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April Wheel / Contenders Talismans

ZulahZulah Posts: 758Member @ - Epic Achaean

While the wheel itself is good for spins and rewards the availability of the contenders talisman pieces is gated behind too many RNG's that make it nearly impossible to collect pieces for those of us willing to flat out pay for them.
(Because lets face it you gotta pay to get these, free spins aren't going to cut it)

RNG that the spin gives you a cache
RNG that the cache gives you a decent piece
RNG that the decent piece isn't one you have

I've purchased 21 spins off the site and several from other players as well as outright buying caches for this.

All said and done I've put $300 down and gotten 13 caches back. Of these 13 caches I saw:

-----------------------------------------
2  contenders bouquetknot
1  contenders bouquetbloom
2  contenders pigbelly
1  contenders pigears
1  contenders pigclay
1  contenders pigtail
1 contenders jughandle
1 contenders juglip
1 contenders jugbowl
1 contenders jugbase
1  contenders contenderfigurinearms
1  contenders glassfocus
1  contenders glassframe
------------------------------------------

I myself am after the journal talisman like many others. This looks like a really fun item to increase the enjoyment and expand on my personal gameplay. Not make me op in pvp.

With the current numbers above I'm almost sure I could %100 get a Tesla for cheaper than a simple journal...

Granted, yes you will have to trade and such to get all the pieces you need, you're almost never going to pull them all yourself, which is a good thing as it encourages interaction with players.

With most talismans when they first come out we got the: Buy X times and you'll get a higher %
This set doesn't offer that option. I actually purchased regular credits off the site over spins a bit ago because I was doing trades and figured a no bonus credit purchase was of higher value than the spins for me (As the cache is all I want from the wheel)

I've won 2 of the 500cr jackpots on the wheel and I still have no personal desire to buy more spins. I'll wait and hope I can just buy someone else a lessThanTesla car for the journal. Maybe a nice little Volvo?

TL:DR
Fix trash cache plz

RyzanTasuuKayeilBoosteyaPrythe
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Comments

  • SeragornSeragorn Posts: 30Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    Agree, at the current rate its entirely possible there wont be any journals completed at all, if so not many.. We're 1/3 of the way thru the month and I've seen 2 of the 4 pieces (and theres usually an influx at the start of the month).  Sad thing is the Journal is the 3rd lowest value item, I'm yet to see or hear of a single piece from the stud or ribbon.

    I'm sure there are plenty of pieces out there that I'm unaware of, but compared to most of the sets which have some real high value reward items in them, this set is very uninspiring.  And with the incredibly low chance of even finding a valuable piece theres no real motivation to spin.

    I've had something like 70 spins and the most likely reward I've seen has been collections caches and those clouded glass bottles.  I've seen 1 journal piece from my own caches, the rest have been pig/jug/bouquet/figurine pieces, the figurine pieces being the highest value at 31 but the majority are pig/jug pieces at 7-12 redeem which makes the caches into a huge loss from the wheel.

    In the past one of the main reasons people did spin was for the caches, because when they delivered 2 pieces you could consider them a net positive reward and they had the potential to payout with some rng, that motivation is definitely gone now.

    Having the contenders caches give 2 pieces instead of 1 would balance it slightly, but I still cant see it inspiring many to chase them.

    @Makarios @Nicola ;

    ZulahBoosteyaPrythe
  • FaedwynFaedwyn Posts: 15Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Thought I'd try a few (5) spins. 50 bound credits, clouded glass bottle, 10 humgii tickets, and an ice figurine.

    Nary a cache in sight. I know it is random, but that's still pretty appalling.
  • ConnellConnell Posts: 36Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I regret buying my spins. 
    RyzanZheoNyneve
  • TiamatTiamat Posts: 78Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 10
    I usually buy spins and globes, but over the last few cycles the garden has been decreasing the payout on caches. Let’s all face it, the wheel is gambling but this time around it’s not even worth it. Like even expensive sets where you had to buy 100 credits for one piece was better as it was a set odd, instead of praying you get a cache and then pray you get a good piece after that. Seems like the spins are working against us this time for a flat out less than ok set of talismans. Yet again making it more of the elitist game that so many people complain about. I think this round really validates some people’s arguments I’ve heard in the past. 
  • ZulahZulah Posts: 758Member @ - Epic Achaean
    edited April 10
    I'd like to point out my "rant" is not directed at the wheel, but the cache drop rate off the wheel and the quality drop rate of pieces from them. Add in the newer policy of one piece (2 is rare luck)

    I actually enjoy helping to support achaea and like when I'm offered new rewards for doing so. This one just feels like the finish line was pushed a bit too far.

    You made a cool item players want and isn't even combat based. Give us a way to acquire it please
    MindshellTjayBoosteya
  • CaelanCaelan Posts: 990Member ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Tiamat said:
    I usually buy spins and globes, but over the last few cycles the garden has been decreasing the payout on caches. Let’s all face it, the wheel is gambling but this time around it’s not even worth it. Like even expensive sets where you had to buy 100 credits for one piece was better as it was a set odd, instead of praying you get a cache and then pray you get a good piece after that. Seems like the spins are working against us this time for a flat out less than ok set of talismans. Yet again making it more of the elitist game that so many people complain about. I think this round really validates some people’s arguments I’ve heard in the past. 
    Zulah said:
    I'd like to point out my "rant" is not directed at the wheel, but the cache drop rate off the wheel and the quality drop rate of pieces from them. Add in the newer policy of one piece (2 is rare luck)

    I actually enjoy helping to support achaea and like when I'm offered new rewards for doing so. This one just feels like the finish line was pushed a bit too far.

    You made a cool item players want and isn't even combat based. Give us a way to acquire it please

    I enjoy supporting Achaea, but I also enjoy supporting my family.  I've stopped buying anything more than Elite because I just don't find the value (and even considered just getting rid of that too). I agree with Tiamat that it *FEELS* like it's been dicked with, and thus not worth my money.  I am fully aware that it's a gamble, but I'd rather buy real Lotto tickets than go for talisman pieces.  Especially because there's so many rare pieces that are completely unacquirable from old sets still.. I don't need more incomplete sets.

  • LeviticusLeviticus Posts: 311Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I understand that not EVERY promotion can be a victory for the playerbase or we'd have a lot more balancing to do (and when I say we I mean Mak and his team). A lot of people have been complaining about promotions. If we stop buying anything, Achaea loses their projected income and they will IMMEDIATELY remedy that. Business 101.
    Asmodron
  • BrenexBrenex Posts: 75Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Man, that's a huge bummer. I'm really enjoying spending my time exploring and questing and obviously have had my eyes on the journal but I've just been using free spins for now. It seems like even if I spent the money it still wouldn't happen. I have gotten one prismatic spin so far from the free spins which led to an artefact discount voucher which was just ok.

    Caelan
  • AntoniusAntonius Posts: 4,453Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Every promotion does what it's intended to do: give you more than you would have for the same amount spent if no promotion was being run. For the playerbase as a whole, every promotion is a "victory", but some promotions (especially gambling ones) may end up being a "loss" for specific individuals.

    One part of the problem is that the wheel and globes have, in the past, been far too good relative to other promotions, and that's created an expectation for those promotions that can't/won't be met going forward (I assume they've been adjusted downwards to more closely match the bonus from other promotions, though I could be wrong).

    Another part of the problem is that some people only care about small parts of a promotion, and are (not justifiably, in my opinion) upset when they don't get as much of that particular part as they want. Caches are a tiny part of the prize pool from the wheel; the promotion is doing what it's meant to, which is giving credits in various forms (only one of those forms is talisman pieces). If all you want is talisman pieces, this isn't really the promotion you want.

    Will they make adjustments? Probably. They're really good at doing that when they're told people are unhappy. I don't think they should, though, because I just think the expectations about what this promotion should be aren't realistic. I'll admit that the wheel doesn't seem like a great promotion to introduce a new talisman set with, though.
  • MinifieMinifie Posts: 1,708Member @ - Epic Achaean
    The thing is mak has been wonderful at listening to me complain when things don't seem right, or if rewards are a bit off (still a bit bummed on Sceptre pieces being non redeemable, since one of my plat stockings gave me 3 scripts rip), but one of the biggest issues is that we really don't need more talisman sets for a while. Probably just fluctuate having caches with different sets for a bit, giving us time to select the promos we want to indulge in, and then giving once a year "talisman set bag" promo they did where you can just pick bags for your favourite set. 

    I don't think Mak and Nic are trying to make shitty, terrible promos, with how much effort they go through to make sure they feel worth while and solid I do think they are actively trying to prevent it. I dunno, it also doesn't help that at some point, wheels etc become awful because bound credits etc for some are just worthless, so it's a double whammy (not for me, I could hit 100k escrow and still find lots to use bounds for :D).
  • TjayTjay Posts: 37Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Zulah said:

    While the wheel itself is good for spins and rewards the availability of the contenders talisman pieces is gated behind too many RNG's that make it nearly impossible to collect pieces for those of us willing to flat out pay for them.
    (Because lets face it you gotta pay to get these, free spins aren't going to cut it)

    RNG that the spin gives you a cache
    RNG that the cache gives you a decent piece
    RNG that the decent piece isn't one you have

    I've purchased 21 spins off the site and several from other players as well as outright buying caches for this.

    All said and done I've put $300 down and gotten 13 caches back. Of these 13 caches I saw:

    -----------------------------------------
    2  contenders bouquetknot
    1  contenders bouquetbloom
    2  contenders pigbelly
    1  contenders pigears
    1  contenders pigclay
    1  contenders pigtail
    1 contenders jughandle
    1 contenders juglip
    1 contenders jugbowl
    1 contenders jugbase
    1  contenders contenderfigurinearms
    1  contenders glassfocus
    1  contenders glassframe
    ------------------------------------------

    I myself am after the journal talisman like many others. This looks like a really fun item to increase the enjoyment and expand on my personal gameplay. Not make me op in pvp.

    With the current numbers above I'm almost sure I could %100 get a Tesla for cheaper than a simple journal...

    Granted, yes you will have to trade and such to get all the pieces you need, you're almost never going to pull them all yourself, which is a good thing as it encourages interaction with players.

    With most talismans when they first come out we got the: Buy X times and you'll get a higher %
    This set doesn't offer that option. I actually purchased regular credits off the site over spins a bit ago because I was doing trades and figured a no bonus credit purchase was of higher value than the spins for me (As the cache is all I want from the wheel)

    I've won 2 of the 500cr jackpots on the wheel and I still have no personal desire to buy more spins. I'll wait and hope I can just buy someone else a lessThanTesla car for the journal. Maybe a nice little Volvo?

    TL:DR
    Fix trash cache plz

    ive bought..... like 200 spins or so. ive gotten 2 journal pieces....

  • EkinEkin Posts: 8Member
    Is there no way to reroll pieces? Or is that not a viable option with how things are currently set up?
  • CooperCooper IowaPosts: 4,374Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The only thing that has changed with the wheel is caches opening for 1 piece instead of 2.

    The difference to me is that the talisman pieces that were released this month don't resonate with as many people, and there aren't any that are "oh my god I must have this" (examples of this: death cape, Maya Figurine, Suremekh'neina, Grand Magi).

    Those things really drove people to buy spins/globes.

    The other part is that the filler stuff (bound credits, artie vouchers, figurines, etc) haven't been updated in a long time and it doesn't feel fun to get those anymore. 

    Ozmatiah
  • TjayTjay Posts: 37Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 10
    I got 2 pieces out of the caches sometimes, and 1 others. I believe its random instead of constantly 2. Used to i would get 2, sometimes 3.

  • TiamatTiamat Posts: 78Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Minifie said:

    I don't think Mak and Nic are trying to make shitty, terrible promos, with how much effort they go through to make sure they feel worth while and solid I do think they are actively trying to prevent it. I dunno, it also doesn't help that at some point, wheels etc become awful because bound credits etc for some are just worthless, so it's a double whammy (not for me, I could hit 100k escrow and still find lots to use bounds for :D).
    I totally agree with this statement, and the admin are doing a wonderful job and I won’t detract from that overall. I just think the number of talisman sets being turned out are getting to be so many that it’s next to impossible to keep on top of, and the supply is extremely limited in some cases, depending on the promo.
    Caelan
  • FaedwynFaedwyn Posts: 15Member ✭✭ - Stalwart
    To clarify, I'd have loved to get a cache, but I was spinning for fun and expecting at least in the same ballpark as buying straight credits.

    $45 is what, 120 unbound credits with elite?

    At an equivalent value of about 95 bound credits for 5 spins, I definitely won't be taking part in any more promos...
    Brenex
  • IohannaIohanna Posts: 46Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Just wait until you buy a spin for someone, they get a cache, and then find out it's a minipet cache. That's what real disappointment feels like.
    XiasBoosteya
  • TiamatTiamat Posts: 78Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited April 10
    I also think some of the talisman pieces should just goto straight to money/credit artifacts. How unfair is it gonna be when maybe 5 people have a quest journal and that’s it for years and years. I’m not saying talismans shouldn’t have special items like the cape and maya figurine, just saying SOME of the items should be looked at in this regard. 

    maybe an alternate system where it costs crazy amounts of gold to convert gold into a special token so you can work up to said talisman pieces. This would also stabilize the ongoing gold/credit market complaint. 
    FaedwynPrythe
  • LeviticusLeviticus Posts: 311Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Antonius said:
    Every promotion does what it's intended to do: give you more than you would have for the same amount spent if no promotion was being run. For the playerbase as a whole, every promotion is a "victory", but some promotions (especially gambling ones) may end up being a "loss" for specific individuals.

    One part of the problem is that the wheel and globes have, in the past, been far too good relative to other promotions, and that's created an expectation for those promotions that can't/won't be met going forward (I assume they've been adjusted downwards to more closely match the bonus from other promotions, though I could be wrong).

    Another part of the problem is that some people only care about small parts of a promotion, and are (not justifiably, in my opinion) upset when they don't get as much of that particular part as they want. Caches are a tiny part of the prize pool from the wheel; the promotion is doing what it's meant to, which is giving credits in various forms (only one of those forms is talisman pieces). If all you want is talisman pieces, this isn't really the promotion you want.

    Will they make adjustments? Probably. They're really good at doing that when they're told people are unhappy. I don't think they should, though, because I just think the expectations about what this promotion should be aren't realistic. I'll admit that the wheel doesn't seem like a great promotion to introduce a new talisman set with, though.
    I agree with you. I have spent a lot of money the past couple of months and the return on investment was absolutely amazing. Mak has been extremely generous and nice to me over the years. Free stuff is free stuff! I love it. I am 100 percent behind the Achaean team and making money because it feeds my addiction. Not every part of a promotion can be amazing.
  • TjayTjay Posts: 37Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I hope death talisman promo comes back soon. I'll spend money till I get deathcape... Just saying... Maybe I should @ the admin lol.

  • TjayTjay Posts: 37Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I also wish I would have tracked all of my winnings for how many spins I did. 

  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellaterePosts: 2,686Member, Seafaring Liason @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Personally I'm not super fond of the cache system. It's probably compounded by the fact that more often than not, it's used as gamble within a gamble. Sometimes it's even a gamble within a gamble within a gamble because you may not even get a cache that opens for that particular set. Even then, it's not an actual item with a function, it's just a piece of an item. :(

    So when it comes to a set that doesn't have any big PVE or PVP combat uses (and hence not particularly popular), logically the chances of you getting to complete the item are pretty damn miniscule.

    I'm also not big on the idea that 'there are pieces, people could complete it if they trade' is also a bit flawed because:
    Firstly, the distribution of pieces is already so low.
    Secondly, a lot of people wouldn't be opening those caches if they weren't hoping for a particular item (journal seems popular). So everyone is holding on to their journal pieces while asking for journal pieces (iirc pieces are often weighted differently too so chances are y'all got the same parts anyway). It's kind of a deadlock.


    ZulahMelodie
  • ZulahZulah Posts: 758Member @ - Epic Achaean
    edited April 11
    Skye said:
    a gamble within a gamble within a gamble
    @Skye this exactly. Along with everything else you said is true, I feel like I need gamblers anonymous when a wheel/newCache hits
    CaelanBoosteya
  • DaironDairon Posts: 287Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Another downside is redeem value. While it benefits most people that want bound credits, it lessens the chance of finding that one piece you need, since someone might have redeemed it without knowing the market value. 

    I think I had an easier time with island wing pieces than the recent sets. Back then, we could estimate the number of available sets out in the market. 

    Now, I know theres 15 conclave wingsleft pieces and maybe one binding. 
  • KyrraKyrra Sanctum of the SkyPosts: 4,561Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bought 5 spins on an alt a few days ago, got two talisman caches, and redeemed contenders pieces because I needed the bound credits more.
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

    ZulahFaedwyn
  • TahquilTahquil Posts: 3,950Member @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Everyone after reading Kyrra's post :  

    FaedwynXiasBoosteya
  • MinifieMinifie Posts: 1,708Member @ - Epic Achaean
    Tahquil said:
    Everyone after reading Kyrra's post :  

    She paid for them, was her spins. I'm more interested in knowing how many BCR she got at least!

    @Kyrra Sate my curosity? mew? :3
    Faedwyn
  • LennLenn Posts: 120Member ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Legend claims that hidden across the texts of HELP PK is a secret eighth rule permitting open and free PK of anyone who redeemed the last talisman piece you needed instead of selling it to you for a better profit.
    FaedwynBoosteyaPrytheShirszae
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