read: four/wk) I do have to just bash or conduct tests with the novices as needed. How far can I step back from my four hours? I might as well quit the game then.

Seriously, being able to read amblogs will not kill your RP.

Blujixapug

Sylvance said:

Look, unless somebody can give a specific and likely negative outcome for putting Amblogs on the website, can I humbly suggest that we put the bunny back in the box?

Wysteria said:

I've written whole scrolls and a few books during breaks at work because, for me, it's fun and I don't have to log in. All my House essays and tasks were completed while not logged in because I play Achaea in a way I can spend what precious little hours (read: four/wk) I do have to just bash or conduct tests with the novices as needed. How far can I step back from my four hours? I might as well quit the game then.

Seriously, being able to read amblogs will not kill your RP.

It won't "kill RP", but it's a step towards poisonously bad habits.

People have previously made habits of conducting House and city meetings via IM programs. Houses have stored information on web forums and forced members to sign up with accounts in order to advance. This is not sane behaviour. It had to be stamped out. But when you blur the line - when you stop forcing people to cross that threshold, log in, and become their character - you make crazy behaviour like that easier to justify.

With each step taken in integrating more information into the achaea.com website, the next step becomes easier. One step may not change anything. Several steps will.

Nellaundra

That's really only a problem for a few certain people.  If you yourself are afraid of blurring the IC/OOC barrier by making a few more things available while you're not offline, then don't use it.  For others, who -don't- have this issue, it'd just be a touch of convenience when we want to log in but can't and wanna keep up with a few things anyway.

And for record, I have no issues separating Nell from myself.  Hell, I've been called weird for referring to her as a separate entity from me before.  I run -several- characters across multiple games and RPs, and yes, I have a lot of OOC chat on each.  I still keep up the barrier because I am not an awful roleplayer who would let the IC/OOC barrier die because of my own incompetence.

Mishgul

Tenebrus response 6 i believe

Sylvance

<I'm calling it a day here.>

Mishgul

Probably won't go through, so sick of a-holes logging onto browsers via their alts to read current events in a city.

Wysteria

I agree with @Nellaundra. I don't have the IC/OOC problems like some people do. That, and I only have Wyst. The very concept of having an inbox is ooc to me really when you think of the logistical side of it - people don't bother sending me letters when they can do the same with MSG WYSTERIA [blah]. Amblogs won't do much harm in that regards.

If you're in that situation where you have dedicated forums just for your House and City, then hell yes you seriously need to set yourself straight because that's taking it too far on any scale.