Simple Combat Classes?

Ilanore · February 2014

Hello, i'm a pretty bad Achaea player and I was wondering what classes are easier(or don't require a ton of lessons to be good at) are? Any advice is much appreciated!

Xith · February 2014

Sylvan and Magi and Runewarden.
Possibly monk depending on how you look at it.

Kenway · February 2014

Xith said:

Sylvan and Magi and Runewarden. Possibly monk depending on how you look at it.

Runie's easy as all hell when you're in lower tier combat or in group, yes. You can pretty much just plow through anyone with damage alone and once you get DSBs down you're untouchable.
That said at higher levels, in 1v1, people start figuring out the workarounds and it becomes a lot more difficult. The difficulty curve is more closely akin to a wall and takes a lot of work to climb.

Unless I just really suck. Any other Runie can feel free to tell me I'm way off here.

Shecks · February 2014

Ilanore said:

Hello, i'm a pretty bad Achaea player and I was wondering what classes are easier(or don't require a ton of lessons to be good at) are? Any advice is much appreciated!

Monk is the easiest class in the game, and requires only one skillset to kill virtually anyone who doesn't have 50 mules with them at all times, assuming you can cure, and have a shield tattoo with lots of uses left. With a second skillset (Kaido), you will also dominate raids, and seal the deal on 1v1 combat by getting Kai Enfeeble, Kai Choke, and Deliverance, three of the top 10 most abused abilities in the game, as well as Transmute. You'll be almost entirely immune to damage deaths with Vitality, Transmute, Dodging, Numbness, and Kai Heal, and will be immune to venom locks if you learn to properly use Fitness. (Pretty sure monks only die to zap, disconnection, or player error).

Magi is super easy too, but will require that you either:

A) Never use retardation, and never kill anyone, or

Use retardation, which requires a lot of practice and skill, and kill pretty much everyone. (not an option for beginners)

C) Get a Skype buddy with a lupine bow and trigger insta-kills together. (not an option if you have self-respect)

Sylvan is mind-bogglingly easy, as is sentinel, but aren't as gimmicky as the two above, so you'll actually have to use several aliases to win, instead of one. Might be good a second or third class.

Runewarden is actually a little tricky to master (and is said to require a lot of artefacts), but you'll get lots of easy kills on people who don't know how to avoid damage stacking and lunge/engage. If you're new to the game, one of the knight classes is a great place to start, since it requires less investment to be combat / bashing equipped, and is both powerful and pretty easy to learn.

Druid is pretty great, as it offers a ton of utility and combat power, without requiring much combat experience, but doesn't currently hold much in high-end combat (not something to worry about for your first class). You'll also have the benefit of being Eleusian, which means you'll have a community of people willing to help you get started (moreso than elsewhere).

Blademaster is interesting, simple, decent, offensively, and is super tough to kill. However, it's pretty terrible for beginners, at is appears to require completing all three class skillsets to really kill anyone, and requires a lot of combat experience, as your primary method of not dying is evading out of dangerous combat situations (thus, you have to recognize when to do so).

Avoid Apostate, Shaman, Bard, Jester. No class is "bad" to start out as, but these are classes where you're going to be either great at combat, or absolutely worthless.

Serpent is a wild card, as it is by far the most complex class in the game. However, for a new player, it offers a ton of great utilities (notably: phase, wormholes, dash, evade), and if nothing else, you have snipe. Serpents also have a lot of help coming up, as it's one of the more popular classes, and therefore tends to have pretty active houses. Just don't expect to kill anyone or bash anything bigger than a pixie until you cash in for some survival artefacts - serpent is insanely weak, defensively, against all forms of damage.

Shecks · February 2014

Oh look, @Jovolo doesn't agree! He probably would if he read it though, so don't take that for more than it is... (an automated script that randomly chooses between WTF and Disagree every time I post.) I'm sure he feels that Magi is an immensely complex class, or that serpent is super tanky (it has Scales, for the love of God... -_-). Or he's probably tired of hearing people accurately describe monk as being lame and easy as it truly is.

Since I've played competitively in all but the two new classes, and Jovolo has played midbie in about 2-3 (being generous here), I think it's fair for me to say that I know a little about what I'm talking about, and your "disagree" is only due to the fact that there is no "I hate you" option to click on.

Jovolo · February 2014

Shecks said:

Ilanore said:

Hello, i'm a pretty bad Achaea player and I was wondering what classes are easier(or don't require a ton of lessons to be good at) are? Any advice is much appreciated!

Monk is the easiest class in the game, and requires only one skillset to kill virtually anyone who doesn't have 50 mules with them at all times, assuming you can cure, and have a shield tattoo with lots of uses left. With a second skillset (Kaido), you will also dominate raids, and seal the deal on 1v1 combat by getting Kai Enfeeble, Kai Choke, and Deliverance, three of the top 10 most abused abilities in the game, as well as Transmute. You'll be almost entirely immune to damage deaths with Vitality, Transmute, Dodging, Numbness, and Kai Heal, and will be immune to venom locks if you learn to properly use Fitness. (Pretty sure monks only die to zap, disconnection, or player error).

You're wrong. Monk is not the easiest class in the game, this is only the case when the Monk has several 1000's of credits put into artifacts. I assume this is not going to be the case - In fact, Monk is notoriously difficult even at mid-tier with only single-trans, as you absolutely rely on Kaido to survive against almost all classes.

Magi is super easy too, but will require that you either:
A) Never use retardation, and never kill anyone, or
Use retardation, which requires a lot of practice and skill, and kill pretty much everyone.
C) Get a Skype buddy with a lupine bow and trigger insta-kills together.

Magi is not "easy". Your point B pretty much completely contradicts that statement - it requires a lot of practise and skill to fight effectively in retardation, and unless you can survive long enough to embed important vibes and prep your opponent's limbs, retardation often works against the Magi. Magi is "easy" when the Magi has spent 1000s of credits on artifacts. I'd argue it's easier than Monk, actually.

Sylvan is mind-bogglingly easy, as is sentinel, but aren't as gimmicky as the two above, so you'll actually have to use several aliases to win, instead of one. Might be good a second or third class.

Sentinel is quite easy, yes, but it requires a handaxe that's going to cost you a good deal of credits (expect 150 - 250cr on a handaxe that is below a second in speed.) and also a working knowledge of afflictions and limb breaks, and how they interact. Even more so than Serpent in a lot of cases. Sylvan is not easy, either. It is however, one of the best classes to go without artifacts. Sylvans have a solid defence, with active and passive curing, damage mitigation and escape abilities. Their offence takes a bit of getting your head around to be effective with against the majority of people, but it does pay off. Personally, this is my second favourite class in the game.

Runewarden is actually a little tricky to master (and is said to require a lot of artefacts), but you'll get lots of easy kills on people who don't know how to avoid damage stacking and lunge/engage. If you're new to the game, one of the knight classes is a great place to start, since it requires less investment to be combat / bashing equipped, and is both powerful and pretty easy to learn.

Runewarden is possibly the class in the game that requires the least amount of artifacts, so you're wrong there. The Knight classes are however, a good class to begin the game with, because you can immediately get yourself acquainted with both venom strategies (afflictions) and limb breaks while having great cutting and blunt damage mitigation, along with algiz providing you with a straight 10% damage mitigation across the board - even the "unblockable" damage type. Quite difficult at higher tier because of various ways to slow down a Knight's prep, but arguably the class that requires the least investment to pk at a high level with.

Druid is pretty great, as it offers a ton of utility and combat power, without requiring much combat experience, but doesn't currently hold much in high-end combat (not something to worry about for your first class). You'll also have the benefit of being Eleusian, which means you'll have a community of people willing to help you get started (moreso than elsewhere).

Druid point blank sucks at 1v1 combat. Requires a lot of artifacts to pk with and at a high level your strategy is always going to be damage. The balances are incredibly slow and this is just a boring class to fight with in my opinion. Very good in terms of utility and hunting, and is also a decent class to have in group combat.

Blademaster is interesting, simple, decent, offensively, and is super tough to kill. However, it's pretty terrible for beginners, at is appears to require completing all three class skillsets to really kill anyone, and requires a lot of combat experience, as your primary method of not dying is to evading out of dangerous combat situations (thus, you have to recognize when to do so).

Blademaster only requires transcendent Twoarts and Striking up to Feet, so it's not all that bad in terms of lesson investment. Shindo is just the icing on the cake - evade and lifevision aren't necessary, but they help a lot with survivability. You have Mir stance in Twoarts which provides 20% damage mitigation and a very fast offence that can be used for hindering. Very strong class in 1v1, very good in group melee, is decent at hunting.

Avoid Apostate, Shaman, Bard, Jester. No class is "bad" to start out as, but these are classes where you're going to be either great at combat, or absolutely worthless.

The above classes are only really bad for a beginner because they require a heavy lesson investment. Shaman being the least of the lot, which requires two transcendent skills at most, really. All good classes to pk with, but none of them are simple.

Serpent is a wild card, as it is by far the most complex class in the game. However, for a new player, it offers a ton of great utilities (notably: phase, wormholes, dash, evade), and if nothing else, you have snipe. Serpents also have a lot of help coming up, as it's one of the more popular classes, and therefore tends to have pretty active houses. Just don't expect to kill anyone or bash anything bigger than a pixie until you cash in for some survival artefacts - serpent is insanely weak, defensively, against all forms of damage.

Serpent is actually one of the classes that is well-off against damage. Not in terms of mitigation necessarily, but they do have Scales as a defensive buff which is excellent, and they can bypass all forms of room hindrance with Evade. Their offence is also very "burst afflictions", in where you setup your opponent with Hypnosis and then you deliver a massive amount of affs within the space of a single rebounding cycle (8.5 seconds) in an attempt to lock them. It's not really the most complex in terms of knowledge, but it does take some practise and muscle memory to get used to controlling your entire offence fluidly. Most Serpents nowadays just automate half their offence, and there's nothing wrong with that if you do it well. A decent class, personally, and my favourite. You have great potential in groups with scytherus burst damage combined with afflictions (scytherus relapse rate ties in with the amount of affs your opponent has) and you have high damage potential - and kill stealing potential - with evading out of a room and sniping your enemies. Excellent assassin class, moderate to slightly above average hunting. Downside: Requires a high lesson investment, and for maximum potential you need to hunt to a relatively high level (only around 85 or so).

Replies in bold.

EDIT: Just have to add, no I don't disagree with you because of your name. And can I get a couple of LOL's in here for the assertion that I've only played two classes and that Shecks knows considerably more about combat than me? I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

You know, people might be less frustrated with you if you weren't such a c-nut.

Shecks · February 2014

@Jovolo, you seem to have agreed with me on virtually everything I said, aside from the fact that you have this ridiculous notion that monk is difficult. Sure, you need a ton of arties to kill someone who has a ton of arties, but not playing people at your own level. The magi thing, that was my point. The only way to beat anyone competent is to drop retardation in full vibes and hope your skill level in retardation (plus vibes) is better than their skill level at surviving it. This requires a ton of experience, a great curing system, knowing what's in all the rooms around you (monoliths, doors, etc), and generally requires knowing how good your opponent is and/or anticipating their reaction before you drop it. None of this is really available to a new player, and thus leaves only option A) Never use retardation, and never kill anyone. Or... D) Drop retardation and lose a lot.

Can you please change your response to "Agree"? I thrive on your positive feedback. I'll compromise and say that blademaster is decent without tri-trans. Decent.

Shecks · February 2014

@Jovolo, he asked what two classes are good to start out as, not which two you think are (simultaneously) your favorite, and the easiest. Monk and Sylvan are the cheapest classes in the game, since they can both prep their way to victory without actually ever engaging in what normal people would consider "combat". They don't have to be played like this, but since they can be, everyone does.

@Ilanore if you want to get into combat without getting overwhelmed, but come out of it with a better understanding of how combat works, try a knight or forestal class. You'll come out of it understanding both limb damage and venom use. If you want to cheese your way to deathsights with deliverance, kai choke, telepathy guard kicking, and unpreventable, unbalanced limb prep setups, then play monk. I don't recommend it because 1) It's lame. 2) You won't learn anything about venoms, or ever know what it's like to fight against someone who isn't prone constantly. (it's tougher that way)

Mithridates · February 2014

Yeah I was about to say magi is good at lower level because you can simply out-damage everyone. Then, when you start fighting bigger, better people it gets instantly harder. Especially when you're fighting walking piles of artifacts. And no, it's not just being able to drop it with full vibes, but I won't give away my glaringly obvious strategies.

Jovolo · February 2014

If I agreed I would. I could only agree with a couple of your points though, and I disagreed with the majority of it. read: bold comments. It's not that you were wrong per-se, but you made comments regarding things you weren't sure of like: "Runewardens require a lot of artifacts" and "Magi is easy" and "Serpent is by far the most complex class in the game."

Thanks for being kind of civil.

Nemutaur · February 2014

Shecks said:

... Jovolo has played midbie in about 2-3 (being generous here), ...

Jovolo said:

And can I get a couple of LOL's in here for the assertion that I've only played two classes ...

Damn quoting, but lets look at it. There's this list which 3 people dominate, their names are Jovolo/Garao, Mizik, Seftin.

Now what do all those people have in common? That's right! The inability to stay one class for a whole season of How I Met Your Mother or even Sherlock.

Shecks · February 2014

I didn't say he hasn't been a lot of classes. I was referring to him being any good at them.

I should have put a * in there.

*I was gone for a while, maybe he was good at something after I left, and before I came back.

Jovolo (male Grook).
He is 72 years old, having been born on the 22nd of Ero, 575 years after the fall of the Seleucarian
Empire.
He is ranked 959th in Achaea.
He is an extremely credible character.
He is not known for acts of infamy.
He is a Settler in Targossas.
He is considered to be approximately 35% of your might.
He is a mentor and able to take on proteges.

Oh. Yep.

Kaden · February 2014

I will point out that most newbies learning combat tend to stick around with people in their "perceived" skill level. In which case even "dry" retardation can probably tear into them and that's without considering what you could do with a decent-ish stack against lower tier fighters.

I will say that magi is probably one of the easier classes to code for (though my only point of comparison so far was all the skill juggling I have to do with a BM alt) and requires only trans elementalism, crystalism to retardation and weaponry to maybe envenom and 100 lessons to learn a weapon. Dagger maybe, though just up to targeting (or parry for the extra defense) works too when you're just starting out. Of course the drawback is that it's damned difficult to fight back when jumped without a full vibestack but training early on in retardation and embracing it without fear will give you a leg up in terms of fighting in those conditions than even some of the more experienced fighters whose first instinct is to shun it.

I will further say that I found learning the class to be very easy when someone finally took the time to teach me about staffstrike.

Mithridates · February 2014

Will you guys stop having a dick-measuring contest? This is about helping someone choose a class, not how awesome you are compared to person x.

Jovolo · February 2014

Shecks said:

@Jovolo, he asked what two classes are good to start out as, not which two you think are (simultaneously) your favorite, and the easiest. Monk and Sylvan are the cheapest classes in the game, since they can both prep their way to victory without actually ever engaging in what normal people would consider "combat". They don't have to be played like this, but since they can be, everyone does.

I get that, but it's just not the case for Monk. All of their survivability comes from Kaido. and when you fight people that are above level 70, It's really, really difficult as a Monk without some kind of damage buff - Knuckles, Icon and Strength artifacts are the ones that come to mind - to put a lethal dent in your opponent. Especially if they're a class - and this is almost all of them - that is designed to mitigate or hinder either: blunt damage, tekura accuracy, tekura proning, or tekura finishers. If you legitimately die to a Monk that doesn't have any of the aforementioned buffs and who only has Tekura, or even Kaido too, then you're just not very good. Monk's are weakest to DPS and burst damage (if they have no Numb and Kai Heal) and their class balances are relatively slow. It's difficult to take your opinion seriously because you have such a biased hatred towards Monks. If you remove that Vaehl, Monks without artifacts are not the easiest, nor the simplest class to fight at mid-tier with.

Sylvan on the other hand is amazing. I strongly recommend OP chooses Sylvan or a Knight class for the lowest lesson and credit investment needed to PK at a moderate level with and still being simple classes to learn to fight with, while also benefiting from above average hunting.

Jules · February 2014

This poor kid... No one wants their class to be "easy" in Achaea, because that makes it worthless for peen measuring. OP, I am not a combatant, and haven't played multiple classes, but I had a friend come back to play who has played a couple of classes, and he decided to try Blademaster. Also, like me, he isn't a coder. He loves Blademaster, or "BM" (giggle), as people call it. So that's another vote for Blademaster here as a fun, enjoyable class for someone who wants to get their feet wet in a bit of everything without pulling their hair out. I'm a Runewarden and this class is also considered to be easy for combat at lower levels. Thanks to runebinding, you can get by with crappier swords than other knight classes as well. I imagine you might be happy with either of these, and possibly the sylvan mentioned, especially if more lowbies/midbies chime in on it. That's not to say these classes will take you to the top once/if you decide you have the wherewithal to be a serious combatant. I don't know whether they would or not. There are always certain classes the top combatants avoid, unless they're looking for a supreme challenge to showcase their awesomeness, although it seems like we're at a point right now where that isn't as much of a problem as it used to be?

EDIT: for a long time runewarden was considered a "weak" class, but now it might be infernal that is the "weak" class needing admin love (i.e. difficult if not impossible to make viable against better combatants)?

Zii · February 2014

Blademaster. I use maybe 5 skills out of the 3 abilities.

Cooper · February 2014

*5 abilities out of the three skills

Antonius · February 2014

Jules said:

EDIT: for a long time runewarden was considered a "weak" class, but now it might be infernal that is the "weak" class needing admin love (i.e. difficult if not impossible to make viable against better combatants)?

Infernal is definitely not weak. It has the most viable options of the three Knight classes when it comes to killing, two of which force conflicting choices on their opponent. If somebody can survive against a good Infernal there's very little reason they shouldn't be capable of surviving against any other Knight class.

Arador · February 2014

Yeah Infernal 1vs1 is in a good spot right now. It astounds me sometimes how many interesting possibilities I come across when toying with my offence and wish I was better at changing methods mid break chain. The only love it does need, as with all Knights is a better parry bypass or a shorter setup time cause that can become tedious on people with smart static parrying, rebounding or very high dodging.

Mithridates · February 2014

I disagree with parry bypassing for any class, personally.

Ilanore · February 2014

Wow thanks for all the replies! I'm really debating on Sylvan, Druid, or Priest.. all three are intriguing to me. Druids aren't good at 1v1? Why not?

Ilanore · February 2014

Oh I should clarify I guess, I don't need my class to be super easy, I would just like to be competitive without heavy investment. Getting better over time as I become tri-trans and possibly get an artie or two (way down the line) would be nice too, I just would like to be at least average against people my strength.

Mithridates · February 2014

Magi can be done without heavy investment. It's just a lot easier to artie out and then dor staffcast x

but to clarify, out of the choices you've listed, sylvan is your best bet. You can make money off concoctions, while not having to spend any money on health/moss. Furthermore, viridian is like an artie, so there's that. Thornrend does a buttload of damage.

Ilanore · February 2014

Nice! Sylvan sounds pretty intriguing then. What about Alchemist, though? The immortality with physiology sounds pretty cool and with great RP potential when you can pretty much disregard your safety, Homunculi sound pretty awesome for being silly and annoying people too.

Mithridates · February 2014

No idea.

Ilanore · February 2014

I hear not many people play alchemist for combat purposes, which I guess is a perk, unless they really just aren't meant for it.

Kaden · February 2014

Alchemists have a rough time 1v1 right now, I think. Though that could also be me just being lucky enough to play a class that doesn't have to worry so much about them. They have some utility in group fights and fairly decent damage though.

Kafziel · February 2014

Alchemist is good for mid-tier because people don't really know how to fight them well and if you don't get their momentum under control early you're basically guaranteed dead. Because of the way they're implemented most experienced people won't really die to an alchemist that often because they know when the point of no return is and can turtle/run at that point.

Ilanore · February 2014

Why are druids bad 1v1? They seem extremely flexible with all of the different morphs, and hydra especially looks awesome. I guess Sentinel could be a choice too, I like the idea of setting traps and stuff but i'm not sure how effective they are on the fly.

Also...

What can druids do that sylvans can't, and vice versa? I know they are very similar, though. And yeah! Ents are pretty awesome, but druid could also be some pretty cool RP too. I think with this character I finally want to focus on unique rp, it's not all about advancing anymore, because i've found after the first little bit you kinda hit a plateau, at least I do.

Jovolo · February 2014

Their balances are very slow and they don't outpace curing at all. They might have a lot of morphs, but this helps with utility (flying, foraging for food, tracking, fast endurance regen, burrowing, and so on) - not really combat efficiency. Their two instant kills are freeze pound: Which is technically not even an instant kill. It does 97% or 98% damage, I can't remember which, and the damage can even be mitigated by defenses. It is also really easily avoided. The other is incinerate. Incinerate is an instant kill if your opponent reaches under 50% health, which is viable but one dimensional (your main damage output is your hunting attack, maul.) and turns your PvP into a boring PvE style fight.

If you can't invest a lot of credits for artifacts to optimize your damage output, you won't be very successful and you might get bored.

Sylvan on the other hand is pretty damn fun, and also very effective in hunting, group fights and 1v1, while sharing Druid utility of groves, having the ability to harvest and make their own curatives while also making money from this, and they are factionalized - Lots of roleplay potential and you have easy, encouraged access to conflict (fights) whenever you want it.

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