Chess

Nyboe

Please fix the chess notation. The notation that is currently displayed is for the opposite side. I only played black so far and it showing the board notation of it was on the white side.

I know a lot of people don't play chess but for those who do, it would really make a difference.

Thank you.

Edit: Also the checkmate shows as check. It would be nice if that was fixed too.

Jonners

The following is taken from the Sapient Chess Club's (SCC) CLHELP BUGSANDIDEAS

~Movement Syntax~ Watching your opponent make a move can be very confusing. The board tells you how they moved from their perspective, and it can be hard to tell what moved where as a result.

To fix this my proposal is two-fold. Firstly, all alpha-numerical annotation (h7-h5) should be listed from white's perspective always. This includes both entering movements and return messages. Also, I'd like to see the descriptive annotation (KR2-KR4) be used in the same

line. This way, whichever style of notation you prefer, you can use it to make sense of your opponents moves. For example a black move, as seen from white's perspective. This is the exact same move both times.

As seen now~ move a2 to a4

Jonners orders his pawn at a2 to move to a4.

As it should be~ move h7 to h5

Jonners orders his pawn at KR2 (h7) to move to KR4 (h5).

Cardan

It's coded, just needs to wait for me to load it up but moves should soon appear as:

From the POV of Player1:

- move c1 to h6

You order your bishop at QB1 (C1) to move to KR6 (H6).

From the POV of everyone else in the room:

Player1 orders his bishop at QB8 (F8) to move to KR3 (A3).

Jonners

I hope you looked through the rest of that scroll bugsandideas in scc. There's a few things in there I would love to have fixed up!

Thanks Cardan, you're the best!

Cardan

Jonners said:

I hope you looked through the rest of that scroll bugsandideas in scc. There's a few things in there I would love to have fixed up!

Thanks Cardan, you're the best!

I did!

Once I load up these changes you will also be able to PLAY CHESS WITH <person> AS <LIGHT|WHITE|BLACK|DARK> and it will ask your opponent to AGREE before starting.

Promotion choice and match history will be a little trickier but I'll see what can be done there.

Nyboe

I just tested out to see if its displaying the notation for white properly and it is. But when you play as black it shows as white's notation.

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5114/howtochessnotation1.jpg

Above I posted a picture of what a chess board notation on the edge should look like. When I play as black the the letters and numbers on the right SHOULD not flip. The board should REMAIN STILL while the two people swap positions. So that means the black's back rank should be 8 as show in the imageshack picture above. Right now it shows as black's back rank as 1.

Edit:Ok here I show you what the notation should look like for black. This should clear up all confusion.

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3691/ble12ip4.gif

^See the back rank is 8 for black not 1. And the "a" is on the right corner from black's perspective. Right now in Achaea it currently shows the "a" is on the left side for black.

Iocun

Edit: Also the checkmate shows as check. It would be nice if that was fixed too.

That part would probably require quite some additional coding. It's very easy for a computer to detect a check situation, but detecting a checkmate would require quite some additional calculations. The easiest method would probably be to go through every possible move with every possible figure, check for each one if the resulting position is still a check position, and return checkmate if that is the case for all of them.

Sarapis

And that is why I didn't build in checkmate when I implemented chess way back when. Just not worth the processing time.

Berenene

@Sarapis: But you wouldn't need to write it all out yourself. I'm sure somewhere on the internet there is the programming code for Deep Blue.  Just copy/paste...what could possibly go wrong?...

Santar

@Sarapis

Just for nostalgia:

http://pastebin.com/1Rg22aei

6/22/06

Sarapis

Santar said:

@Sarapis

Just for nostalgia:

http://pastebin.com/1Rg22aei

6/22/06

Wow, that was really nostalgic and also pretty entertaining. Thanks!

Sylvance

I don't see why checkmate is that important. If you're in check (which it tells you) and you can't move anything anywhere, then you're in checkmate. If you can't see a way out of check then you'll resign and lose the game. It's... fairly similar to RL in that regard, because my RL chessboard doesn't tell me when I'm in checkmate either.

Chryenth

I have an electronic chessboard that never tired of gloating that I was in checkmate.

Then I figured out how to turn it from 'grandmaster' to 'n00b' and started winning.

Jonners

The match history looks awesome but could we have the descriptive notation listed too please? Perhaps like 'Light: A4-B5 (Q4 to QB5)'

Also at the bottom could we have the total number of moves listed? And finally instead of showing '%" to denote a side conceding could we have it said more descriptively? 'Dark: Jonners concedes' would do I'd think.

Nyboe

You know what would be awesome.

Rankings Chess.

Jonathin

You know what would be even better? If I could just click and drag my pieces across the board.

That would make me want to play.

Melodie

I am not a huge fan of chess, but occasionally I get bullied into losing a round. Click-and-drag chess sounds nice.

Camande

Could we also have a way to agree to a draw? Not every game ends with a winner and a loser.

Trevize

Santar said:

@Sarapis

Just for nostalgia:

http://pastebin.com/1Rg22aei

6/22/06

You say, "Arabi, ask for something more reasonable, like the ultimatedestruction of Shallam as a whole."


Heh.

Nyboe

Jonathin said:

You know what would be even better? If I could just click and drag my pieces across the board.

This is win.

Sena

I think clicking on a piece and then clicking on where you want to move it to could work, with MXP.

Jonathin

Looks like it's time to learn how to play chess so I can write a script for that.

Santar

Trevize said:

Santar said:

@Sarapis

Just for nostalgia:

http://pastebin.com/1Rg22aei

6/22/06

You say, "Arabi, ask for something more reasonable, like the ultimatedestruction of Shallam as a whole."


Heh.

Well, would that have been an unreasonable request?

Jonners

Camande said:

Could we also have a way to agree to a draw? Not every game ends with a winner and a loser.

This is a great idea that I should have thought of. That'll be going in the clan help scroll.

Cobra

Dear @Sarapis,

  Well done with this, at least now people can "see" where the pieces are.  Playing chess with you without this convenient feature was a bit difficult.  Nice work!

@Nyboe and everyone else,

  Be sure to contact me if you want to play a game of chess.  Looking forward to it.

Sincerely,

Cobra

Jonners

Cobra said:

Dear @Sarapis,

  Well done with this, at least now people can "see" where the pieces are.  Playing chess with you without this convenient feature was a bit difficult.  Nice work!

@Nyboe and everyone else,

  Be sure to contact me if you want to play a game of chess.  Looking forward to it.

Sincerely,

Cobra

You should join the clan Cobra. CLHELP SCC any Player or myself can induct.

Azor

Jonathin said:

You know what would be even better? If I could just click and drag my pieces across the board.

That would make me want to play.

Who wants to make a Mudlet script for this? I mean, that seafaring-mapper script, apparently anything's possible.

Trevize

Santar said:

Trevize said:

Santar said:

@Sarapis

Just for nostalgia:

http://pastebin.com/1Rg22aei

6/22/06

You say, "Arabi, ask for something more reasonable, like the ultimatedestruction of Shallam as a whole."


Heh.

Well, would that have been an unreasonable request?

It happened.

Jonners

As per @Tecton from the uStream yesterday I have compiled and expanded upon the SCC's bugsandideas help file. Yes, I was the one who made @Jumpy grab @Sarapis's chest. :P

The main issue, which I left to the bottom, is that while the movement syntax return is better than it was, it still needs to work to have it make sense all the time.

++

Where known bugs and ideas to improve chess for everyone shall go. Unfortunately, there are a number of areas needing improvement with chess in Achaea. This list may be incomplete; if you know of a bug, or have an idea not listed here please inform the Adjudicator. Special thanks goes to Cardan for all his hard work improving this game!

IDEAS

~Display Command~ A simple command such as DISPLAY CAMANDE to view the current game that is being played by Camande in the room. This would make it much simpler for people not playing to view the board without having to ask one of the players for the board number.

~Checkmate/Stalemate Checker~ Fairly self explanatory. Would make determining the end of the game easier.

~Optional Clock~ I'd like to see a Chess Clock added as an optional choice when starting a match. When each player makes a move they would stop their clock, and start their opponents. This helps spot stallers in tournaments, and can be used to give each player a time limit (eg. 2 hours for 40 moves). Hand in hand with the clock is a timer. Setting the timer to a certain interval in seconds, like 60, would allow for speed chess.

BUGS

~Help Chess~ This needs to be updated to include the new syntax for starting a game (namely colour choice), and the new match history syntax.

~Stalemates~ There should be a way for opponents to mutually declare a stalemate. I currently have four games that are waiting for this option to be implemented before they can be resolved appropriately. 

~Promotion Choice~ Currently a pawn promoted will always be promoted to a Queen. Admittedly the large majority of promotion scenarios calls for a Queen instead of a Knight or other piece. But, there are the exceptions to the rule. There is the psychological factor of choosing a lesser piece, and proving your skill by winning without a Queen promotion.

~Promotion Return~ Currently the game does not inform onlookers that a promotion has been made. Something similar to the following would be appropriate, with the name of the piece being promoted to changing if and when promotion choice becomes a reality.

"Having traversed the length of the board the [dark/light] pawn has been promoted to a Queen."

~Movement Syntax~ This has been changed to include long-notation but the syntax when seen by watchers is still confusing. This is a move from each side with the wording of the return as viewed by either player:

Move by light, as seen by light.

You order your pawn at K2 (E2) to move to K3 (E3).

Move by light, as seen by dark or people watching.

Jonners orders his pawn at K7 (D7) to move to K6 (D6).

Move by dark, as seen by dark.

You order your pawn at K2 (E2) to move to K3 (E3).

Move by dark, as seen by light or people watching.

Ourania orders her pawn at K7 (D7) to move to K6 (D6).

The short-notation (D7) needs to be set so it's the same from viewed from either side of the board. So light's Queen's Rook should be denoted as A1 absolutely so both sides of the board match rather than oppose each other as they do now; dark sees this same square as H8.

The long-form notation (QKt4) needs to be from the mover's perspective always. The thing to keep in mind is not what the other player should be seeing but what someone who is just watching and not playing is seeing. 

Also, for ease of being able to understand without having to look at the graphical representation of the board there should be a (light/dark) variable included in the movement return.

With all that in mind this is what I believe the finished return should look like for each player as seen by their opponent and the room:

Jonners (light) orders his pawn at K2 (E2) to move to K3 (E3).

Ourania (dark) orders her pawn at K2 (D7) to move to K3 (D6).

++

Cardan

Let's see if I can dissect this quote block properly....

Jonners said:

As per @Tecton from the uStream yesterday I have compiled and expanded upon the SCC's bugsandideas help file. Yes, I was the one who made @Jumpy grab @Sarapis's chest. :P

The main issue, which I left to the bottom, is that while the movement syntax return is better than it was, it still needs to work to have it make sense all the time.

++

Where known bugs and ideas to improve chess for everyone shall go. Unfortunately, there are a number of areas needing improvement with chess in Achaea. This list may be incomplete; if you know of a bug, or have an idea not listed here please inform the Adjudicator. Special thanks goes to Cardan for all his hard work improving this game!

Jonners said:

IDEAS

~Display Command~ A simple command such as DISPLAY CAMANDE to view the current game that is being played by Camande in the room. This would make it much simpler for people not playing to view the board without having to ask one of the players for the board number.

Seems easy enough.

Jonners said:

~Checkmate/Stalemate Checker~ Fairly self explanatory. Would make determining the end of the game easier.

As noted further up the thread, we didn't put in an automated checkmate system for a reason which still hasn't changed. There is already a stalemate checker in there, though.

Jonners said:

~Optional Clock~ I'd like to see a Chess Clock added as an optional choice when starting a match. When each player makes a move they would stop their clock, and start their opponents. This helps spot stallers in tournaments, and can be used to give each player a time limit (eg. 2 hours for 40 moves). Hand in hand with the clock is a timer. Setting the timer to a certain interval in seconds, like 60, would allow for speed chess.

Is this a way of measuring the time taken for each move or more of a countdown for each move that will have a forced concede if they don't move in time?

Jonners said:

BUGS

~Help Chess~ This needs to be updated to include the new syntax for starting a game (namely colour choice), and the new match history syntax.

Have you checked this file recently?

Jonners said:

~Stalemates~ There should be a way for opponents to mutually declare a stalemate. I currently have four games that are waiting for this option to be implemented before they can be resolved appropriately. 

Should be simple enough to add some sort of way to manually propose a stalemate and have the other person agree.

Jonners said:

~Promotion Choice~ Currently a pawn promoted will always be promoted to a Queen. Admittedly the large majority of promotion scenarios calls for a Queen instead of a Knight or other piece. But, there are the exceptions to the rule. There is the psychological factor of choosing a lesser piece, and proving your skill by winning without a Queen promotion.

I had a brief look at this when I made the last load of changes, and whilst it will require a bit of work to do, shouldn't be impossible.

Jonners said:

~Promotion Return~ Currently the game does not inform onlookers that a promotion has been made. Something similar to the following would be appropriate, with the name of the piece being promoted to changing if and when promotion choice becomes a reality.

"Having traversed the length of the board the [dark/light] pawn has been promoted to a Queen."

Sure.

Jonners said:

~Movement Syntax~ This has been changed to include long-notation but the syntax when seen by watchers is still confusing. This is a move from each side with the wording of the return as viewed by either player:

Move by light, as seen by light.

You order your pawn at K2 (E2) to move to K3 (E3).

Move by light, as seen by dark or people watching.

Jonners orders his pawn at K7 (D7) to move to K6 (D6).

Move by dark, as seen by dark.

You order your pawn at K2 (E2) to move to K3 (E3).

Move by dark, as seen by light or people watching.

Ourania orders her pawn at K7 (D7) to move to K6 (D6).

The short-notation (D7) needs to be set so it's the same from viewed from either side of the board. So light's Queen's Rook should be denoted as A1 absolutely so both sides of the board match rather than oppose each other as they do now; dark sees this same square as H8.

The long-form notation (QKt4) needs to be from the mover's perspective always. The thing to keep in mind is not what the other player should be seeing but what someone who is just watching and not playing is seeing. 

Also, for ease of being able to understand without having to look at the graphical representation of the board there should be a (light/dark) variable included in the movement return.

With all that in mind this is what I believe the finished return should look like for each player as seen by their opponent and the room:

Jonners (light) orders his pawn at K2 (E2) to move to K3 (E3).

Ourania (dark) orders her pawn at K2 (D7) to move to K3 (D6).

++

I can take another look at that, sure.

Keneanung

Jonners said:

~Optional Clock~ I'd like to see a Chess Clock added as an optional choice when starting a match. When each player makes a move they would stop their clock, and start their opponents. This helps spot stallers in tournaments, and can be used to give each player a time limit (eg. 2 hours for 40 moves). Hand in hand with the clock is a timer. Setting the timer to a certain interval in seconds, like 60, would allow for speed chess.

Is this a way of measuring the time taken for each move or more of a countdown for each move that will have a forced concede if they don't move in time?

Each of the players has a clock, which are set to a time (like 60 minutes). When it's White's turn, the clock of the white player ticks until a move is made where it stops and the black clock starts running. The first player who reaches 0 loses the game.
So it's a countdown for each player, how long their own moves combined may take.

ETA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess#Time_control has an explanation on it as well.