Combat Balance Philosophy

Jovolo · July 2013

I agree. It might suck that I'll die to an artefacted Monk with minimal effort on their part, but when you consider the additional defences you can afford yourself against a Monk it starts to balance out.

Fighting against a Monk is all defensive precaution and necessary pressure placed on the Monk. If you ever find yourself attacking a Monk with <65% health when they almost have you prepped, you only have yourself to blame. If you stay mounted, then they have to Kai Banish your mount in preparation to kill you, and this is a pretty clear indicator they're about to do their setup and you can bail until the mount returns.

It also means they can't afford to throw an enfeeble at you, and you're in a much better position to tank them. Also consider the amount of classes that can hinder movement through rooms. Tower tarot, banana peels, gravehands, piety, wildgrowth, (icewalls for everyone), wunjo/narait, luckily Reel/Gremlin tick, etcetera.

I haven't seen it, but RHK also still has terrible accuracy apparently, combine that with transcendant avoidance+mounted+parry(+clumsiness for some), you can slow down a Monk's prep very well.

From a point of view of someone without several of these things, then yeah Monks can seem pretty op. Like, from my perspective! Level 80 infernal inept avoidance, riding and no artefacts. Of course they blow right through me. Better get hunting for those gold and credits. But if we balanced Infernal's around people who couldn't use RESTORE, then we'd also be pretty boned too.

I'm pretty comfortable with how Monks are currently, houses just need blunt icons tuned down a bit or removed entirely, the combat itself is pretty okay, and people need to learn to not attack Monks with less than 60% health. (Though Kai gain could use a fix, and I'm skeptical about perma mangling (Which it truly is), which is possible from a doublebreak alone; I don't see how that's balanced really. Also, unless Azuhi has artefacts, then it's possible for any Monk with transcendent tekura)

Cynlael · July 2013

Sylvan hunting is bad? What the f- are you smoking?

Get a circlet, trans philo + perma megalith and that's -all- you need to bash well for long periods of time...
Add in grove rain + hive for willpower regen -if- you need it.
Also +% sip bonus from trans concoctions, vigour...

PS: It's ~2.55, not 2.7 speed, ~2.3 with a diadem if you decide to get one.

PPS: Play a class before you want to decide if it's shit hunting.

Mishgul · July 2013

Vaehl almost killed me as a level newb monk while i was a 8k health dragon. I dont fight monks like him or rennyn or krian everyday though. Most monks seem to be lazy c-nuts who just want to to break an arm and two legs.

Mizik · July 2013

Cooper said:

@Naisar

You realize that if a monk axk's you, they are off balance for a LONG time, right? Also, monks don't combo at 2.1s in scorpion (unless something has changed since I stopped playing much, which according to announce posts hasn't happened). Perma mangle without either extreme low hp and perfect comboing or artefact knuckles isn't possible. Sure, you might be able to double break, mangle, break, but then the person will stand up, and combos aren't enough to kill people.

60% max health from an attack that 1v1 requires at least 1 broken leg and a roughly 6 second balance is not broken in the least, even at 13str. Also if you let even level 3 knuckles monk perma mangle you, you are playing wrong. Walls and tumble are there for good reason.

The' guaranteed torso break double bbt' that you PM'd me is hardly guaranteed and requires a whole additional skill to be transed and is almost impossible for unartied monks anyway. And yeah, if you let yourself get all your limbs setup + torso you SHOULD die to a monk guaranteed. It takes a while for that to happen with proper hinderance.

You guys are really mistaking a broken class for people that are heavily artefacted + perhaps icon+scimitar.

This post is so 1999.

All a monk needs to kill anyone is about 15 Str and BBT. I didn't need knuckles, but kept getting out prepped by Nemutaur by 4-5 combos (also, Blademasters) - payed for convenience like a proper American.

When did 6k+ health become 'extremely low' - that's pretty much the SCS two combo cutoff. I'm level 101 and sit at 4.5k. Also, the term 'perfect combo' has been replaced by the COMBO command.

What are you comboing at in SCS, Coop? Why am I faster than you?

Naisar · July 2013

@Jovolo Unartefacted monks can kill me from full health without any trouble at all, as you'll notice other people in this thread mentioning. Sure, if you let them execute their setups with two thirds health it's on you, but I'm not sure why that matters when there are easy, powerful setups that will kill me from full.

Running on the mount banish is the right move, I agree, but there are plenty of times when it's not possible to have a mount. Some classes can't use them, and outside of the Arena a monk can just flat out kill the thing (unless you've shelled out credits for an invincible one, and we can hardly make that the standard).

I haven't counted the RHK accuracy in my spars, but even hindering as much as possible Monks prep my limbs 2-4 times faster than I prep theirs.

@Cynlael Wow, that was peculiarly aggressive. I imagine that yes, if you pour enough credits into willpower regen Sylvan becomes much better. However, other classes could be spending those credits on things like blademaster bands, or fire pendants, or sip rings. Get my drift? And what's this about thornrend? It's a 3 second equilibrium attack, and has been I think forever. Quick-witted takes it to 2.7 seconds. You're going to see some variance because Achaea's not super precise about these things, but the average is definitely going to be sitting near to 2.7. In fact, I just ran out on my Sylvan alt (jackass) and got an average of 2.711 seconds equilibrium loss across 30 thornrends. Furthermore, a Sylvan's bashing power doesn't scale well into the late levels compared to other classes because thornrend is slow and a single attack. Crits are the deciding factor in high-level bashing, and those scale with speed & number of attacks.

Anyway, the point a lot of us are trying to make about Monks is that we feel that they're very strong (if not the best) in a lot of areas. They have unique strengths and very few weaknesses. Their setups are very mobile, even more so now that they retain stance, and it's gotten to the point where even if I have perfect defensive play I can't guarantee survival. When I fight other classes it doesn't feel that way. This would be less of a problem if they didn't prepare for their setups extremely quickly, but they beat me there too. And if I get to try for my setup, I'm facing mind batters and cripples. Then when raids come around they're a whirlwind of area-wide attacks and terrifying in-room damage. I keep getting told that classes are non-symmetrical and that each has different strengths and weaknesses, and I agree with that. It just seems like Monk has more strengths and fewer weaknesses than anyone else.

Edit: Grammar

Jovolo · July 2013

@Naisar what Monk are you talking about exactly? Could you post a log of them killing you from full health just so we can see how much damage they do exactly against your algiz/fullplate/tumbling over gular and into wunjo/nairat, etcetera. I am not your level/class so cannot test, I'd appreciate if you could show the evidence of that happening.

Naisar · July 2013

I have some logs from sparring Rom that are close to what you're looking for, although I have no idea what he's packing. I'll ask next time I see him around. I don't have fullplate, fyi, just 89 blunt fieldplate. This is a snip from the end of a spar in which I died because I forgot to enemy Rom while tumbling through stonewall. I can't keep him enemied throughout the fight or he can just hit wunjo/nairat on purpose ahead of time. I only started from 91% health, but as you'll see being at full wouldn't have mattered.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.178]: 4674h, 3666m, 20489e, 17036w xkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.284]: Rom comes flying in with a jumpkick from the north.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.291]: He slams into you, knocking you off your feet and stunning you!

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.296]: You lose purchase on a stubborn mule of Moghedu.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.300]: Rom balls up one fist and hammerfists you.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.303]: He connects to the left leg!

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.306]: Your left leg is greatly damaged from the beating.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.310]: Rom balls up one fist and hammerfists you.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.313]: He connects to the right leg!

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.316]: Your right leg is greatly damaged from the beating.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.323]: 2344h, 3666m, 20489e, 17036w xkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.395]: You are too stunned to be able to do anything.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.400]: 2344h, 3666m, 20489e, 17036w xkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.521]: You are too stunned to be able to do anything.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.526]: 2344h, 3666m, 20489e, 17036w xkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.636]: You have recovered equilibrium.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.644]: 2344h, 3666m, 20489e, 17036w exkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.751]: You may drink another health or mana elixir or tonic.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:01.760]: 2344h, 3666m, 20489e, 17036w exkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.094]: You are no longer stunned.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.104]: 2344h, 3666m, 20489e, 17036w exkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.254]: You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your legs.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.263]: 2344h, 3666m, 20489e, 17036w exkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.364]: You take a drink from an oaken vial.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.368]: The elixir heals and soothes you.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.378]: 3194h, 3666m, 20489e, 17036w exkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.382]: You eat a potash crystal.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.387]: You feel your health and mana replenished.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.392]: 3606h, 3666m, 20489e, 17036w exkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.396]: You remove 1 potash, bringing the total in the Rift to 982.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.401]: 3606h, 3666m, 20489e, 17036w exkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.405]: You are:

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.408]: an insomniac.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.412]: blind.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.416]: deaf.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.420]: has a partially damaged left leg.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.423]: has a partially damaged right leg.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.427]: sprawled on the ground.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.432]: 3606h, 3666m, 20489e, 17036w xkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.436]: Rom takes a drink from an oaken vial.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.441]: 3606h, 3666m, 20489e, 17036w xkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.832]: You must regain equilibrium first.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:02.836]: 3606h, 3666m, 20489e, 17036w xkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:03.210]: You have recovered equilibrium.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:03.217]: 3606h, 3666m, 20489e, 17048w exkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:03.373]: You begin to tumble agilely to the southwest.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:03.377]: 3606h, 3666m, 20509e, 17048w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:03.540]: You must regain balance first.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:03.547]: 3606h, 3666m, 20509e, 17048w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:04.822]: Rom moves in towards you in a grabbing posture.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:04.826]: Rom lifts you triumphantly into the air, then yanks you down into his raised knee with back breaking force.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:04.830]: 361h, 3666m, 20509e, 17048w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:06.252]: Your left leg feels stronger and healthier.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:06.255]: You may apply another salve or balm to yourself.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:06.260]: 361h, 3666m, 20509e, 17048w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:06.461]: You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your legs.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:06.467]: The bones in your left leg mend.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:06.472]: 618h, 3666m, 20509e, 17048w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:06.732]: You may drink another health or mana elixir or tonic.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:06.736]: 618h, 3666m, 20509e, 17048w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:06.840]: Rom takes a drink from an oaken vial.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:06.844]: 618h, 3666m, 20509e, 17048w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:06.953]: You take a drink from an oaken vial.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:06.959]: The elixir heals and soothes you.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:06.963]: 1628h, 3666m, 20509e, 17048w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:07.241]: You may eat another bit of irid moss or potash.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:07.249]: 1628h, 3666m, 20529e, 17060w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:07.406]: You eat a potash crystal.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:07.413]: You feel your health and mana replenished.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:07.418]: 2040h, 3666m, 20529e, 17060w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:07.520]: You remove 1 potash, bringing the total in the Rift to 981.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:07.528]: 2040h, 3666m, 20529e, 17060w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:07.535]: You may apply another salve or balm to yourself.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:07.539]: 2040h, 3666m, 20529e, 17060w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:07.699]: You take out some salve and quickly rub it on your legs.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:07.705]: 2040h, 3666m, 20529e, 17060w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:08.378]: You tumble out of the room.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:08.381]: Beneath a mossy overhang (indoors).

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:08.385]: A rune shaped like a butterfly has been sketched into the ground here. A rune like an open eye has been sketched into the ground here. A small axe lies here, discarded. A large wall of stone stands here, blocking passage to the northeast.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:08.389]: You see exits leading north and northeast.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:08.393]: 2040h, 3666m, 20529e, 17060w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:08.646]: Rom leaps in from the northeast.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:08.653]: 2040h, 3666m, 20529e, 17060w ekdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:09.680]: You have recovered balance on all limbs.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:09.686]: 2040h, 3666m, 20529e, 17060w exkdb-

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:09.912]: Rom kicks his leg high and scythes downwards at you.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:09.915]: He connects to the head!

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:09.918]: Your mind feels suddenly dulled and slow.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:09.921]: You have been slain by Rom.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:09.925]: **********************************************************

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:09.928]: You have been defeated and are thrown out of the Arena.

[04/07/2013 - 00:59:09.932]: **********************************************************

Mizik · July 2013

That's not one of mine is it?

Eld · July 2013

Above is with knuckles and blunt icon.

Mishgul · July 2013

hashan has a blunt icon now too yeah. Still ridiculous.

Naisar · July 2013

I've only been Runie for a short time so I don't have very many logs to choose from right now. Iakimen would have been perfect for this but he switched.

@Eld Black Lotus has a blunt icon? Doesn't that annoy your BMs and Runies?

Sena · July 2013

Naisar said:
I imagine that yes, if you pour enough credits into willpower regen Sylvan becomes much better. However, other classes could be spending those credits on things like blademaster bands, or fire pendants, or sip rings. Get my drift?

Even without artefacts, willpower isn't hard to restore. Sylvans have grove rain (<9 minutes to go from 0 to full with just trans philosophy, grove rain, and meditate) and harvest hive for fast regen twice a day, and after that it's not hard to find someone else to give you a grove rain or campfire, especially as part of a forestal organisation. Alchemists (which aren't hard to find) can easily give instant willpower refills (25% of their max willpower guaranteed if they're at full, after that there's a 50% chance of failure), which is a huge buff that people never seem to take advantage of.

Eld · July 2013

Naisar said:

I've only been Runie for a short time so I don't have very many logs to choose from right now. Iakimen would have been perfect for this but he switched.

@Eld Black Lotus has a blunt icon? Doesn't that annoy your BMs and Runies?

Yeah, Okk "accidentally" switched in when some discussion had come up (accidentally in scare quotes because I don't know how you retune an icon accidentally, so I assume he just decided to try it out without waiting for people to talk it over much). We were on strength before, which didn't really help the blademasters anyway (combat-wise, at least), so not much difference for us. Worse for runies, yeah.

Naisar · July 2013

Alright. When I was bashing Sylvan after endurance classes it felt completely awful, but perhaps that was just my experience.

Eld · July 2013

Sena said:

Naisar said:
I imagine that yes, if you pour enough credits into willpower regen Sylvan becomes much better. However, other classes could be spending those credits on things like blademaster bands, or fire pendants, or sip rings. Get my drift?

Even without artefacts, willpower isn't hard to restore. Sylvans have grove rain (<9 minutes to go from 0 to full with just trans philosophy, grove rain, and meditate) and harvest hive for fast regen twice a day, and after that it's not hard to find someone else to give you a grove rain or campfire, especially as part of a forestal organisation. Alchemists (which aren't hard to find) can easily give instant willpower refills (25% of their max willpower guaranteed if they're at full, after that there's a 50% chance of failure), which is a huge buff that people never seem to take advantage of.

Master contemplator helps, too. With just that, trans philo, and a megalith, it never seems to take me that long to meditate from 0 to full wp.

Jovolo · July 2013

Yeah, that dude has level 2 knuckles, is strength spec and has a blunt icon. He got me once too, luckily I don't dismount for runes and bail on banish so can manage to tank long enough to beat him, but yeah his damage is rough. (Does leap not hit runes? If he hit runes and you applied resto/tree'd instead of mending/restoration, you may have survived. Just a speculation though... but I agree. That's the issue of a blunt icon though... look at that jpk, nasty) It's not comparable to no arties/no blunt icon tho

Also I don'rt get how blunt icon is bad for runies. Isn't that more passive damage on your disembowel setups? Do want

Naisar · July 2013

I do survive if I make him hit runes- happened several times in that spar before I forgot to enemy mid tumble and died. Unfortunately I simply don't have a log of an unknuckled/unicon'd monk since I've gone runewarden.

Jovolo · July 2013

Understood.

Mizik · July 2013

My meteors and Ice Band Pommel Strike/Sternum spam was -ing vicious, dude.

And for Runewarden uber Thurisaz/Hugalaz raid machine ugh do want.

Eld · July 2013

Mizik said:

My meteors and Ice Band Pommel Strike/Sternum spam was -ing vicious, dude.

And for Runewarden uber Thurisaz/Hugalaz raid machine ugh do want.

All things we're looking forward to once I get a bow and we start actually raiding.

Cooper · July 2013

Mizik said:

Cooper said:

@Naisar

You realize that if a monk axk's you, they are off balance for a LONG time, right? Also, monks don't combo at 2.1s in scorpion (unless something has changed since I stopped playing much, which according to announce posts hasn't happened). Perma mangle without either extreme low hp and perfect comboing or artefact knuckles isn't possible. Sure, you might be able to double break, mangle, break, but then the person will stand up, and combos aren't enough to kill people.

60% max health from an attack that 1v1 requires at least 1 broken leg and a roughly 6 second balance is not broken in the least, even at 13str. Also if you let even level 3 knuckles monk perma mangle you, you are playing wrong. Walls and tumble are there for good reason.

The' guaranteed torso break double bbt' that you PM'd me is hardly guaranteed and requires a whole additional skill to be transed and is almost impossible for unartied monks anyway. And yeah, if you let yourself get all your limbs setup + torso you SHOULD die to a monk guaranteed. It takes a while for that to happen with proper hinderance.

You guys are really mistaking a broken class for people that are heavily artefacted + perhaps icon+scimitar.

This post is so 1999.

All a monk needs to kill anyone is about 15 Str and BBT. I didn't need knuckles, but kept getting out prepped by Nemutaur by 4-5 combos (also, Blademasters) - payed for convenience like a proper American.

When did 6k+ health become 'extremely low' - that's pretty much the SCS two combo cutoff. I'm level 101 and sit at 4.5k. Also, the term 'perfect combo' has been replaced by the COMBO command.

What are you comboing at in SCS, Coop? Why am I faster than you?

I never said anything about 6k health being extremely low?

I will admit that I didn't remember about the combo command being implemented and how it respects balance, effectively giving monks ~.2-.3 faster balance now (which changes my opinion on 'a long time on the ground mangle but still not quite perma but probably long enough to kill most people if the monk has nimble and good str and your opponent didn't wall properly') - I remember it being 2.3-2.4, but you have to remember I haven't played in 5 months and my memory does get hazy sometimes.

@Naisar - your 'stop tumble' is possible, but mindlocks are so fickle that you can never count on them to even last 10 seconds. Against opponents with higher int/willpower than you, it can take a significant amount of time to gain the lock, and then you have to hold it long enough to be in a good position to unleash your combo. It sounds easy, but in practice it's not. Against a lot of opponents it is difficult for a monk to go 10-20+ seconds without using equilibrium.

Terra · July 2013

Jovolo said:

I agree. It might suck that I'll die to an artefacted Monk with minimal effort on their part, but when you consider the additional defences you can afford yourself against a Monk it starts to balance out.
Fighting against a Monk is all defensive precaution and necessary pressure placed on the Monk. If you ever find yourself attacking a Monk with <65% health when they almost have you prepped, you only have yourself to blame. If you stay mounted, then they have to Kai Banish your mount in preparation to kill you, and this is a pretty clear indicator they're about to do their setup and you can bail until the mount returns.
It also means they can't afford to throw an enfeeble at you, and you're in a much better position to tank them. Also consider the amount of classes that can hinder movement through rooms. Tower tarot, banana peels, gravehands, piety, wildgrowth, (icewalls for everyone), wunjo/narait, luckily Reel/Gremlin tick, etcetera.
I haven't seen it, but RHK also still has terrible accuracy apparently, combine that with transcendant avoidance+mounted+parry(+clumsiness for some), you can slow down a Monk's prep very well.
From a point of view of someone without several of these things, then yeah Monks can seem pretty op. Like, from my perspective! Level 80 infernal inept avoidance, riding and no artefacts. Of course they blow right through me. Better get hunting for those gold and credits. But if we balanced Infernal's around people who couldn't use RESTORE, then we'd also be pretty boned too.
I'm pretty comfortable with how Monks are currently, houses just need blunt icons tuned down a bit or removed entirely, the combat itself is pretty okay, and people need to learn to not attack Monks with less than 60% health. (Though Kai gain could use a fix, and I'm skeptical about perma mangling (Which it truly is), which is possible from a doublebreak alone; I don't see how that's balanced really. Also, unless Azuhi has artefacts, then it's possible for any Monk with transcendent tekura)

I'd completely agree with this if everyone had access to an artie pet, but... can't the monk just kill a normal mount in like two combos? I don't understand how people think mounts solve everything. They only would if keeping one with you was possible (without an expensive invincible pet).

That being said, I'd be perfectly fine with axk only doing omgwtf damage when head is broken.

Mishgul · July 2013

If it wasn't so easy to prep a headbreak.

Militis · July 2013

Looks like torso BBT damage+icon. But why shouldn't a monk smash you like that with their prone finisher if you let your torso go unchecked? And the Icon should be toned down a bit but lets not all forget it should still be considered an advantage because of what is required of you when you are a part of the House it belongs to, they are expensive to buy, and need upkeep/defense. Don't know why JPK is so high right now but needs reworked.

Mind locks are silly hard to keep, especially as a strength build, and telepathy as a whole has been downgraded, for example more things require a mindlock to perform even in room. Combined with the way Kai has to be managed very carefully now, their defensive strengths aren't as ridiculous as some of you claim.

Prep still takes longer than you are making it out to be, some classes longer than others. I personally think RHK shouldn't have been implemented the way it was. So people that wanted the more precise prep would have to pay for the lessons in weaponry and proficiencies+upkeep of axes, dealing with projectiles, missing, and so on.

Cooper · July 2013

My classlead years ago had rhk as a shield breaker. I liked that better

Arditi · July 2013

When two cities which are pretty much all but allied control the only sets of icons, and the continuous bashing of one to two Dragons will produce enough shards (and gold to buy extra shards as needed) to ensure the upkeep of the icon, there's not really an opportunity cost to maintaining an Icon any more.

Zeon · July 2013

what class is Militis now?

Naisar · July 2013

No torso damage, look at the diagnose.

Militis · July 2013

Still Monk sir

Mishgul · July 2013

lower class

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