Apostate Combat Pre-Trans

Kuruvar

I have an apostate character I've been pondering playing some more, but I'm not really sure whether they work as a class without significant credit investment. Unless I'm wrong, they need Necromancy to hunt, but their combat is mostly bound up in Evileye and Apostasy, right? Meanwhile Evileye really needs to be transed to be worthwhile in combat.

So is there an established way of apostates being worthwhile in combat without being tri-trans, or can anyone think of one? Otherwise I might want to switch to a more alt-friendly class.

Iocun

Trans evileye is really a definite necessity for 1v1 combat. You can get away with non-trans apostasy and necromancy though. Technically, you only need hunt in apostasy, which comes right at the start, you'll just be missing lots of assistance, defence, and alternate tactics. Same goes for necromancy: strictly speaking, you can get away without any necromancy at all, but you'll be severely lacking in tankiness, group combat ability, bashing ability, general utility.

There definitely are classes that are more low-skilllevel-friendly. It's hard for me though to say how vial it is with only trans evileye and mediocre necromancy/apostasy levels, since I've never played one.

Agravain

You can if you adjust your playstyle to that of a more catharsis-style offense. It's definitely possible without trans evileye, but evileye just makes it a lot simpler and versatile. You can also thrive well enough off just necromancy + apostasy. I would aim for vivisect and catharsis before you go for evileye, if you cannot tri-trans for awhile. 

Kuruvar

Iocun said:

Same goes for necromancy: strictly speaking, you can get away without any necromancy at all, but you'll be severely lacking in tankiness, group combat ability, bashing ability, general utility.

Yeah that really isn't an option, is it? Realistically as an alt hunting for levels is my main way of getting lessons so ignoring the hunting skill is just not viable. I suppose you're right about hunt being an ok minimum for apostasy, though.

Agravain said:

You can if you adjust your playstyle to that of a more catharsis-style offense. It's definitely possible without trans evileye, but evileye just makes it a lot simpler and versatile. You can also thrive well enough off just necromancy + apostasy. I would aim for vivisect and catharsis before you go for evileye, if you cannot tri-trans for awhile. 

That's kind of what I was thinking, but how would one actually get a vivisect off without any evileye? Hunting with epseth and epteth + shrivel isn't really going to do the job, is it? Same goes for catharsis - just trying to drain mana with no afflicting doesn't sound like a great strategy.

Sena

Kuruvar said:

Iocun said:

Same goes for necromancy: strictly speaking, you can get away without any necromancy at all, but you'll be severely lacking in tankiness, group combat ability, bashing ability, general utility.

Yeah that really isn't an option, is it? Realistically as an alt hunting for levels is my main way of getting lessons so ignoring the hunting skill is just not viable. I suppose you're right about hunt being an ok minimum for apostasy, though.

Assuming bleed in evileye is the same as curses (I've never actually tested it), you'll have a perfectly viable bashing attack without necromancy, you'll mostly just lose out on defence. It won't be crippling, you'll just have to go for easier targets.

Dartega

Pretty sure bleed is terrible for bashing as apostate

Agravain

Kuruvar said:

Iocun said:

Same goes for necromancy: strictly speaking, you can get away without any necromancy at all, but you'll be severely lacking in tankiness, group combat ability, bashing ability, general utility.

Yeah that really isn't an option, is it? Realistically as an alt hunting for levels is my main way of getting lessons so ignoring the hunting skill is just not viable. I suppose you're right about hunt being an ok minimum for apostasy, though.

Agravain said:

You can if you adjust your playstyle to that of a more catharsis-style offense. It's definitely possible without trans evileye, but evileye just makes it a lot simpler and versatile. You can also thrive well enough off just necromancy + apostasy. I would aim for vivisect and catharsis before you go for evileye, if you cannot tri-trans for awhile. 

That's kind of what I was thinking, but how would one actually get a vivisect off without any evileye? Hunting with epseth and epteth + shrivel isn't really going to do the job, is it? Same goes for catharsis - just trying to drain mana with no afflicting doesn't sound like a great strategy.

You'll have Fiend, Hunt focus afflictions, sap and a decent defence. I'm not saying it's going to be a largely viable strategy, but you will see some success with it, I know that. It's also good for your group combat (Catharsis + Vivisect), and there will be plenty of opportunities for Vivisect in those situations, when you can use your teammates skills in substitute for your own lack thereof. 

From there, you can build yourself up towards transing evileye. With House and City credits, you should be able to achieve it in a few in-game years, and then you'll have 3/5 of your total offence, and well on your way to total offensive efficiency But really, Apostasy + Necromancy is going to be your best choice and you would do fine with the absence of Evileye, just not great, but that's expected.

Mishgul

Some of the toughest opponents ive faced were completely immune to evileye, but i killed them with necro and apostasy, both of which have far more utility and zoidberg than evileye.

Apostate is a mana drain class, locking is near impossible vs. A good system or a smart person, but draining someone of mana is so easy.

That said you could probably lock everyone that isnt Sohl. Darn that cretin.

Evileye is better if you get arties arguable. Without robes of magi you lose mana very very fast and if you arent level 6000 you lose wp fast from evileye.

Dont bash with evileye, run out of wp in 6mins and the damage is pitiful

Sabiru

disagree. Trans evileye or get bored

Kuruvar

Mishgul said:

Some of the toughest opponents ive faced were completely immune to evileye, but i killed them with necro and apostasy, both of which have far more utility and zoidberg than evileye.

If Jurixe didn't exist you'd be my favourite house leader, I swear.

Mishgul

Sabiru said:

disagree. Trans evileye or get bored

You would die in like 3 newbkicks if you  went evileye. And finishing the lock would be hard without fabled weaponry to boot, unless you get v. lucky with hunt or nightmare.

Sabiru

yeah, but you wouldn't be bored!

Isaiah

The title of this thread should be 'a really funny joke'