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Comments
I still think that there seems to be an attitude of entitlement to the argument, but I can totally see and respect where it comes from. I personally believe that the actions of a character should have meaningful consequences, positive or negative. The idea that you can get boosts from truefavours for IC things, but shouldn't be able to lose skills from the rare tdf, makes no sense to me. Similarly, the idea that enjoying PK should make you immune to temporary consequences that generally dont occur without good reason also baffles me.
(seriously though, do Lucrescent nuts negate the penalty from TDFs?)
But one of the things that makes Achaea feel like a truly immersive RPG is that the RP is so prevalent. Your original post stated that you enjoy PK, and that a large portion of the playerbase enjoys PK, perhaps even to the point where PK, and not RP, is what keeps them in the game. Totally fair. I'll concede that much.
Where we disagree is the notion that because this aforementioned group prefers PK, which is negatively impacted by these rare RP-borne punishments, the admins should re-work this aspect of RP-borne punishments such as TDFs. By the logic you state, this should probably also go for the other punishments that also nerf a combatant.
I disagree with this idea for a few reasons. One, the aforementioned 'actions should have consequences,' is something I know we both agree on in general. I think this is one of the instances where it applies - you are asking the admins to essentially render a very rare form of punishment utterly toothless, to the point where it's not really a punishment so much as flavor text. You said "There's no entitlement here beyond simply wanting to be able to enjoy what we like about the game even when being punished," and I very much disagree with the sentiment behind it. You can say it's not entitled, but you're going on to say that people who play the game for PK should get the administration to remove rare consequences from IC actions. That's like, the definition of entitlement in the context of Achaea; the idea that one person or group should get a free pass from playing things their way. It's the argument Kakotas and many others used as to why Deacon shouldn't exist, and I give it as much credence now as I did in those cases.
Two, the fact remains that PKers can enjoy benefits from the inverse - and as well they should. I don't much believe in this notion of "I should be able to benefit in PK/life/whatever from a TF earned for IC reasons, but I should not be hit with a penalty in PK/life/whatever from a TDF earned for IC reasons." If you're willing to accept the bonuses, then be willing to accept the potential consequences, too; it is, and should be, a two way street if we're both going to accept the idea that there should be tangible, meaningful consequences to actions just as there should be tangible, meaningful consequences to others.
Finally, TDFs are so exceedingly rare that the whole trying to get the admins to change it feels like asking for stitches and vicodin because we pricked our finger. They don't happen terribly often, and 99% of them seem to only occur in a situation where it's really warranted. It's possible that that's just my perception, but with as willing as people are to whine about perceived injustice, I feel like we would be hearing about this a lot more often if it was being abused or happening in instances where people didn't absolutely have it coming.
tl;dr - it's way past bedtime.
- With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
- (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
- Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
- Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
I'm just going to point out, again, that this lose of skills isn't just part of the ultra-rare TRUE DISFAVOUR.
Skill loss kicks in at STRONG DISFAVOUR so if a God decides to punish a person with anything more than a simple DISFAVOUR the person will be affected by skill loss.
To quote myself : Maybe people want to keep the skill lose then maybe bump that up to the top Strong Disfavour slot and slide everything down one?
That gives the God 4 levels of ire to bestow on a person before the hit the skill loss level. Skill lose arguably has the most affect on how a person can play.
Like I've said already, the -2 CON, -1 other stats, and +15% damage that comes with a TDF are perfectly valid. Those make fighting difficult but possible, just like fighting someone with a TF is difficult but possible. The skill hits, though, remove your ability to play the game, if you play the game to fight. Just a bad aspect of the favour system that affect some players vastly more than others.
Please stop calling it entitlement. I'm sitting on 8 more days still (once it ticks over whenever today). I can't snipe, can't behead, can't phase, can't hold breath, can't curseward, no efficiency, half of vision is missing, can't reliable use any bites in a fight(arguably a third of my skills are worthless without trans secretion), no higher hypno abilities, and numerous other things. I have a whopping 9 con, and am only still remotely viable because I have spent a lot of cash over the past ten years. I took it like a champ and sat on clouds last night for over two hours. -1- Person came to pick a fight, and it was more of a joking friendly fight than anything. Dude thought he could get the jump on me and failed. I went ahead and truelocked him, despite my handicap and the fact I consider him my combat equal, and had to spend far too much time figuring out how I could kill him still. I would have liked something that was a little for fun for everyone, other than me fighting at half mast for a week and a half, but that doesn't make me entitled. Entitlement would be me sitting on my thumbs waiting for this to blow over so I can actually do something again. Not sure what else you expect me to do.
The fact that this isn't in rants says a lot about my willingness to suck it up, despite the fact that I as a player think it's kinda crummy.
Edit: sorry, read some examples on a few previous pages. Please ignore.
Edit 2: Egads, what the hell happened to Targossas? You leave for a month and everything gets rekt.
Favours, starting at strong, also increase your skill rank and gives you abilities that you wouldn't normally have if you weren't lucky enough to tri-trans or omni-trans your skills or don't have the funding for it OOCly.
I know I'm going to get yelled at, simply because "that's not what we're talking about, scrub," but I just wanted to point it out since nobody else has, yet. It would make sense that disfavours does the exact opposite of what favours do.
/rant
Honestly, I understand your frustrations with TDFs impacting your PvP gameplay, but you can totally find other things to do. I guarantee that none of you have explored every single alternative to PvP during your (relatively) short TDFs.
And this^
With that said, perhaps this discussion should get moved to Golden Dais if people have suggestions on how to change it if they are unhappy with this system? It honestly doesn't bother me, it is such a rare occurrence. In an RP sense, when it is heard about realms wide, it's one of those "oh shit" reminders on what can happen when you go and make big decisions like that.
Also, so many opinions here on how someone else should be reacting or what one could be doing. Sometimes the punishment just doesn't fit the crime, or in these cases, the length of the punishment. And for those affected, expressing discontent hardly means they aren't trying to make the best of the situation. Pretty sure I have seen comments to the contrary, as well as witnessed as much.
And yes there are opinions on what one could be doing? I don't see anything wrong with giving options to those who can't seem to find options themselves.
Change Administrative TDFs from regular Divine TDFs
- Admin TDFs get to change the strength and area of their TDF to suit the punishment/crime
- Divine TDFs no longer lower skill levels, but do something such as lower experience gain and increase experience loss
Added way to make TFs cool with stupid place holder abilities that don't really make sense
Remove skill gain from TFs and replace with a special benefit that changes with each Divine
- Sartan (hahahahahahaha) = ability to instantly resurrect yourself once
- Aurora = Bloodswear bonus is better
- Lupus = mobs you are offer are worth more essence