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Liquids/Remedies/Toxicology/Etc.

RonweRonwe Posts: 27Member, Administrator, Moderator Immortal
edited November 19 in North of Thera
Hello everyone - I'm the one responsible for the large rewrite that went in today.

This is a thread for feedback and discussion of the changes (bugs should be reported in-game please). I know there will be some adjustment for some of the changed commands, and this probably breaks a few systems, but I hope it's more straightforward and easier to remember going forward, and systems should also be a lot less necessary for remedies and toxicology now.

As a way to help remember some of the command changes, the idea is that POUR is your go-to verb for, well, pouring things. FILL is only used in situations where POUR doesn't make sense - you can't very well tip a tun and pour it into a vial, and "pouring your rift" into a vial sounds strange.
TalamondTorinnHyperlithCailinTeshaXiasOzmatiahNicola
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Comments

  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,244Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Other than getting rid of INPOT why do you think this is better than what we had before?
  • SiduriSiduri Posts: 1,438Member @ - Epic Achaean
    How does that interface with the Loki's Tear artefact, precisely?

    image
  • SenaSena Posts: 3,850Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I like it. It's not a huge upgrade (from the player side of things at least), but it's a nice set of QoL changes. More consistency in commands/terminology used, no more hassle in differentiating between normal and artefact vials, with a huge upgrade in artefact vial effective capacity as an extra bonus.
    MelodieUtianima
  • RonweRonwe Posts: 27Member, Administrator, Moderator Immortal
    edited November 19
    Siduri said:
    How does that interface with the Loki's Tear artefact, precisely?
    You produce 150% more applications of venoms per batch via toxicology. This stacks multiplicatively with the bonus from Economy.
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,274Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    So one brew/compound makes 20 sips?

    How much does having Economy make? 40 sips?
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
  • RonweRonwe Posts: 27Member, Administrator, Moderator Immortal
    Krypton said:
    So one brew/compound makes 20 sips?

    How much does having Economy make? 40 sips?
    It should make 40. Economy should make 50. I just put in a fix for a bug that was affecting the Economy multiplier in some cases, so you may have seen 40 even at trans Remedies/Toxicology up until about a minute ago.
  • KyrraKyrra Sanctum of the SkyPosts: 4,385Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    This is such an exciting change. I did have a question though.

    Will there ever be more than one souce of snake skin like there is for venom sacs?

    I’ve been contemplating dropping the plant side of remedies and going back to using minerals because there always seems to be a shortage of snake skin. It’s very prominent when filling tuns, with how much quantity you use, and it’s baffling why only sidewinders are harvestable when most other types of snakes were made harvestable for snakes.

    I did idea for the mumba on Meropis to be harvestable for skins a while back as they don’t appear to have venom sacs. Is this something that might be looked at in future to allow for better access to concoction ingredients?
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,274Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ronwe said:
    Krypton said:
    So one brew/compound makes 20 sips?

    How much does having Economy make? 40 sips?
    It should make 40. Economy should make 50. I just put in a fix for a bug that was affecting the Economy multiplier in some cases, so you may have seen 40 even at trans Remedies/Toxicology up until about a minute ago.
    Thank you. The line "Since all vials now hold 200 sips, it will always take ten batches of a concoction to fill a vial." (mentioned twice in the post) is a mistake, then?

    Should say "five batches to fill a vial (four if Economy)".
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
  • RonweRonwe Posts: 27Member, Administrator, Moderator Immortal
    @Kyrra Like the announce said, I'm considering some future adjustments and enhancements to remedies/toxicology (and also possibly to other tradeskills). I'll put the snake skin issue in my notes. It's also possible that we'll take a look at this specific idea when we're going through the IDEAs list, but no promises.

    Before anyone gets their hopes up though, those future adjustments and enhancements are very tentative right now, and very future.
    Kyrra
  • RonweRonwe Posts: 27Member, Administrator, Moderator Immortal
    Krypton said:
    Ronwe said:
    Krypton said:
    So one brew/compound makes 20 sips?

    How much does having Economy make? 40 sips?
    It should make 40. Economy should make 50. I just put in a fix for a bug that was affecting the Economy multiplier in some cases, so you may have seen 40 even at trans Remedies/Toxicology up until about a minute ago.
    Thank you. The line "Since all vials now hold 200 sips, it will always take ten batches of a concoction to fill a vial." (mentioned twice in the post) is a mistake, then?

    Should say "five batches to fill a vial (four if Economy)".
    Yes, yes it is.

    (This sort of thing is exactly why it's nice to just be able to POUR instead of having to figure out how many TIMES to FILL!)
    Krypton
  • DatriusDatrius Posts: 522Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    So I'm guessing the AB files will be getting updated to get rid of inpot and whatnot?
  • RonweRonwe Posts: 27Member, Administrator, Moderator Immortal
    Datrius said:
    So I'm guessing the AB files will be getting updated to get rid of inpot and whatnot?
    Already done! Remedies and Toxicology ab files should all be in place.

    Help files will take a bit longer - most should be done today, a few will get done tomorrow, and there will probably be a few stragglers (references to these systems are littered all over different sections of the help files).
  • RonweRonwe Posts: 27Member, Administrator, Moderator Immortal
    edited November 19
    Bonus secret for forum-goers: I have also aliased REFILL and SUPERFILL to the new FILL, and DECANT to the new POUR to help ease the transition if you prefer those.

    This isn't mentioned in any syntax or help file, and it's theoretically possible that we might want to use those verbs for something else at some point in the future, so I'm not promising forever, but they're there if you miss them.
    XiasPrythe
  • LennLenn Posts: 36Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Will this make it more viable to have customised drinks now or in the future? The customisation team cited how the liquid system behind the scenes worked as one major reason not to do that for individual players...
  • RonweRonwe Posts: 27Member, Administrator, Moderator Immortal
    edited November 19
    Lenn said:
    Will this make it more viable to have customised drinks now or in the future? The customisation team cited how the liquid system behind the scenes worked as one major reason not to do that for individual players...
    I'm not entirely familiar with the context of what the customisation team has said on this, but given how drinks work, unfortunately no, probably not. Or perhaps it would be more accurate to say yes, it makes them more viable in the future, but still not actually viable. Sorry.
  • TorinnTorinn Posts: 595Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited November 19

    * BREW will pull the necessary ingredients from your inventory and rift. We appreciate the immersive aspects of INPOT, but it becomes an easily-automated nuisance after the first few times. 

    Can we get this for inkmilling too?  (I know it's probably not related, but one can hope!)
    Deucalion says, "Torinn is quite nice."
    Cailin
  • RonweRonwe Posts: 27Member, Administrator, Moderator Immortal
    Torinn said:

    * BREW will pull the necessary ingredients from your inventory and rift. We appreciate the immersive aspects of INPOT, but it becomes an easily-automated nuisance after the first few times. 

    Can we get this for inkmilling too?  (I know it's probably not related, but one can hope!)
    Added to my list to look into.
    Torinn
  • TeshaTesha Posts: 2,804Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    How do you un-tradein like 9 wheel arti vials

     i'm a rebel

    XiasDochithaRangorTysandr
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StatePosts: 2,711Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Since you'll be looking into snake skins can you consider making eagle feathers a bit faster? The venom sacs and skins are reasonably fast to harvest but with the amount of feathers you can get in one harvest it takes quite a while to harvest them even with gloves of harvesting.
    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • DraedethaDraedetha Posts: 38Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited November 19
    If I'm understanding this correctly, 4 batches now gives you ~400 sips, rather than 480 it previously had? :/

    Edit: I'm asking in regards to the new artefact vial changes, specifically.
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,274Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yes.

    And 200 of the 400 sips are "self-bonus", i.e., those sips exist only for you, as bonus sips from your artie vial.

    If you're selling sips, 4 batches is just straight 200 sips. (Whereas before you could sell 480 sips on 4 batches.)
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
    DraedethaDochitha
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellaterePosts: 2,606Member, Seafaring Liason @@ - Legendary Achaean
    So long, my refiller... I knew you well :(


    Rangor
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,135Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    So Artie vials just became worth it


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • XiasXias Posts: 96Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Atalkez said:
    So Artie vials just became worth it
    For sure. Honestly, just because I'm lazy, they were always worth it since I never had to worry about theft or decay  =)
  • AtalkezAtalkez Posts: 4,135Member, Secret Squirrel @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I might end up getting one for health mana and restoration


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • NazihkNazihk Posts: 785Member @ - Epic Achaean
    It depends on how much the refills cost, imo.

    40cr is ~400,000 gold right now. I buy health sips for 119 gold for 200 sips. 400,000 gold is 3,361 refills is 672,000 health sips. So if you buy an artifact vial for health sips, you need to use up 672,000 sips before the vial actually starts saving you money.

    If you're using bound credits from a membership or something then the value changes, of course, but I can think of a lot of things I can do with 40cr that I'd prioritize over "spend a bit less on refills".

  • TalamondTalamond Probably the Great Library of RamPosts: 125Member ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Just FYI:
    Silvertongue Supplies (indoors).

    -fill mana with mana
    A silvered glass vial is not empty.
    -fill 512315 with mana
    A silvered glass vial is not empty.
    -fill 512315 with mana from rift
    You fill a silvered glass vial with 173 sips of an elixir of mana from your rift, bringing the total
    remaining sips in the rift to 1627.

  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaPosts: 2,274Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    You can only buy from shops in full batches of 200 sips, i.e., you can only buy into empty vials.
    (Mhaldor): Herenicus says, "Apologies, I am in-and-out of hold with Verizon wireless customer service."
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