Mundane jobs

Sena

I would love to see a large variety of normal, mundane jobs for players to do in Achaea, as a way of making a bit of gold, and just for RP. Fishing is a good example of the sort of thing I'm thinking of; simple tasks with fairly small payouts (maybe something on the level of ratting, though it would vary based on complexity, difficulty, and repeatability). I imagine some of them would be like quests (talk to a denizen to start the job, perform a specific set of tasks (something like fishing where you enter certain commands at certain times/messages), and get a reward) that could be done repeatedly, and others would be more like creating items to sell to denizens.

Some ideas for jobs: Forging (not forging weapons/armour to sell to players (though it could still use the forging skill), but forging stock items to sell to denizens. Bulk weapons/armour that don't rely on stats, common metal items like nails and tools, etc.), various types of cooking (again, not producing food for players to eat, but selling to or working for a denizen), weaving, glass-blowing, cleaning, carpentry, tailoring, jewellery, pottery, etc.

Santar

I don't like it. Why do you want to add more useless tedium to the game? We already have fishing. I don't see how the game will be benefited by adding a hoard of new mechanics that all achieve the same end(bored player doing boring job for small payout).  

I wouldn't mind new additions that weren't just remakes of the tired old mechanics of ratting/fishing/etc. I'd like to see something with actual interesting mechanics and a reward that's not just an addition of gold.

Rispok

Don't yell at me for being totally wrong (I haven't played since the year it came out), but this kind of feels like a similar idea to the influence system in Lusternia, which I think added good dimension to the game.

I'd like to see more stuff like this as well.

Blujixapug

I feel like I'd rather kill dragons and sabotage Cyrene's postal system and other exciting, adventurous stuff than perform tasks that are deliberately boring.

Maybe they could be interesting if well-executed. Something like, say, harvesting beeswax to make candles, or travelling through a city collecting garbage, could be fun or charming if well-written... But in general, I always felt like the "normal" people in this game, the tanners and accountants and glaziers, were the NPCs.

Silas

I always enjoyed the menial jobs in games like Fable because it helped to develop a sense of character, so selling generic food/wares to denizen shopkeepers would be a cool addition. I'd also like to see something in the same vein added to ship trades whereby you can sell different cargo to different ports for a nominal fee.

Sena

Santar said:

I don't like it. Why do you want to add more useless tedium to the game? We already have fishing. I don't see how the game will be benefited by adding a hoard of new mechanics that all achieve the same end(bored player doing boring job for small payout).  

Just like there are people who actually enjoy fishing, there are people who would actually enjoy mindless and repetitive baking, sewing, cleaning, farriering, etc., and having more choices increases the likelihood that a person will enjoy at least one of them. They also don't actually have to be boring things that people will just automate, though that's probably going to be hard to avoid.

They would basically just be alternatives to fishing, for players who don't want to be fishermen and would rather play different professions.

Delphinus

Rather than a push-button-receive-bacon sort of thing, what I'd really like to see are minigames. We've seen them in things like the Theran game shop, so the possibility is there; why not put that ingenuity toward a less obvious use? Like hacking minigames in more traditional titles. This is actually how I'd prefer fishing and forging to be, as well.

Sylvance

@Santar - in line with @Silas post, I had a similar bee in my bonnet about Skyrim. Then somebody explained to me that it wasn't an adventure game, but a 'fantasy sim'. Whether or not you agree with that (actually, I don't), I cannot help but feel that the true hook of Achaea is much the same as the tagline of Elder Scrolls 'Live another life' or some such.  In short, I think the potential for some players in a job system is pretty damned huge, and could be great for RP.  I've frequently asked people ICly 'What's your job?' and without saying "<Class>", which actually doesn't answer the question one wit, it can be surprisingly difficult to answer. And 'adventurer' is a total copout, and actually incorrect in most cases.

In short, I'd totally love to see a job system that:

1. allowed you to get better at your job with practise (and HECK, maybe even could become a lesson sink for the hundreds of us sitting on a growing trove of lessons),
   
2. allowed you to make a steady gold income
3. jacked into Achaea's economy rather than actually being a Fable-esque minigame.

Sena

I'd love if the jobs were more tied into the player-run economy rather than just generating gold from denizens, and if they were fun mini-games on their own, but I'm not sure how either could be done, so I went with just "reskinned fishing".

Tahquil

FIGURINE FIGHTING THING FROM LUSTERNIA.

Mishgul

Textris

Sylvance

Tahquil said:

FIGURINE FIGHTING THING FROM LUSTERNIA.

Disagree, though the button's a bit too strong. I love Lusty, but I love Achaea too. Something distinctly Achaean would be better!!!  How about Chess, but with some kind of system for 'levelling up' the pieces?

Tell you what else might be cool - to create a mechanical side of the doctrinal wars that I imagine going on between Priests. Make a skill whereby a Priest can go and preach to denizens, and when you flip enough of them their village converts. Of course, they would then tithe the Priest, and maybe slip his Order a li'l sum'n sum'n.

Skye

I would love for this to become an option that is open even to new players.

Xli

Sylvance said:

Disagree, though the button's a bit too strong. I love Lusty, but I love Achaea too. Something distinctly Achaean would be better!!!  How about Chess, but with some kind of system for 'levelling up' the pieces?

They already have that in Chess, when a pawn makes it all the way to the other side of the board!

As for mundane jobs, isn't bashing in the higher levels mundane enough?

Tahquil

Sylvance said:

Tahquil said:

FIGURINE FIGHTING THING FROM LUSTERNIA.

Disagree, though the button's a bit too strong. I love Lusty, but I love Achaea too. Something distinctly Achaean would be better!!!  How about Chess, but with some kind of system for 'levelling up' the pieces?

Tell you what else might be cool - to create a mechanical side of the doctrinal wars that I imagine going on between Priests. Make a skill whereby a Priest can go and preach to denizens, and when you flip enough of them their village converts. Of course, they would then tithe the Priest, and maybe slip his Order a li'l sum'n sum'n.

Isn't that like the influence wars cities have over certain towns and villages in Lusternia that gives certain benefits to the specific successful cities?

But like, with Orders instead of cities? (I assume you mean priests of differing orders or else it's just going to be a fight between everyone in Targossas fighting each other for Deuce or Aurora to come out on top and that's the kind of separation they are trying to fight against.)

Cesarina

Nothing special to contribute to the topic, but I would really love this idea.

Sylvance

Tahquil said:

Sylvance said:

Tahquil said:

FIGURINE FIGHTING THING FROM LUSTERNIA.

Disagree, though the button's a bit too strong. I love Lusty, but I love Achaea too. Something distinctly Achaean would be better!!!  How about Chess, but with some kind of system for 'levelling up' the pieces?

Tell you what else might be cool - to create a mechanical side of the doctrinal wars that I imagine going on between Priests. Make a skill whereby a Priest can go and preach to denizens, and when you flip enough of them their village converts. Of course, they would then tithe the Priest, and maybe slip his Order a li'l sum'n sum'n.

Isn't that like the influence wars cities have over certain towns and villages in Lusternia that gives certain benefits to the specific successful cities?

But like, with Orders instead of cities? (I assume you mean priests of differing orders or else it's just going to be a fight between everyone in Targossas fighting each other for Deuce or Aurora to come out on top and that's the kind of separation they are trying to fight against.)

Yep, Priests of differing Orders for sure. And I wouldn't want to see this become an actual axis of conflict, more just jockeying for bragging rights (and gold).  And... now that you mention it... my idea does sound a little Lusty!

Melodie

This smells suspiciously like Mabinogi to me. But I kind of like that (for once). The idea that your character spends their offtime doing whatever for whatever reason just gives a way for further character development, not to mention something easy to show novices.

It would be extra neat if it went towards actual stocking of (some) denizen shops, though a low-ish level per job. Using Cyrene as an example, you could gather things to fill Amadeo's cafe or help Melodia, you could make arrows (or gather feathers?) for the fletcher, gather thread for Dahlia, make nails/horseshoes for Bruggio. There's so much -life- you could pump into this if done right.

Would love to have it. I want to make candlesticks! And brew tea.

Wysteria

I love doing my odd job as a messenger for that mhun in the desert when I need some quick gold. That, and also helping get silver for Taurelasse. The mundane jobs are already there and quite frequent, just have to find them.

Melodie

It would be nice to see the evidence of your mundane job in a very small way, though, thus the stocking of shops. Plus it's a way to encourage getting involved with your own city, or perhaps a city you wish to join.

Though the current stuff out there is nice, it would just be pleasant to expand things.

Chryenth

*ask [Denizen] wares*

*Find that [Denizen] is out of vials*

"Fear not, [Denizen]! I shall assist you!"

*quest to gather cederwood, for argument's sake*

*ask [Denizen] wares*

*Find [Denizen] has ten vials in stock.*

Yes please.

Sylvance

I'm actually getting quite excited about this idea

Santar

Sena said:

I'd love if the jobs were more tied into the player-run economy rather than just generating gold from denizens, and if they were fun mini-games on their own, but I'm not sure how either could be done, so I went with just "reskinned fishing".

I don't think you guys realize but you're basically asking for something that's already in the game that you're taking for granted. I don't understand the complaints about how characters have no "profession" or the implication that this would somehow broaden RP. There are already plenty of more specialized "mundane jobs" in Achaea.

Here's a quick list of "mundane jobs" in Achaea(of which, all are tied into the player-run economy @Sena)

Forger, Enchanter, Harvester, Ink-miller, Fisherman, Runelorist, Milker || Bookie, Tailor, Cook, Jeweller, Herald.

There's 12 professions off the top of my head that would classify as a "mundane job".  The latter section of the list above is things I designated as "requiring creative input".

A lot of skills like this are even more recent(cooking, inkmilling, gathering), specifically to satiate people that do want more tedium in their playtime. I'm confused why everyone is pushing so hard for re-skinned fishing when the administration has repeatedly been giving you new features and "jobs" in Achaea that are a lot more detailed and interesting. The jobs I listed above are the ones that broaden roleplay in Achaea, because they require actually interacting with other players and dealing with the player run economy. If you want a boring PvE job to make a little gold, be a fisherman. If you don't want that, take up one of the aforementioned jobs.

New features would always be nice, but I would hope it's something actually interesting as opposed to just another boring gold making mechanic. Fishing has been in the game for a long time, and it's been balanced and perfected over the years. It's there for people that want something like this, but I don't want to see the game be overrun with tasks like this.

Amunet

 If you guys want to do menial jobs, we're hiring waitstaff in Fire and Spice.

Seriously, though, this has some potential. I'll write something more comprehensive when I get to an actual computer.

Sena

@Santar I'm not ignoring existing tradeskills, I'd just like a wider variety of choices. Gathering/inkmilling was a great addition, and exactly the sort of thing I'd like more of (I have been thinking of ways that some jobs could be more like that, creating items that are actually used somehow, and transferring gold between players (or even being a gold sink) instead of generating gold), but there are also a lot of professions I'd like to see where it doesn't make sense to generate items for players, or just isn't practical as an actual source of income that way. And as I said, some people do enjoy things like fishing, so I don't see anything wrong with having options that work similarly.

Also, some of the existing tradeskills are difficult to make into a decent source of income, which is why I suggested additions even where the profession already exists as an option. Cooking, for example, requires a huge initial investment to create something that the vast majority of the game will never bother with, because they're level 80 and don't need it, or because they can buy cheap and filling food from denizens.

Skye

The unfortunate part about existing trade skills is that they require a not inconsiderable investment with risky to few returns. Take crafting licenses for example. You have to pay for the license and then you need the lessons to trans the skill, and then you have to pay for the design once it has been approved. You'd have to sell a lot of X item just to make back your investment. Further to this, most players can't afford a shop and are reduced to peddling their things on market, and even then you get a lot of stories about how hard it is for shop owners to break even.

That's why I think it would be nice for some kind of general vocation system for everyone, not just credit purchasers to get involved in. It would be pretty interesting if commshops didn't restock (or restocked at a much slower rate) without player involvement. Just think of how many Mhaldorians we'll see walking around with axes like real lumberjacks.

Silvarien

http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

The above article describes the rather creepy social engineering behind the typical MMORPG. The tasks in a typical MMORPG get you into a pattern where you're running like a hamster in a wheel, doing calculated tasks for calculated reward. They're games built on the mundane. This invariably results in addiction which typically ends with you wishing you weren't playing the game, but due to the mechanism you will continue playing.

I think most would agree the reason a lot of people play Achaea is because a lot of stuff is not like that. It does have some of those elements, but also other things. Writing and performing a ritual is not like running like a hamster in a wheel. Bardics aren't, designing jewelry sketches aren't, PvP in particular requires a lot of training and attention, and even returning pros have to sharpen their skills. Roleplaying is the ultimate non-mundane. These elements stimulate the mind, they do not numb it. We DO have mundane elements, but I would argue they aren't all-encompassing or all-important. Bashing to Dragon is not what old school Maple Story grinding was -- you simply do not need 1.5 years of 18 hour a day grinding to achieve top level.

By jacking up the amount and importance of mundane content, we would move Achaea from a vibrant and exciting experience to increasingly having those hamster-on-wheel elements. For example, Skye says it would be cool to see Mhaldorians with real axes on their backs to go cutting trees. That's at first; once you've seen it for twenty rl weeks, you start to see the task and its reward. The realism attached, the axes on the back, becomes irrelevant due to being too familiar. I am not saying Achaea can exist without mundane elements. @Santar pointed that out effectively. I am just saying there shouldn't be too many of them.

Chryenth

Achaea is already more addictive than most Class-C drugs. Adding mundane tasks like those suggested isn't going to make it too much worse, I don't think. And really there'll always be one set of players that only sees task/reward, even the first time, and then there will be those who read the flavor text every single time.

I don't think these tasks, these almost mini-quests, need to be important. How often do you go to a denizen and find they're out of vials? I don't think I've *ever* seen that, actually. Maybe you'd only need one Mhaldorian per RL day to fully restock the comms shop, and make it a different Mhaldorian every day. So any one person would only have to do this ten-minute quest maybe once per fortnight or so. Once per season if you're in Ashtan.

Silvarien

@Chryenth: I agree Achaea is addictive, but I think it's addictive due to quality rather than because Tecton and Sarapis held a closed-room meeting filled with cigar smoke where they discussed how to turn us into lab mice.

Having said that, can you excuse me for a few, I am getting the shakes bad cause my character hasn't smoked cactus weed since last afternoon.

I am not saying a greater variety of tasks is bad. I am just worried the hallmark stuff of the game could be overshadowed by them to an unhealthy extent.

Chryenth

Certainly the way I see them, these mini-quest tasks won't be important, or arduous. They'll just be something to do for a helpful effect, like restocking a shop's supply of an item or something.

The idea of other professions is something separate at this point, I feel. Unless you only have a few people who can do the mini-quests, depending on their chosen profession.

Wysteria

Chryenth said:

*ask [Denizen] wares*

*Find that [Denizen] is out of vials*

"Fear not, [Denizen]! I shall assist you!"

*quest to gather cederwood, for argument's sake*

*ask [Denizen] wares*

*Find [Denizen] has ten vials in stock.*

Yes please.

Taurelasse. Silver. Ask her wares, suddenly all her stuff is in stock