Third Black Wave: Electric Boogaloo

Tahquil · June 2019

When should we expect an event post about the end of this chapter?

Ictinus · June 2019

Tahquil said:

When should we expect an event post about the end of this chapter?

Likely in the next day or two.

Asmodron · June 2019

Skye said:

Are you seriously picking a fight with Jurixe of all people, what is wrong with you?

Edit: Sigh just saw Ictinus' post. As much as I would love to call out those jumping to attack like Beyonce fans the moment someone points out some obvious bias, I suppose I'll let it drop.

[Deleted User] · June 2019

Lmao.

Caelan · June 2019

Ictinus said:

Let's get this back on the topic please.

Which one? Tell us!?! There are so many!11on1

Pyori said:

Lmao.

Holy hell dude.. liike..HOLY. Hell....dude.

Tahquil · June 2019

Yo man, if you want to point out people controlled by bias I'll go get you a mirror.

Keorin · June 2019

My mood's a bit better now, so let me just try and make a slightly more constructive point here:

Ictinus said:

any misinterpretation or failure to communicate is ultimately in the hands of those receiving the advice.

I feel that this attitude is a bit unfair and unreasonable. Like, I'm quite serious that I'll take the blame for this, and that maybe I was just an idiot, along with everyone else who was online at the time, and anyone else in our shoes would have interpreted this properly. But I sincerely believe that this wasn't as clear as it seemed in context, or with the foreknowledge or hindsight of the situation that the admin had then and that the players had now.

Speaking personally, it was 9am, I had barely slept that night because I was trying to force myself to write the post announcing the opening ceremony I was trying to run, and I was doing my best to engage with it. I immediately sent Verrucht a message so that we could get more senate meetings going to try and get the policy changed, and I did my best to repeat what we had been told every chance I got - but I hadn't concluded what you seem to think I should have, all the same, and -none- of the players there did. I don't know, maybe we're all just idiots who failed, but I don't think that's an entirely fair conclusion to make

And that's the thing. I know that the admin are trying, and want this to be fun for us, and have certain lines they don't want to cross. But at the same time, a lot of us players are doing our best to take things and run with things, to make them fun for our factions. A game like this is cooperative storytelling, and we're doing our best to cooperate with the story as it's being told, but sometimes we're going to try our best and still come to the wrong conclusion, and it feels...a little dismissive, to have that written off as our failure and chalk every issue from then on to us interpreting one ct message wrong. No one's asking to have this spelled out completely, let alone to be told what to do. But if we're clearly misinterpreting things, clearly barking up the wrong tree, even while we dearly want to understand the situation right? In a case like that, the admin have all the power, and see all the cards, and are the only ones who can change that outcome. Players can be stupid, but I don't think that misunderstanding can -always- be chalked up to players, and even just repeating it for the less intelligent of us could help a lot.

And if nothing else, even if everyone online then was an idiot who just failed to communicate, and that's only on us, then I think it's a little unfair to make everyone else suffer from that. We're not always going to understand that ct messages are as important as they are (especially because Neraeos is a fairly opinionated god about issues both important and trivial), and it's pretty common to fail at getting things properly posted to newsboards and that sort of thing. If nothing else, I think other players deserve to have the chance to interpret or misinterpret things too, especially when it's something that might shape the approach of a three city coalition.

The admin have all the knowledge, can see how we're taking it, and have so many tools to spread it. I just don't think the outcome of a months long event should hinge -quite- so much on a small handful of players (some of us sleep deprived and burned out), properly interpreting single messages that are -meant- not to spell things out.

Penwize · June 2019

I feel like I should add that Ashtan had no such god CT telling us the Staff was the key to winning. We had nothing. No indicator at all, we just kind of decided to go for the Staff anyway because we wanted to. I had to make up my own reason based off of a conversation with Gattan'bahar, and I posted it to our news board so Ashtani felt like they could participate. Maybe if we knew what was at stake, more Ashtani would have joined in to help, or we would have pushed harder to get outside help. We had no idea this was at stake, and we're made to suffer for losing a game we didn't even know we were playing.

I suspect Eleusis had even less indication than we did.

I'm still a little upset that raiding the Underrealm was the answer when I specifically started that Hycanthus thread to do just that, but Hycanthus derailed it and I just assumed it was a flag from the admin to go a different direction because he was literally the only denizen I spoke with that was giving me something of actual substance.

Having grepped my logs and found the conversation where I discussed Tsol'teth god teleport with @Makarios, I'll chalk that one up to miscommunication. I failed to explain it was happening across dawn, just that it was god teleport instead of fulcrum. Mostly because, at the time, it looked suspiciously triggered on devour by one or two of the Tsol'teth and that was my primary gripe with it. I assumed (incorrectly I guess) that when I was told it was working as intended and they were just using the wrong flavour message, that the whole thing was working as intended. I think that's how everyone else who was in that conversation read it as well, because none of us gave it a second thought. And yes, we knew that dawn was supposed to be a weakness, but having no evidence it was working that way we just shrugged and assumed it was godmin doing godmin things.

Farrah · June 2019

Keorin said:

Farrah said:

Never fixate on the result too much OOCly. It's a game and factions don't get obliterated utterly very often. Most things players do don't in general have the kind of impact you seem to desire. It's the journey that's fun. If you didn't enjoy what you were doing, you should've tried to find a way to make it more enjoyable imo. If you did enjoy it, why does it matter what the result was?

In the last black wave, the tide was pushed back through the work of players, who were given the tools to solve the problem, and then the Tsol'teth were sealed in a battle we all took part in.

In the elemental event, the rampaging elementals and conduits were solved through the work of players, who gathered orbs, engaged with elemental factions, and got to take part in events to seal them.

In this event, we got a deus ex machinca, because apparently, after IG years of saying that their hands were tied, that they couldn't do anything to act against the Tsol'teth, they shouted some and the Tsol'teth packed up and went home. All anyone is saying is that this would have been a -lot- more satisfying if the coalition had gotten to make a difference here.

Let's be fair here: this isn't just about the results of the event; a lot of people have been expressing for weeks that this event was frustrating, that we felt railroaded, that endlessly fighting the tide sucked and had awful mechanics, that we felt that the choices we were being forced to make weren't fun, that the way the games were run was adding insult to injury, ect. Like, this thread and rants have been pointing out that things haven't been fun since nearly the start of this event; some of us have just been holding out hope that how things ended would justify some of the bad stuff along the way. Instead, this event ended how every other part of it has gone: with anyone who didn't side with the Tsol'teth doing a lot of work, seeing it go nowhere, watching as those who sided with the Tsol'teth getting attention and rewards, and watching the event progress through things that none of us had any power over.

As for "trying to find a way to make it more enjoyable", that's literally what I spent the entire damned event doing, just to have it fail or backfire on me in the end. Because apparently, being able to take a bigger part in this event like we were hoping for relied solely on me correctly interpreting one ct message at the end of a 20 minute conversation made when I was sleep deprived and trying to finish posts at 9 in the morning, and then running with that one message and getting it on every newsboard and preaching it to the world because it sure as heck couldn't have been hinted anywhere else in the game. Which is a bit more of a challenge when you're already trying your hardest to make everything more enjoyable.

This is all to say: I really am glad for everyone who did enjoy this event, who felt like it was rewarding and that all the steps from beginning to end were fun. But it's a little frustrating to hear so many people suggest that because -you- had fun, it's clearly everyone else's fault that we didn't. Different factions had a very different experience of this event, based on having very, very different parts to play in it. It wasn't all good or all bad, but I feel like it's worth mentioning the parts that were frustrating and not terribly fun, in the hopes that hey, maybe next time things could be a bit better.

I am not putting you down or anything. Quite the opposite.

I think you are grossly misunderstanding my post. I am saying if you all enjoyed the games, for example - hosting your own and all - there's no reason to let your mood be ruined by how the Tide was withdrawn. I think you're making this all out to be a greater "failure" than it is. The fact that the Staff could've done something is being blown way out of proportion. I am sure there are tons of things in other events that could have done something, but no admin says it on forums and so we never get to this point. It's just not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.

The Staff wasn't the ultimate win condition of the entire event. Mak said there were other things that might've worked too.

I think the biggest disconnect between this event and others is you expect to "triumph" over the Tsol'teth as if they're any other event villain that's meant to be destroyed by the end and that's it. But it's more like player v player conflict, because there are players on both sides. We could complain that it was unfair we were never given any indication during our Ashtan raid that taking sovereignty was an option, and thus didn't plan for that, and got told by many we "failed" because of the news saying Tsol'teth failed to take sovereignty. But I didn't like... get super depressed over that. I just shrugged and moved on. I wouldn't mind it being more clear, but it's happened to us too.

I feel like some members of the Coalition think they should have some special status where they are entitled to win more than the other side is, like the elemental event, where all players were on one side, and it was basically going to happen no matter what. The Tsol'teth as villains are very different because they have a god and can embrace death. They're more like a separate adventurer faction in some sense. I'm not saying they'll never be defeated (obviously, I have no idea what's in store in the future), but the level of "victory" you can generally get against them is at best like what you can do to Mhaldor or Ashtan - impermanent damage.

I don't think everything's as lopsided as you think in terms of ability to influence things. I mean, the very fact that winning the Staff would've resulted in a bigger "win" for you is something we don't get. It's not like we can just delete the Coalition with the Staff. Our biggest win condition was probably the sovereignty thing, and we were not at all aware of it or pushing for it.

Penwize · June 2019

Farrah said:

It's not like we can just delete the Coalition with the Staff.

No, but the Tsol'teth could (and did) just arbitrarily delete our fonts, which we still don't have several weeks later.

I think part of the miscommunication here is that you think we want to have won. That's not really the case, we just want to have uh ... not lost, particularly not lost a game we didn't even know we were playing, with as high a price tag on it as it has had.

I don't know about Eleusis or Cyrene, but we've had uh, one or two indications that we'll get a font back some nebulous time in the (possibly distant?) future, maybe, if things go right. Yeah that's flat terrible, when so much relies on having a font to do things with. We actually all originally thought this was just a precursor to the new war system, but no. No, three cities are left without the absolutely massive offense and defense mechanics that the fonts give.

A fair chunk of Ashtan's playerbase plays to raid (primarily, with other stuff as secondary). We can't raid. They won't play now.

Morsul · June 2019

Keorin said:

And if nothing else, even if everyone online then was an idiot who just failed to communicate, and that's only on us, then I think it's a little unfair to make everyone else suffer from that. We're not always going to understand that ct messages are as important as they are (especially because Neraeos is a fairly opinionated god about issues both important and trivial), and it's pretty common to fail at getting things properly posted to newsboards and that sort of thing. If nothing else, I think other players deserve to have the chance to interpret or misinterpret things too, especially when it's something that might shape the approach of a three city coalition.

Unfortunately that's how an organization works. The successes and failures of even just one member (in this case, all the online members at the time) affects the whole.

And I am unsure of what you want from Neraeos. He said his piece. The ball was on your court.

Keorin · June 2019

I don't think anyone is saying that we expected, or OOCly wanted, to tear apart Balan'ukia, or permakill all Tsol'teth or anything like that. What we wanted was -a- win, some kind of meaningful result from our actions after IRL months of literally constant effort fighting tide.

Hashan/Targossas both allied up, got to stop dealing with the tide early on, Hashan walks away with a new class, Targossas sounds like it's still getting some sort of reward, and has walked away from all this with both the staff and the effigy. Both cities got to fight with the Tsol'teth instead of against them, interact with them in fun and casual ways, and got to help with meaningful and successful strikes against big enemies (Mhaldor and Hashan).

The rest of us were saddled with roles we didn't choose, we were constantly stuck fighting tide, we struggled to get any sort of response or feel that we had allies. A lot of parts of this event just weren't fun, and seem to have been designed not to be - in no world is the constant spread of tide, which has pretty massive rp implications, actually fun to have to deal with; it was a months' long chore.

What we wanted was -any- win. Something where we could feel like all the work we put in had -any- result. Quite seriously, had we been allowed to find a way to actually push back the tide in a way that was temporarily lasting, or if we could've done -anything- to create any sort of setback for the Tsol'teth, that would have been enough. Instead, we did nothing but lose for basically the whole event, and then it ended. I think if we'd gotten -half- of what Targossas and Hashan ended up getting to do (damage fonts, get a class, win the staff, neat and fun interactions, an end to worries about the tide, whatever reward the Tsol'teth give Targ), we'd feel pretty alright with things.

Taryius · June 2019

Cyrene has gotten positives from this, you just need to focus on those, I know it can be hard when frustrated.

You've got the huge ability to remodel and revamp your city buildings and structure after the destruction,
a brand new river with an accompanying brand new river spirit
I imagine more interaction and meaning from the Muurn spirit
a new wizard denizen and anything that could come from that (even if he is a knock-off brand hack of a wizard shakefist)
new lake wyrms that I know nothing about so I can't comment more on them!
Whatever is in store for us cities that lack fonts.

Thats discounting all the RP reputation you can carry going forward, freeing Blu from the shadows, actually killing a Tsol'teth permanently dead, and never capitulating to any demands.

Asmodron · June 2019

Keorin said:

What we wanted was -any- win. Something where we could feel like all the work we put in had -any- result.

...I guess winning back your city, causing the suicide of a tsol'teth, freeing your captured guardian, gaining a new river -and- river spirit that is aligned to your city, gaining a Conclave member now living in your city, and the Coalition beating back the Tsol'teth from gaining their guardians with a finale of world wide messages of victory and cheering, just isnt something...

Jiraishin · June 2019

Keorin said:

I don't think anyone is saying that we expected, or OOCly wanted, to tear apart Balan'ukia, or permakill all Tsol'teth or anything like that. What we wanted was -a- win, some kind of meaningful result from our actions after IRL months of literally constant effort fighting tide.

Hashan/Targossas both allied up, got to stop dealing with the tide early on, Hashan walks away with a new class, Targossas sounds like it's still getting some sort of reward, and has walked away from all this with both the staff and the effigy. Both cities got to fight with the Tsol'teth instead of against them, interact with them in fun and casual ways, and got to help with meaningful and successful strikes against big enemies (Mhaldor and Hashan).

The rest of us were saddled with roles we didn't choose, we were constantly stuck fighting tide, we struggled to get any sort of response or feel that we had allies. A lot of parts of this event just weren't fun, and seem to have been designed not to be - in no world is the constant spread of tide, which has pretty massive rp implications, actually fun to have to deal with; it was a months' long chore.

What we wanted was -any- win. Something where we could feel like all the work we put in had -any- result. Quite seriously, had we been allowed to find a way to actually push back the tide in a way that was temporarily lasting, or if we could've done -anything- to create any sort of setback for the Tsol'teth, that would have been enough. Instead, we did nothing but lose for basically the whole event, and then it ended. I think if we'd gotten -half- of what Targossas and Hashan ended up getting to do (damage fonts, get a class, win the staff, neat and fun interactions, an end to worries about the tide, whatever reward the Tsol'teth give Targ), we'd feel pretty alright with things.

Targ got access to the fortresses plus Jaru and New Hope being free from Tide, and that's it. The tsol'teth have been pretty clear that nothing else is forthcoming. Staff and effigy weren't gifts and Targ winning them wasn't aided whatsoever by the tsol'teth.

That's all pretty beside the point, though. Taryius has got it right.

Keorin · June 2019

When you take back your city, just to discover that "hey, it's a mass graveyard where everyone is dead, look how much you completely failed to protect your home and anyone in it," that doesn't come off feeling much like any sort of victory. Like, it's an -incredibly- phyrric win, by any consideration, especially since it's pretty easy to point out that we could have just waited for the Tsol'teth to leave on their own, since apparently the gods can just snap their fingers and do that. If anything, how the tide resolved has only reinforced that attacking to take back the city was stupid, since it got more people killed, saved no one, and would have gotten resolved better if we'd sat on our asses.

You are also doing quite a lot to assume that things won't just go back to the status quo in Cyrene, which, I can tell you now, is what most of the people in power are gunning for.

Again, the frustrating thing isn't so much the results, as how little agency it feels like we had throughout. If any of our efforts to gather allies, or build a war camp, or -anything- had happened during the resistance times, I think we'd feel a whole lot different right now. Instead, it feels like we got ignored for weeks while the Tsol'teth were busy hanging out in Targ, and then one day Hycanthus tells us when we're going to take back the city and what the plan is, and so we show up and do it.

Asmodron · June 2019

Keorin said:

When you take back your city, just to discover that "hey, it's a mass graveyard where everyone is dead, look how much you completely failed to protect your home and anyone in it," that doesn't come off feeling much like any sort of victory. Like, it's an -incredibly- phyrric win, by any consideration, especially since it's pretty easy to point out that we could have just waited for the Tsol'teth to leave on their own, since apparently the gods can just snap their fingers and do that. If anything, how the tide resolved has only reinforced that attacking to take back the city was stupid, since it got more people killed, saved no one, and would have gotten resolved better if we'd sat on our asses.

You are also doing quite a lot to assume that things won't just go back to the status quo in Cyrene, which, I can tell you now, is what most of the people in power are gunning for.

Again, the frustrating thing isn't so much the results, as how little agency it feels like we had throughout. If any of our efforts to gather allies, or build a war camp, or -anything- had happened during the resistance times, I think we'd feel a whole lot different right now. Instead, it feels like we got ignored for weeks while the Tsol'teth were busy hanging out in Targ, and then one day Hycanthus tells us when we're going to take back the city and what the plan is, and so we show up and do it.

It has been explained why Cyrene was targetted, which I admit I dont think any of us saw coming but it further defines how important player actions can be. I do feel bad for them getting hit that hard though.

In truth the Gods could always get involved but there is an agreement between them. If one of them gets directly involved in mortal affairs then others will. I consider the fact that at the end they gave Tlalaiad an ultimatum as a sign that things got pretty dire and they didnt care anymore. That's another thing a god needs to worry about: The other gods allying against them (See Sartan).

I honestly did consider why the resistance did not build a war camp in Caer at the time, but definitely nothing against you guys doing so now to siege Balan'ukia and Balan'maal.

(As for Cyrene politics itself, I cant comment there)

Torrent · June 2019

Penwize said:

I feel like I should add that Ashtan had no such god CT telling us the Staff was the key to winning. We had nothing. No indicator at all, we just kind of decided to go for the Staff anyway because we wanted to. I had to make up my own reason based off of a conversation with Gattan'bahar, and I posted it to our news board so Ashtani felt like they could participate. Maybe if we knew what was at stake, more Ashtani would have joined in to help, or we would have pushed harder to get outside help. We had no idea this was at stake, and we're made to suffer for losing a game we didn't even know we were playing.

I suspect Eleusis had even less indication than we did.

Yeah really no indication at all, wasn't entirely sure which direction to go with this and with Tesha giving the staff to the Tsol'teth we weren't even sure that the Staff would be effective at all to the Tsol'teth so it was just decided to not particpate in them. Plus we have the whole Hashan war thing going on so we had other things to focus on, but not having a Patron this kinda just happens with us and we have accepted that. Shoot blindly in the dark enough times you will hit something, may not be what you want, but it would be something!

Rangor · June 2019

Gods are scared of the tsol'teth and have very little regard for what happens to the cities and houses they patron is what i got from this event. Like cyrene gets wrecked and its patrons does... Nothing?

The world is invaded by tide and the gods sit by silently and wait for what?

Is tlailaidadadalaia so dangerous? 😛

Melodie · June 2019

You know, the above does bring about a good point and inspires a question:

We know from the Bal'met era that generally, Patrons and a city's God(s) are meant to protect the city from its ultimate destruction. Shallam sank, in particular, because all of its Gods had abandoned it utterly, whereas Patrons of other cities (Babel and Ashtan stand out here from the same time period) step in during decisive moments. The Orymyrr had also 'raised' their own God, yet still, things went as it did.

I understand that Cyrene was occupied rather than outright destroyed, but it still lost a great deal (90%, it seems!) of its population, and its "stronger" citizens were evicted for the better part of an IC year, as well as the most populous section of the city was completely trashed. Moreover there were no guarantees they'd get it back, just obviously, they worked their tush off to make it happen.

Yet, no God stood up for Cyrene, and Tlalaiad existing doesn't seem like a reason not to, see: Bal'met (even if Bal'met didn't last the same amount of time, as far as I can understand canonically, there is little to no difference between the two).

What precisely made this different that allowed what happened to Cyrene to happen? More precisely I guess, why did none of their Patrons step in this time?

[Deleted User] · June 2019

Melodie said:

What precisely made this different that allowed what happened to Cyrene to happen? More precisely I guess, why did none of their Patrons step in this time?

Prolly because, as Neraeos said, their god specifically wasn't doing anything 'bad' so to speak. Whereas Bal'met was pretty actively trying to kill all of the Pantheon himself. Only when they didn't call off the Tide after succeeding their goals, did Neraeos say something. Babel claims Ashtan specifically as his, so of course he's going to step in when the Dalamyrr try to sink it (this was also pre-Court)

Melodie · June 2019

Bal'met was trying to kill Gods, sure, but also there were outright trying to destroy cities, too. Like I mentioned above, there was a particular moment where they tried to wreck the hell out of Ashtan with a similar sort of army as they had with Shallam, but Babel stepped up and noped them (maybe just the undead dragon? vague memories are vague) from achieving key points of their goal to allow it.

It's two different sets of instances. Killing the Gods was obviously very bad, but the cities bit was also happening apart from that, and was protected from in at least one instance that I'm aware of/remember.

Morsul · June 2019

Keorin said:

You are also doing quite a lot to assume that things won't just go back to the status quo in Cyrene, which, I can tell you now, is what most of the people in power are gunning for.

This has been touched on before: sounds like a problem with Cyrene, its leaders, and/or its players. None of it is the pantheon's responsibility; just as with the CT message of Neraeos, if the players want to roll that way, roll that way they shall.

[Deleted User] · June 2019

Bal'met wasn't trying to destroy the cities. His followers were, and I'm pretty sure that's where the line is drawn. The difference with Babel is, like I said, he claimed the city as his, and viewed it as them trying to destroy his property.

It was a dala'myrr that he pitted mid-air, jsyk, when it went barreling towards the palace.

A pair of Dala'myrr bore down upon the palace upon its hilltop at the heart of Ashtan, soaring languidly through the air towards their goal. Moments from the destruction of the palace, a tall, robed figure stepped from the air behind them. His voice cold and commanding, Babel shouted simply, "Take them." A great, sucking void, like the Pit of Golgotha but much, much larger, opened in the air, and the Dala'myrr were dragged helplessly within. Babel nodded and turned, vanishing, while the creatures suffered a slow, agonising death deep within the Pit.

Morsul · June 2019

I think a key difference is that the tsol'teth had a patron that was accepted by the Pantheon as an equal (Tlalaiad), while the ormyrr did not. Bal'met was seen as an "other enemy", but Tlalaiad was not. Tsol'teth versus Cyrene was no different from Mhaldor versus Targossas, in this case: patroned organizations at war with each other.

Skye · June 2019

Pyori said:

Bal'met wasn't trying to destroy the cities. His followers were, and I'm pretty sure that's where the line is drawn. The difference with Babel is, like I said, he claimed the city as his, and viewed it as them trying to destroy his property.

It was a dala'myrr that he pitted mid-air, jsyk, when it went barreling towards the palace.

A pair of Dala'myrr bore down upon the palace upon its hilltop at the heart of Ashtan, soaring languidly through the air towards their goal. Moments from the destruction of the palace, a tall, robed figure stepped from the air behind them. His voice cold and commanding, Babel shouted simply, "Take them." A great, sucking void, like the Pit of Golgotha but much, much larger, opened in the air, and the Dala'myrr were dragged helplessly within. Babel nodded and turned, vanishing, while the creatures suffered a slow, agonising death deep within the Pit.

uggggh so sexy. Sorry it just had to be said.

Melodie · June 2019

Pyori said:

Bal'met wasn't trying to destroy the cities. His followers were, and I'm pretty sure that's where the line is drawn. The difference with Babel is, like I said, he claimed the city as his, and viewed it as them trying to destroy his property.

It was a dala'myrr that he pitted mid-air, jsyk, when it went barreling towards the palace.

A pair of Dala'myrr bore down upon the palace upon its hilltop at the heart of Ashtan, soaring languidly through the air towards their goal. Moments from the destruction of the palace, a tall, robed figure stepped from the air behind them. His voice cold and commanding, Babel shouted simply, "Take them." A great, sucking void, like the Pit of Golgotha but much, much larger, opened in the air, and the Dala'myrr were dragged helplessly within. Babel nodded and turned, vanishing, while the creatures suffered a slow, agonising death deep within the Pit.

Right, the followers of Tlalaiad were also trying to make an example of, and to a degree destroy (to rebuild into their liking) Cyrene. It seems pretty similar to me, even with some differences included.

Morsul said:

I think a key difference is that the tsol'teth had a patron that was accepted by the Pantheon as an equal (Tlalaiad), while the ormyrr did not. Bal'met was seen as an "other enemy", but Tlalaiad was not. Tsol'teth versus Cyrene was no different from Mhaldor versus Targossas, in this case: patroned organizations at war with each other.

To my recollection, Bal'met was a God just as much as Tlalaiad is. The key difference for his ruination was that he was also basically eating all the Pantheon, too, so he had to be dealt with directly by the Gods, whereas Tlalaiad is sorta-kinda co-existing. It's still two different sets of circumstances, though. The followers, apart from their God, were trying to take over/destroy cities, as the Tsol'teth were. Not the Gods, in either case (again, to my understanding).

Maybe I'm just viewing this weirdly at 4am on a Sunday night.

Edit: Also yeah, the messages were freaking amazing, it's why I still half-remember it years and years later despite not having looked at any of it directly in a few years now.

[Deleted User] · June 2019

Skye said:

uggggh so sexy. Sorry it just had to be said.

This bit is better. Spoilered for length.

[spoiler]

Fighting ferociously to the site where Vastar lay wounded, Aegis heroically dragged the Skylord back toward the others, deflecting attacks with his sword. His keen eyes surveyed the battlefield, where a dark shadow was approaching the Lord of Valour from behind.

"Pentharian!" he shouted as Bal'met suddenly appeared. "Behind You!"

In a blur of motion, Bal'met drove his arm through the Lord of Valour's armour, as easily as cutting through soft wax. Pentharian howled in pain, releasing his grip upon the Sword of Dunamis, but Bal'met quickly grasps the hilt, withdrawing it through Pentharian's back in a savage motion that shattered the god's breastplate.

As the blade passed through the Lord of Valour, it burned with holy flame, setting the skies afire with blinding light. Outraged, Bal'met hurled the sword away, and Pentharian fell to the ground. "The sword!" he cried out in agony. "Tarah... you must..."

Streaking across the firmament as Pentharian perished was a trail of cerulean light, and the tear-streaked face of Tarah could be seen racing eastward, away from the Garden of the Gods, cradling the blazing Sword of Dunamis in her arms. Unleashing a terrifying roar, the Sycaerunax took off after the fleeing goddess, his monstrous form quickly closing in on her lead.

An immense shadow darkened the Shamtota Hills as Sycaerunax at last caught up with Tarah. Opening wide his fetid maw, the dragon stretched forward and snapped his jaws around her, and a mask of pain crossed her features. With her final strength Tarah hurled the Sword of Dunamis toward Shallam, where it disappeared into the gleaming city, before she was devoured by the Father of Dragons. [/spoiler]

Asmodron · June 2019

Bal'met and Sartan declared war on the Pantheon and Achaea, to claim it as their own. The general agreement of the Gods is to not directly interfere with mortal affairs. Bal'met was also an outside invader and had indeed no care for that agreement. Shallam was at the mercy of Bal'met and his legion of dala'myrr, because frankly no gods were around (that were willing) to defend it. In Ashtan and Mhaldor's case, there were their patrons and they stepped in because it was all out war at that point between the gods.

The Tsol'teth, as insanely powerful as they are, are still mortal and thus the Gods did not break the pact, unless Tlalaiad had declared war upon them Pantheon or had directly interfered with the war.

During the end of the conflict, the majority of the Pantheon had clearly gotten sick of how much carnage Tlalaiad's forces had done and that the Tide was bordering on their own sacred areas. They gave Tlalaiad a warning and He pulled out.

Skye · June 2019

I think the only thing kinda iffy about this is that, Tlalaiad was basically created from stolen god essence, not just any god but one who was deliberately murdered for the sake of it. And yet (to my memory) the Pantheon did nothing to punish the dangerous presumption and terrible precedent of a mortal race (and yes they are mortal no matter how OP they are) conspiring to assassinate a God. Slith pulled the trigger, but the Tsol'teth put the gun in his hand.

That said, there's a lot of precedence of Gods coming into being after absorbing (or reconstituting) another God's power whether by accident (Neroes) or on purpose (Sartan). As it is, by all accounts, the pantheon seems to treat Tlalaiad like the weird kid. Y'know the one who smells funny cause his mom can't afford to buy Tide (snickersnicker).

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