What Happened To You Today?

Rinku · January 2016

@Cynlael

Much appreciated. I will do that. It won't help during the times I just leave home and forget I was idling inside the pavilion though....like I just did, ha.

Aegoth · January 2016

If people actually waited for defenders to attack them, there would be literally 0 raids. Ever. It's absurd to be asking raiders to "wait until they attack you first for a sanction", because no one would ever be dumb enough to give the enemy team a sanction in the first place. they'd just keep sitting AFK, or keep bashing outside of the city. Thanks, but no thanks

Aesi · January 2016

I think it's more to allow common sense to prevail.

So it's not like HAR HAR ALL YOUR NEWBS R DED.

Rinku · January 2016

Aegoth said:

If people actually waited for defenders to attack them, there would be literally 0 raids. Ever. It's absurd to be asking raiders to "wait until they attack you first for a sanction", because no one would ever be dumb enough to give the enemy team a sanction in the first place. they'd just keep sitting AFK, or keep bashing outside of the city. Thanks, but no thanks

Not to mention, it's pretty reckless for the defenders to just rush in and attack the enemy raiders after they are entrenched and set up and waiting for you with every possible defensive measure they can think of. You have a good chance of dying, so why risk it? It won't accomplish anything but an xp loss for you all.

So yeah, doing such would lead to 0 raids ever happening. People aren't going to recklessly come after you, unless you give them a reason to....like to stop you from slaughtering your mates.

Atalkez · January 2016

I think if you're a member of the city army, you should be open to attack only INSIDE the city for the purposes of starting a sanction. Random 1 dudes running in to radiance 1 guy for no other reason than city soldier is not good, though.

In the end, the rules can't encompass everyone. It's not going to be an umbrella that covers every niche of the topic. It's up to the player base to handle it. If you're a city soldier, quite frankly it's part of your job to defend the city. If you're indisposed/unavailable then just qq/journal/hunt/board ship. You can't be attacked outside of the city unless you're otherwise open PK.

Kasya · January 2016

Aegoth said:

If people actually waited for defenders to attack them, there would be literally 0 raids. Ever. It's absurd to be asking raiders to "wait until they attack you first for a sanction", because no one would ever be dumb enough to give the enemy team a sanction in the first place. they'd just keep sitting AFK, or keep bashing outside of the city. Thanks, but no thanks

Not to mention, the RP would be absurd. We've come to lay siege to your city! So um. Hi. We're here.

Which I know there are raids like that when a city won't defend, but I'd take an ooc message of we really don't wanna do this right now to invading a city but waiting for pk cause to be able to attempt to gain sanction any day.

Atalkez · January 2016

Let's not forget that "cause" doesn't exist anymore.

Is there a good RP reason why a Targossian radianced an Ashtani as a precursor to a raid? Yeah, there is.
That's not to say that it should happen anytime someone wants, and I would certainly support punishment for someone abusing the city soldier status for that purpose primarily. If a group is in your city, it's time to buck up and fight or send an ooc message that you're not ready/don't have people/no interest or whatever. Relying on "not having cause", is a losing prospect imo.

Elawien · January 2016

To derail this conversation, because I feel sad:

I decided to retire my main character today after a lot of good memories with her. I tried RPing it out with her one favourite daughter because that's all she cares about and, well. That's all fine and dandy.

Come to find out that her IC husband (and one of my best friends IRL) removed me from Skype so I get a little miffed - sure, I raid the city you're in. Don't get mad at me because I'm choosing not to metagame and actually roleplay my character out with who she hates and why she's doing what she's doing.

I'm playing a character in Targossas. She opposes Chaos, Evil, and Darkness. Get over it.

Anywho, she's husbandless now even though she never got to tell him and we're friends on skype again after I removed him in return? I'm confused.

-----

Anyway. I killed @Kasa twice and it was great. Yay. That's about it, other than afk during a city forum b/c real life was happening. (Sorry @Rohai and @Quisse.)

Aereidhna · January 2016

Started some crown trades and explored a bunch with @Sile, who is an amazing protege - and really fun to RP with - and chatted with @Releon, my other awesome protege. Had an overdue chat to catch up with momma @Phelia and @Navarr.

Valkyn · January 2016

Atalkez said:

Let's not forget that "cause" doesn't exist anymore.

Is there a good RP reason why a Targossian radianced an Ashtani as a precursor to a raid? Yeah, there is.
That's not to say that it should happen anytime someone wants, and I would certainly support punishment for someone abusing the city soldier status for that purpose primarily. If a group is in your city, it's time to buck up and fight or send an ooc message that you're not ready/don't have people/no interest or whatever. Relying on "not having cause", is a losing prospect imo.

The shrine and city rules, and general don't be a dick seem to overrule this. You don't have to have 'cause', you do have to have a reason beyond 'THEY ARE MY ENEMY KILL MAIM'. Admin have said this repeatedly.

There are several ways to instigate raids beyond just radiancing random people, and I'm sure you are aware of them! Radiancing people is just lazy.

Atalkez · January 2016

Valkyn said:

Atalkez said:

Let's not forget that "cause" doesn't exist anymore.

Is there a good RP reason why a Targossian radianced an Ashtani as a precursor to a raid? Yeah, there is.
That's not to say that it should happen anytime someone wants, and I would certainly support punishment for someone abusing the city soldier status for that purpose primarily. If a group is in your city, it's time to buck up and fight or send an ooc message that you're not ready/don't have people/no interest or whatever. Relying on "not having cause", is a losing prospect imo.

The shrine and city rules, and general don't be a dick seem to overrule this. You don't have to have 'cause', you do have to have a reason beyond 'THEY ARE MY ENEMY KILL MAIM'. Admin have said this repeatedly.

There are several ways to instigate raids beyond just radiancing random people, and I'm sure you are aware of them! Radiancing people is just lazy.

You said the same thing I did. If you can justify it beyond "lolenemy", then yes you have a leg to stand on.

While you're right that there are several ways to instigate a raid, against this particular faction nearly all "traditional" means have been eradicated. There aren't any shrines, and the "Open PK" people are even fewer than the shrines. So you're advocating a faction being unassailable unless there are 2 people in the city that is a Mark/Infamous? That's not leaving much room for anyone to do anything.

Edit: Radiance isn't lazy, imo. Radiance forces the person to actually respond, either by coming to the monk directly or leaving the city. Either way, the defenders are alerted that they are under attack.

Qwyn · January 2016

Radiance is the newb-check of all newb-checks. To cite using it (outside of an entrenched situation, where it's being used to scatter people turtling) as a valid fight opening is essentially stating that you pretty please kthnx want to kill newbs/non-comms/afk people.

Cynlael · January 2016

Atalkez said:
So you're advocating a faction being unassailable unless there are 2 people in the city that is a Mark/Infamous? That's not leaving much room for anyone to do anything.

Are you serious? Bro, how many raids did you defend against (or do, for that matter) while Ashtani, that started just because of people slaying NPCs, and have people on CT say 'Yo, enemies. Let's go kill them.'

Regarding the bolded, you've already in the past said (or advocated, I don't wanna find posts) that people shouldn't have to play by another's " RP. " Why are you suddenly changing this, hmm? We kinda don't have to give you guys something to do, just because you decide you feel like raiding us. Attacking people because we don't feel the desire to acknowledge your presence is just dickish.

Atalkez · January 2016

Qwyn said:

Radiance is the newb-check of all newb-checks. To cite using it (outside of an entrenched situation, where it's being used to scatter people turtling) as a valid fight opening is essentially stating that you pretty please kthnx want to kill newbs/non-comms/afk people.

Anyone in my party radiancing a newb/novice/obvious non-comm is going to get bitched at. Afk? Not my problem there. I log in to play Achaea, not alt-tab into other stuff. I've died to stuff because AFK plenty. No ones fault but your/my own. Nothing wrong with Radiance at all (btw I'm not a monk, I don't use it personally, but it's absolutely a viable tactic), there are far more uses than you've listed there. Is it the go-to opener for a fight? No. Is it useful for situations? Absolutely. I can't tell you how many sanctions I've been a part of that were secured primarily because of Radiance. That's an issue more with the Monk kit, though.

Cynlael said:

Atalkez said:
So you're advocating a faction being unassailable unless there are 2 people in the city that is a Mark/Infamous? That's not leaving much room for anyone to do anything.

Are you serious? Bro, how many raids did you defend against (or do, for that matter) while Ashtani, that started just because of people slaying NPCs, and have people on CT say 'Yo, enemies. Let's go kill them.'

Regarding the bolded, you've already in the past said (or advocated, I don't wanna find posts) that people shouldn't have to play by another's " RP. " Why are you suddenly changing this, hmm? We kinda don't have to give you guys something to do, just because you decide you feel like raiding us. Attacking people because we don't feel the desire to acknowledge your presence is just dickish.

In response...

Atalkez said:

If a group is in your city, it's time to buck up and fight or send an ooc message that you're not ready/don't have people/no interest or whatever. Relying on "not having cause", is a losing prospect imo.

@Cynlael

I'm not asking anyone to play to -my- RP. I'm saying you should respect your own. AFK isn't RP. Being a city soldier means defending your city regardless of the costs associated with doing so, from an in-character perspective. If for whatever reason you or your team aren't interested, ^ as I said. Anyone is well within their boundaries to choose not to fight. Don't call it RP though, when you're a city soldier in a factional city that's been a protagonist in the story of Achaea for 10+ years. That's not what being a city soldier is about. There is literally no function to being a soldier of your city except for raiding/raid defense and the boons you get from such. It serves no other function to the game. Being a city soldier should not make you open PK for any reason at any time, I would never agree with that. Killing a city soldier to sanction a raid (when there are no other "PKable" people around, or shrines to defile, or any meaningful way to instigate conflict) to me is not a problem. If you don't want to deal with it, just leave the city! Very easy to get around even this.

How to start a raid:
Kill people (being discussed)
Defile shrines (Ashtan has like 2 because the Order of Babel has said lolno a long long time ago to shrine conflict, and no one in the city gives a shit about Vastar let's be real)
Kill denizens (More often than not will get you laughed at with 0 response. There is no consequence to losing a denizen)
Stand on defendable shouting (lol)

I would love to hear ideas on how to start a raid, and make the defenders actually want to fight (we were outnumbered today and got no response) while keeping it fun for everyone. We had 5 (maybe 6?) people inside the city, with me being the only mainstay raider. Anedhel/Will/Farrah/Aethelwulf are hardly scary yet in a group scenario vs a good defense+font (love you all!). Anyone is welcome to disagree with anything I've said, and I'll read/listen up until someone is trying to use "but I want to AFK in peace" as a defense. Achaea is a living breathing world. Be a part of it or not, that's your choice, but don't get angry at the rest of us for being in it. Until we get better conflict generation (or a War system that actually is worth using), this is what we've got.

I try to be fair to people regardless of faction, and I even warned the others today about Radiancing people who aren't strictly open to PK, for this very reason. I disagree with it pretty heavily, though. The justification of the conflict in Achaea is entirely too arbitrary and heavily skewed in the favor of those who wish to remain out of conflict. I don't mind that. I do have an issue when you're actually putting yourself into a group (Army) that the entire purpose is for offense/defensive raids. I know Ashtan doesn't require Army membership, so that's a choice that you willingly make for your character the same as in any other city. I personally don't take that lightly.

Overall people are pretty good about trying to make raids fun for everyone involved. If you're not interested, a simple message to a reasonable leader on the other side will accomplish what you're wanting.

Anedhel · January 2016

Ashtani whining about the unfairness of people coming in to mess with you for no reason other than seeking a fight is beyond precious.

ETA: The whole 'defenders coming to you' thing is also kind of... erm... unrealistic? We were in 4v14-15 in Ashtan earlier, and no one ever came. (It was Atalkez, Aethelwulf, Will, and myself versus all of Ashtan's CWHO). If you don't want to be part of a raid, leave? Personally, I consider anyone hanging around who's not a newcomer after about ten minutes when the first person's died/raiders have been announced in City limits to be part of the defenders, tbh.

Also, if you get radianced and you feel it's unfair, hire? No one's said you can't hire on the person who murdered you to start a sanction.

Qwyn · January 2016

I'm not very accepting with the "afk = screw you" sentiment I've seen on this thread, forums in general and in the game. Achaea has a fairly antiquated view of afk - I'm absolutely fine with someone screwing me over for being afk...but that's only if the game gives me reasonable options to circumvent it. If there were a better way to go afk (something that HAPPENS in an adult gamer's playtime), I'd understand the lack of sympathy for it. However, having players pick between an entire qq and getting to a physical location for news if they want to grab a quick smoke, respond to an email from work, answer a phone call, etc, seems very 1990. Aetolia lets you do NEWS from everywhere (with the obvious caveats of punishment if you abuse it) - were this an option, I expect you'd see a lot less random afk in Achaea.

Valkyn · January 2016

@Qwyn buy a journal!

Atalkez · January 2016

Qwyn said:

I'm not very accepting with the "afk = screw you" sentiment I've seen on this thread, forums in general and in the game. Achaea has a fairly antiquated view of afk - I'm absolutely fine with someone screwing me over for being afk...but that's only if the game gives me reasonable options to circumvent it. If there were a better way to go afk (something that HAPPENS in an adult gamer's playtime), I'd understand the lack of sympathy for it. However, having players pick between an entire qq and getting to a physical location for news if they want to grab a quick smoke, respond to an email from work, answer a phone call, etc, seems very 1990. Aetolia lets you do NEWS from everywhere (with the obvious caveats of punishment if you abuse it) - were this an option, I expect you'd see a lot less random afk in Achaea.

To be clear: It's not that I dislike AFK or think people should never do it. I think using it as a reason to base other expectations of the world is unrealistic. I don't know that you're afk when I start sniping you, or prism to you because you're off a guard stack just chilling. That burden shouldn't be on any player except the one that needs to AFK. With that said:

walkto post, get 100 gold, request letter, write letter - 100 gold, useable anywhere but has to be in the post to get letter. Can also buy a stationary kit for letters on your person at all times.

get journal from pack, write journal page 100 - 5000 gold, useable anywhere and (as you said) has repercussions if you use it to avoid conflict directly. Ala journal mid-duel etc, not because a totem is getting smudged. Completely find to do that.

pp;shipreturn - costs minimum of 2.5 million gold and some lessons for Seafaring

You have options. Whether or not people want to use them is another story. It seems that most people want to be able to AFK without any issues whatsoever. That's not how Achaea is, though.

The last time this was brought up, people were complaining about wanting to send tells and they can't do that from journal (or maybe it was the ship changes that got instantly removed for this same reasoning). It's ridiculous to expect the world to pause for you because you have to step away from the keyboard. It doesn't stop when you qq, why would it stop when you have to answer the phone?

There are plenty of options that allow you to step away without issue.

Klendathu · January 2016

Atalkez said:
Defile shrines (Ashtan has like 2 because the Order of Babel has said lolno a long long time ago to shrine conflict, and no one in the city gives a shit about Vastar let's be real)

I care, turncoat /forum-rp

Qwyn · January 2016

Post: That's not an option if you're off bashing in the wilderness, is it? I've not seen any post offices there.

Journal: Is that actually allowed? That's viewed as cheating in other IRE games, and there are combat cooldowns to prevent it. Same with projects. If that's allowed here, that's great, but in other IRE games, that's viewed as potential shrubbery. Even if it is allowed, it's hardly something that's advertised to a new player as an easy way to go afk.

A ship: 2.5 million gold minimum investment, from your own words. I have to think you're just being facetious at this point.

These are not easy, viable or fun options and not appealing if you need to pop out for just a few minutes to check on dinner, the baby, or answer a call from work. These are not appealing options - trust me, I'd rather vanish legitimately, but I am not going to spend 10 minutes going back through the wilderness to find a post office or newsroom, when I just need to shoot off a quick email to work or ensure dinner isn't burning.

There is a difference between expecting people to alter their gameplay and hoping people have some compassion for the fact that you are a real person behind the character. Most of us aren't 18 years old playing from our dorm rooms all night anymore, and with that comes changes in how we play the game.

TBH, I suspect we're kinda arguing the same-ish point - you're just coming at it from the angle of someone wanting to attack targets, and I'm stating "Hey, I'm happy to be a target, but I really only would like to be one when I am present, so give me ways to remove myself from things if I'm not here."

Anedhel · January 2016

Journals are 100% acceptable options and they work exactly like the news room does.

Atalkez · January 2016

Qwyn said:

Post: That's not an option if you're off bashing in the wilderness, is it? I've not seen any post offices there.

Journal: Is that actually allowed? That's viewed as cheating in other IRE games, and there are combat cooldowns to prevent it. Same with projects. If that's allowed here, that's great, but in other IRE games, that's viewed as potential shrubbery. Even if it is allowed, it's hardly something that's advertised to a new player as an easy way to go afk.

A ship: 2.5 million gold minimum investment, from your own words. I have to think you're just being facetious at this point.

These are not easy, viable or fun options and not appealing if you need to pop out for just a few minutes to check on dinner, the baby, or answer a call from work. These are not appealing options - trust me, I'd rather vanish legitimately, but I am not going to spend 10 minutes going back through the wilderness to find a post office or newsroom, when I just need to shoot off a quick email to work or ensure dinner isn't burning.

There is a difference between expecting people to alter their gameplay and hoping people have some compassion for the fact that you are a real person behind the character. Most of us aren't 18 years old playing from our dorm rooms all night anymore, and with that comes changes in how we play the game.

Post is not an option in wilderness, quite true! Journal is, and is not frowned upon unless used for the sole purpose of avoiding immediate PK (IE: You just got rushed by 2 people, you walk 2 rooms and journal. That's against the rules. Journaling because you have to step away if perfectly okay assuming you're not in-the-middle-of-fighting)

A ship: I wasn't being facetious, I was making the point that there are more options than just the post. Cheap? Haha no.

You're right. I'm not 18 playing from a dorm anymore either. I'm 27 with a 4 year old daughter, so yeah I get that shit comes up. In fact, judging from the most recent age poll, most of Achaea are mid-twenties to early-thirties.

I know plenty of people that have compassion for lots of things. I personally will do plenty of things that make no sense IC because of OOC compassion, because that's just being a decent person. Unfortunately, on this topic, I have very little compassion when there are so many options to "escape" from the game without fully quitting if you need to.

send("open pack;get journal from pack;write journal page 20")

It's really that simple, takes 15 seconds to make the alias, and it's instant. IIRC there are no health costs to journal, but I could be wrong. Even if there are, if you're needing to afk chances are you're not fighting a mob/person and can safely sip/journal.

Klendathu said:

Atalkez said:
Defile shrines (Ashtan has like 2 because the Order of Babel has said lolno a long long time ago to shrine conflict, and no one in the city gives a shit about Vastar let's be real)
I care, turncoat /forum-rp

Sorry, non-Farethi is probably more accurate!

Qwyn · January 2016

The journal thing is something I'll use, then. I completely honestly had no idea this was a valid ok option - I've played other IRE games and that's been viewed as a no-no, and nothing in my Achaea experience has made me think it's been an ok option. TBH, I've been really darn frustrated lately, because I'm a smoker and I work from home - between the two, combined with the "OMG U GON BE ROBBED" warnings, I've been incredibly twitchy and paranoid, since I've been out bashing in wilderness areas.

I shall claim some bonus points for successfully derailing the angreh city stuff into help for my newbishness! See, yall totes can get along! (you just need a common newb/enemy)

Antonius · January 2016

Most people aren't going to go through the wilderness on the off chance that there's somebody there to rob, especially if there's plenty of viable targets much closer. It's probably the safest place (that potential thieves can also access) to AFK without taking any other precautions. Obviously there's no concerns about being killed to sanction a raid if you're that far away from the city.

People make a huge deal about being robbed, but it's really not that bad. Maybe it's from old players and the attitude is left over from the times when you could lose absolutely everything, including very valuable items, but that's not the case any more. Don't keep tons and tons of gold on you (that's what the bank is for), maybe set up some basic anti-theft.

Tahquil · January 2016

Atalkez : Just looking at your ways of instigating a sanctioned raid I didn't see the 'stand in city limits and proselytize' option. That would pretty cool. The raiding party comes in to an enemy city and starts preaching. Kill those who try to interrupt your sermon then you know they are making the choice to get involved (this would of course include yells for you to stop). Good RP, people of the city have the option of getting involved or not, maybe recruit a few people.

edit : Can't get rid of that null link though I never tried to link something

Garai · January 2016

Got an adventurer kill. Hoo-ah!

Also figured out how to pummel a lot better. I am liking this combat thing.

@Kasa is amazing mentor.

Also:

Got level 70 and became a soldier, yay
Got level 71 from killing Tesha, also yay (perhaps less yay for the dead person, but yay me)
Got HR4
Got my ass handed to me in a free for all by @Seragorn, but he's a really cool guy and when I asked what I did wrong I got a very detailed explanation.

Farrah · January 2016

@Atalkez I did not join the Ashtan raid!

Also, I have not worked much with Will or Aethelwulf, but Anedhel is pretty great at group combat.

Kiet · January 2016

Anedhel said:

Ashtani whining about the unfairness of people coming in to mess with you for no reason other than seeking a fight is beyond precious.

ETA: The whole 'defenders coming to you' thing is also kind of... erm... unrealistic? We were in 4v14-15 in Ashtan earlier, and no one ever came. (It was Atalkez, Aethelwulf, Will, and myself versus all of Ashtan's CWHO). If you don't want to be part of a raid, leave? Personally, I consider anyone hanging around who's not a newcomer after about ten minutes when the first person's died/raiders have been announced in City limits to be part of the defenders, tbh.

Also, if you get radianced and you feel it's unfair, hire? No one's said you can't hire on the person who murdered you to start a sanction.

I mean this is exactly what we had to do several times vs Targ before the supernoob influx and Tesha returning from holidays or whatever. No one responded even to our defilings and superior numbers, so we left. So if Ashtan whining about unfairness is precious, Targ espousing this is pretty precious, too!

I don't really have an opinion one way or the other. I usually just ditch if the other city isn't interested in mounting a defense, there's like 4 (5 if you hate Cyrene) cities you can raid at any one point. I also don't particularly find a single pk that upsetting, though.

Morthif · January 2016

Qwyn said:

The journal thing is something I'll use, then. I completely honestly had no idea this was a valid ok option - I've played other IRE games and that's been viewed as a no-no, and nothing in my Achaea experience has made me think it's been an ok option. TBH, I've been really darn frustrated lately, because I'm a smoker and I work from home - between the two, combined with the "OMG U GON BE ROBBED" warnings, I've been incredibly twitchy and paranoid, since I've been out bashing in wilderness areas.

I shall claim some bonus points for successfully derailing the angreh city stuff into help for my newbishness! See, yall totes can get along! (you just need a common newb/enemy)

You can't journal to escape combat but if you're just idle and want to AFK its fine.

Corbeaux · January 2016

Atalkez said:

Defile shrines (Ashtan has like 2 because the Order of Babel has said lolno a long long time ago to shrine conflict, and no one in the city gives a shit about Vastar let's be real)

Haha, to be fair, there's like only one (maybe two) characters that can actually raise a Babel shrine due to the upper echelons of the Order being dormant.

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