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Comments
- Limb Counter - Fracture Relapsing -
"Honestly, I just love that it counts limbs." - Mizik Corten
There's only a "total lack of character / class identity" if you pick up a second class, and even then only if you allow it to completely change the way your character acts - especially if they acted completely differently based on what class they currently were. Ultimately, your character might be influenced by the class they chose, but they should still be them even if they change away from that class.
My character was heavily influenced by being a Paladin - though much more by the organisations being a Paladin meant he was a part of than the class itself - but all of those things don't just disappear because I picked up Blademaster too.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
At least next time another class catches my eye, it shouldn't be as rough as a new alt.
Site: https://github.com/trevize-achaea/scripts/releases
Thread: http://forums.achaea.com/discussion/4064/trevizes-scripts
Latest update: 9/26/2015 better character name handling in GoldTracker, separation of script and settings, addition of gold report and gold distribute aliases.
See? This man knows how to fully appreciate multiclass.
Bard will be my fourth class, just need to bash up to level 110 (380%), then buy however many credits I still need after getting there.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."
Edit: Infernal/Bard? Enhance my cocky prettyboy persona by making the ladies swoon with singing and music.
The first is the requisite THANK YOU to @Tecton and @Sarapis and whoever else worked endlessly behind the scenes for this massive change to Achaea. The fact that people immediately complain about being given more of something is beyond me. People, you didn't have anything taken away, you had more handed to you! Show a little gratitude and less attitude!
Every IRE that has introduced multi-classing does it a little differently. Not at all surprising, as that's the case with most things IRE does. That said, I do wholeheartedly agree that if various classes share an entire skill (Devotion, Chivalry, Tarot, Weaponmastery, Groves, Metamorphosis, Necromancy), it is a massive downer to have to re-learn it from scratch, especially with the increase in lesson cost per class. It would be phenomenal (and I'm going out on a limb to say wildly rejoiced) if these shared skills did not start over at 0% inept. Making them swap over starting somewhere between Virtuoso and Mythical would be extremely gracious, and far less frustrating. Of course, I don't think anyone would balk if these shared skills simply transferred over at Transcendent... but I'm trying for a reasonable middle ground between continuing to treat IRE's player base well, and IRE being a business not just a game.
I'm all for multi-classing requiring levels, or payment. Encouraging players to have goals to get to something for "free" (let's not argue semantics over paying for the lessons in the class itself right here) or otherwise having to pay for instant gratification doesn't seem all that far fetched. Besides, if you have the money to dish out for class skills, the thought is probably that you have the money to dish out for the class itself by getting it prematurely. Also, most cities seem to have rewards for getting to Dragon these days so... get to Dragon, get an ADDITIONAL end game class by just getting to Dragon, get City rewards, possibly House rewards, and the option to get another class. The problem is...?
Along that line of thought, I am surprised that the cost of the additional classes went up, and the time for switching classes went down so drastically for the artifacts. I mean, the first artifact cutting the time in half for 350 credits seemed entirely reasonable to me, as did the others. This is probably not a popular sentiment but it is an honest one.
The last thing that was of note to me was the fact that player traits are going to be tied in per class, and yet the option to change your racial spec for each class is not an option. If the thought was that racial traits are permissible as changes, and necessary, then I'm missing the notion that brought about the opinion that racial specs aren't. If there is any way that being able to choose a racial spec for each class could be added it would be fantastic. And anyhow, if you ever wanted to reincarnate by doing it that way, you'd have to buy a dagger of reincarnation for each class if you wanted to reincarnate for more than one of them. It's really a win-win situation.
If you can use one word to sum up your character, whether it be "hero" or "Monk", what you have isn't so much a character, but a caricature. You guys are some creative people. I'm positive you'll manage it just fine.
Those were changed, but only because they didn't go in according to plan. In the case of the slot costs, it just got forgotten, and defaulted to using the 100 credits that tradeskills cost (note that miniskills cost somewhere in the range of 40% of a skill, and that the slot costs are scaled similarly). Not sure what happened in the case of the arties, but the advantages they give now are what we agreed on.
Ugh, just realised I'm going to have to mess around with decaying armour now. Multiclass is the worst thing ever.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
(Legitimately no snark, I just saw an opportunity and I had to. :P)
And for all the folks who can't see an issue, or understand why people may dislike the aspects of the system, that's fine. Just be adult enough to realize that other people don't have to be wrong for you to be right. I love that it's added, and I quite respect the amount of time put into it. I just feel like it is slightly too gated and priced for what all it actually gives.
It's nice to have the option, but I think I'll sit it out a while more while they iron out any other bugs and maybe some kind soul implements support for it on svof >_>
I guess I'm just 'entitled'.
Whether you or I agree notwithstanding (I'm pretty ambivalent about the pricing - it's relatively high, but I also like that a high price means not everyone will have seven different classes), I don't see anything wrong with a customer commenting to say that a new offering seems overpriced to them.
...
Regarding RP, I continue to fail to understand why everyone continues to act as though the only possibilities are that you completely and totally restrict your RP to class RP and that's one-dimensional and bad or class doesn't inform RP at all. Virtually every character has always fallen somewhere in the middle. Was Amunet more than just an occultist? Of course. Was being an occultist a huge part of Amunet's RP? Of course. That's true of almost every memorable character, and the vast majority of less-memorable characters too - some degree of their roleplaying was informed by their class, just like some degree of your real-life character and narrative is informed by what you do. A character whose only defining quality is that they're a knight is boring, but a character who performs all of the actions as a knight, fights like a knight, rides like a knight, has a falcon like a knight, and doesn't take that into account at all is equally weird.
And suggesting that players are creative and can figure it out is all well and good for the players who care to figure it out, but a lot of players obviously won't. One of the benefits of the way Achaea is structured is that it's easy to manage a sort of half-assed RP that doesn't intrude on the people who care more about roleplaying. So you can play the game even if RP doesn't interest you at all (which is totally fine) and you largely don't intrude on people who do care about RP and immersion (which is also totally fine). Even if you didn't roleplay much at all, there was nothing odd about someone who was an alchemist - that's just a thing in the world - so there's no roleplaying required to retain immersion, you don't have to come up with any real explanation for what being an alchemist means or how that happened. But a jester/alchemist is at least a little bit odd. When you see that person, you're going to wonder what's up with that. And, for many players, the answer will be that they don't really care about RP, so they don't have an answer. That's at least a minor problem, and the creativity of players who do care doesn't ameliorate it.
That minimum, inherent RP is the thing that I'm going to miss to some degree. Not the characters who come up with explanations and roleplay signs that they're "both classes at once" (like many, including me, already did for our previous classes after changing classes), but the effect of all the people who won't.
And I wouldn't brush aside stereotypical RP as quickly either. There's probably something to be said for being able to fall back on relatively simple class-based RP when necessary, for those people who are largely uninterested in RP. If you don't care much about RP, but some interaction essentially demands it and you don't want to break someone else's immersion, it's easy to just play the stereotypical knight. Is it super compelling and an interesting character? No, but you don't care - you're not interested in RP. You don't have that to fall back on in the same way when you play an alchemist/jester - there is no easy, stereotypical alchemist/jester concept for people uninterested in RP to fall back on when they need to roleplay.
But I don't think either of those are particularly nasty issues. There's nothing too wrong with being a jester/alchemist, even if you don't personally worry about what that means RP-wise. What's a lot weirder and harder to overlook is the strange way you can only be one at a time and you mechanically, instantly swap between them with absolutely no IC justification. I can buy that someone can be an alchemist and a jester. I could suspend disbelief when people occasionally swapped classes and "forgot" all of their skills and learned a totally new profession in a few "days" or a "month". But I find it a lot harder to suspend disbelief when someone says "Give me five minutes so I can swap to Runewarden" or "Sorry, I can't do your runes, I'm sentinel right now and I can't swap for another two hours". And those are going to come up a lot more often than the old occasional "I'm changing to Runewarden today". And it seems like it would be so easy to add just a modicum of IC justification, just a single tweaked message or something, that I really just fundamentally don't understand why there's such an insistence that it shouldn't be done because it "isn't needed". What's the downside?
None of this is catastrophic or anything, and I don't have any sort of dire, fundamental problem with multiclass, but I also don't like this thing where everyone is pretending like there are no downsides and anyone who expresses any sort of concern is just hysterical and on some sort of seemingly personal crusade against Matt and co. or something.
I think this could have been done better, and I think a very small tweak would go a long way to helping, and some people think the pricing is off - none of those seem like unreasonable opinions to voice or seem worthy of feigned incredulity that anyone would complain about anything or suggestions that anyone is entitled or anything like that.
I think that's my final novel for a while.
I would wait for Tecton to confirm, but as far as I can tell it should work like this: When you quit your primary class, your primary class slot is now empty. You get back 50% of the lessons spent on your primary class (so 1738 per Trans skill). Your second class stays as your second class.
If you gain another class, it fills the first empty slot it finds (your primary slot), and you learn with the primary slot modifier (100%).
That's the same way tradeskills work, if I'm not mistaken.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
I love/hate you guys...