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PK Updates: Announce #5364
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Comments
@Kog She should try it out. We have an unlimited gold faucet that, by my napkin math, will pay off my PvP artefacts in approximately 92,000 RL years.
@Thaisen taking your comment in earnest, please, elaborate on when you last had 150 paid deaths in a row from this mechanic. Kindly enlighten me on how and why you've apparently ignored the 150 obvious warnings that went with them, then.
I don't want to play pigeon chess with you.
I don't have data to back this up, so maybe someone more experienced can weigh in, but what's the overlap between mobs that hire and important quest givers?
I expected it to be mostly renown mobs to slow down credit generation, but of the three I've found so far only one had generated renown.
If it's just a way to leave quest givers alive a little longer without making them immortal, what's the big deal?
@Elyon You missed the point so entirely I'm not even sure where to start...
Since the discussion is being framed partially in some weird PKers vs others tribal lines for some reason, I feel like this bears posting.
I played this game for years in 2007-2010ish and am just coming back now, I could barely fill my pipe without Vadisys let alone fight off a Mark when I was most active, and as historically an almost exclusively RP-centric player I think these changes are really great and improve game world immersion by increasing player interaction for those who wish to take part. I've had cause counted on me in old Achaea and sought an IC resolution. It ended up turning into a pretty fun little avenue for my character and resulted in the resolution of some otherwise tense relationships. Increased interaction between RP and PvP through the world is a fantastic way to deepen the experience of the game for those who want to take part, in my opinion. Still unconvinced in any way that these changes will do much but benefit every player who wishes to take part and won't intrude at all on the experiences of those who do not except, perhaps, to make their characters make MORE sense roleplay-wise regarding their IG conduct. Perhaps it doesn't make as much sense for Vertani or whomever to hire a Mark, but it increases interpersonal interactions in the playerbase which is a good thing, and honestly the lore exists as a framework for us to help paint upon, and a bending of the framework to create more opportunities for that painting is worth more than the strict draw-within-the-lines nitpicking I see happen a lot in these situations. I respect most of the opinions that have been voiced here but in the end I think I feel pretty firmly that this is a nice step toward deepening Achaean immersion, which is really what I care about as a player.
I believe the main problem is how some of the playerbase have perceived this game as safe spaces for so long and are not willing to give up some of it. Amranu is completely right, this is not something people should be complaining of as everyone has avenues to avoid it. At this point suggestions are the right path in order to help create even a better system.
Mine is:
Just waiting on the quote button to come back so I can repost what I said a couple pages back.
I'm just speculating because I don't know any better, but people have been complaining in this very thread about finding quest givers dead because over-zealous bashers have cleared them out before being able to turn in a quest.
A soft disincentive that leaves certain mobs alive is wildly easier to justify for me than the blanket immunity to damage that I've encountered a few times. If their answer to both is to discourage rampant quest giver killing with the threat of bounties, I find that solution fairly clever and inventive.
This sums up this thread for the last 8 pages.
While I don't personally like the changes, I like the spirit of them. I am almost entirely a non-com that really enjoys hunting. Mainly because I just never could get my head wrapped around pvp combat. There's a whole lot to learn and then setting up a system to make it all work was just something I tried but wasn't too interested in. Making the world more immersive sounds awesome! Having experienced pvp players get contracts on pve interactions seems like a lazy mechanic. There are village feelings that don't really do much. There are areas that are allied with cities that provide protection of some kind. This seems like a big opportunity to beef up these systems that exist but don't really accomplish much.
What if the village feelings system worked on an individual basis and based upon which factions you belong to? There are a lot of ways this could play out. The thought of villages allying up to cities for protection (and possibly trade?) sounds amazing! They could provide commodities and their allies could fulfill bounties.
What if there were another org that seems to be focused on NPCs? They could dispatch champions to help those in need of their services.
What if when certain NPCs die then they cry out and everyone in the area starts to close in on the aggressor?
This is just scratching the surface but there is so much potential that right now seems wasted on several systems that are already in place but don't really do much.
The current backlash seems to be more based on the fact that it's kind of silly to have experienced pvp characters hunt pve players. I know pve players won't be the only ones affected but for the most part the pve players that participate in pk seem fine. The idea for more immersion seems to be a great idea. Knowing which characters are going to put out a contract and avoiding them seems like setting this whole project up for disappointment if you want to encourage more conflict/immersion. It does seem like an easy way to opt out if you are not interested. I guess I like to think of how this could go instead of how it did go. Something awesome that changes how everything in the world interacts...or getting lolstomped by someone with a contract and everything else stays the same...
As interesting as it would probably be, I very much doubt the experience of being hunted down and murdered by an NPC is going to be any more satisfying than if it were done by another player. If anything at least the players are experienced enough to get it over with quickly.
Delete XP loss except for certain situations:
You go hunting, you die, you don't lose anything except a few minutes to stretch your legs while walking the Halls. Before someone chimes in again with "Xp loss is already meaningless", try to remember what it was like before you made it to 99, or 80 even.
The NPC avoids several potential issues with the current system.
It could happen quickly! - Now you have to trigger a contract and wait for someone to pursue it.
Some people can't stand certain characters and want no reason to interact with them - This goes around that. Although I'm sure no one would ever take a contract for the sole reason of griefing someone. This is another reason why some stay away from pvp because it turns into just getting ganked for an endless amount of reasons.
It could be an immersive RP scenario - It's unlikely that anyone with a contract is going to show up and declare that they are there to kill you for the heinous crimes you committed against whoever put the contract out. The NPC/Org or whatever could have a story to fit with the situation. I've been pleasantly surprised by characters over time here but let's be honest that they're just gonna pop up out of nowhere, kill you, and leave.
The combat is entirely different - Many that don't participate in pvp aren't going to be great at the style of combat involved. At least an NPC could be handled in the same way that the NPC who initiated the contract. The PC is going to be using pvp abilities which many pve characters are not as familiar with and are going to be at a disadvantage. You could just say to "git gud" but is that really making anything better? Most people that are going to complain didn't want to be involved in pvp in the first place.
I am thankful that I have had an overall positive experience with this game. This change has a lot of potential and I hope to see it play out in a positive way.
Admin should change it so that killing regular NPC villagers will spawn an appropriately-levelled NPC ivory/mark... And then if they kill the big No Kill guy, it turns into the PvP mark? Best of all worlds you get da RP + da PvE + da PvP
@Tirvai Marks don't get to see who the contract is on before they accept it. It's been mentioned multiple times that before it even gets to the point of a contract being issues, you'd have to attack and kill one of a very select few named, prominent NPC's.....during the time of which you are constantly being given warnings that if you continue a contract might be taken out on you. If anyone doesn't want to experience that, it's very easy to avoid.
@Big Papa Jomi Sounds like a good progression idea!
@Kresslack Wasn't sure about that. There do seem to be other issues related to completing contracts also. I'm guessing you didn't read all of what I said or you just wanted to agree by repeating several things?
@Tirvai I did read what you said and was just clarifying how the system currently works. Not seeing where anything I mentioned is repetitive of anything you posted.
There are RP based scenarios for the contracts that are taken out. Some of the scenarios I have seen are "An unjust assault upon the queen", "We sought peace but are shown only violence", "Crimes against the baronry", etc.
In regards to NPC assassins, if that were going to be the case it wouldn't very well make much sense to have the assassin be only as skillful as the NPC who was murdered and ordered the contract to begin with. There are a LOT of NPC's in Achaea who wipe the floor with even the average competent PvP'er, and some of which get considerably stronger with each kill. If anything those would be the types that would be sent to pursue a contract, not your run of the mill guardsman equivalent.
If you are gonna ask for NPCs to come be your mark, you know it is just gonna be uncrittable and hitting for like 5k a swing. Don't for a second think if it is an npc you will have a chance to survive anyway. I think if this is a system that the admin wanted that this is probably the best way to do it.
Welp. Just got my first death from contract. Eryl snuck up on me and killed me as I was hunting. Very lackluster. I spoke but there was no interaction back. He did his job efficiently and I died quickly. I dunno if embracing death and listening to Ugrach for a few minutes would be what I qualify as immersion but hey....I'm sure it was for him!
Ahh yes. much danger. very rp.
Why do people feel like they are owed RP from the assassin after ignoring a warning from a denizen, and getting an assassin hired on them? It is not the assassin's job to say "Sorry about this mate, ol' Mhunna's a little upset at you! We can grab a beer after if you want though!" The Mark's are only there to complete kills for other people/organizations when that person/org can't do it themselves, not host a tea party.
ETA: Not to say I won't talk after the kill, but I also feel absolutely no obligation to. I did the job I was hired to do. Do you stay at work an hour after you clock out every day to chitchat with customers?
Can confirm, Eryl goes in dry.
2021/8/06/19:02 You have successfully nullified a Champion contract that had been taken out on you
by Adrynkeep! The reason given was: Lord Adryn demands satisfaction from this murdering SWINE..
10/10 hiring reasons. Love it.
@Iaxus I didn't feel I was owed any RP. In fact...I didn't expect any. If you'll refer to my earlier post you can see this was stated by me as a reason against pc contracts. It would be cool but I don't expect an assassin filling a contract to RP the scenario. That would be a case for an NPC handling these situations. There could be storylines written and lots of ways to tie it all together for a living, breathing, immersive experience. This was just an experience of someone that doesn't like the new changes but is hopeful that they can be tweaked. It was annoying and added nothing. I was cannon fodder for an experienced combatant. Is this what the admin intended? What immersion was I supposed to feel? I can't kill certain denizens anymore or this will happen again? Seems you gotta meta now if you want to avoid these situations. Sounds like a step back from immersion. I'm just trying to provide feedback and possible changes to make it better.
@Caelan It was impressive! I just don't have the time or energy to even attempt to be on that level
Should issue Adryn for not being specific enough in his hire message
@Iaxus nobody thinks anyone is owed any RP in the interaction, but the "OooOoo this will make for some amazing RP!!!" crowd came in pretty hot and heavy in the first few pages of this thread.
It easily could. As with everything else, the limit is on the players involved to make situations interesting or memorable. This change just pushes players together who opt in. This is starting to get eye-rolly
ThIs Is StArTiNg To GeT eYe-RoLly
idek why people are arguing at this point. Nobody gives a shit about the other’s arguments. We all think we are right, so who cares anyways.
Well if everyone else was at the point that you're at then you'd be right, but luckily there are still more reasonable folks in the conversation who think it's worth a damn.
The warning is in red?
Way to not include us colorblind kids again
Welp. Just got my first death from contract. Eryl snuck up on me and killed me as I was hunting. Very lackluster. I spoke but there was no interaction back. He did his job efficiently and I died quickly. I dunno if embracing death and listening to Ugrach for a few minutes would be what I qualify as immersion but hey....I'm sure it was for him!
I don't know what you expected when you told Duke Semiro 'neener neener'.