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PK Updates: Announce #5364
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Wow...IMO that comment from Atalkez was far more rude and disrespectful than anything Namino said...wonder if he'll get hit with a forum ban? Some of the best RPers in the history of the game couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. What is the criteria for PvE skill...world game results...that are open PK? Have you interacted with every single player in the game and evaluated their RP, PvP, and PvE skill?
So we're talking outliers? I clearly said average and vast majority. Jurixe or Flair are institutions to themselves, nobody would dispute that. My point is people keep talking about PvP and PvE in a vacuum which is entirely illogical. Every PvP person that I know participates in PvE at a higher rate, and often with higher success, than most of the game. I don't find that statement to be at all inflammatory or disrespectful. Maybe including RP was a bit much, I'll grant you that. Still, there is a reason that every facet of this game you can point to a PvP centered person as a fantastic representation of what succeeding in that facet looks like. Penwize for hunting, Mezghar for questing, Proficy for mining. RP is much more subjective, so I'll back off of that point, but the rest stands.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
...How far has this game gone when the average pvper does rp.
Where is my Axoyele!
Just going to skip past the Grukai and say it's about damn time that the people of the world outside the major city-states realized that they can reach out to organizations like the Quisalis or Ivory and coordinate in defense of their homes!
Could there be other systems? An NPC that scales, as has been suggested? Maybe! (should the mark system use scaled marks too just in case someone is a 'non-com'?)
Could a wergeld system be implemented, where players are offered a chance to compensate for losses before other actions are taken? Maybe!
Can you farm up a lot of experience in PK, such as 'raiding', or attacking a city-state to slaughter its citizens? Yup.
Could they revert this change, then make it so raiders can ransack a city-state's treasury, shops, etc instead? Yeah!
If I'm playing a game of D&D, and our group torches some town (gotta play that evil campaign), you damn well better expect any survivors to seek revenge or retribution. Achaea is supposed to be an immersive world. There should be consequences to your actions. NPCs are not just punching bags, they are living elements of the world. I'm tired of the notion that NPCs are second class people in the world of Achaea. They are not. Hell, all those players who have left the adventuring life behind? NPCs now! (which could be used to support an NPC 'mark' type idea)
Honestly this seems like a lot of bitching for a potential death, when death doesn't really matter because xp loss is no where near where it was years ago and bonuses are abundant. You still get your gold. You still get your xp. Go slaughter another village or two and let the heat die down in the first one, then go back again. Or have your character seriously consider the wanton slaughter of people. Or hop in the arena and learn some basics.
So, to sum, want to kill NPCs to get xp? Yes, go ahead. Want to kill players to get xp? Yes, there are avenues to do so! Expect to do either without consequence? No, let's not.
You didn’t include a category for commodity arbitrage, which I am the best at… so I take offense. :P
Most PvPers probably play more hours in the day and are likely much better at scripting… I don’t know why you feel the need to disparage over half the player base because they don’t like the same things you do. That’s just rude.
It’s not my intention to disparage anyone. It is my intention to point out how ridiculous it is to speak about these things as if they aren’t related and one group of people don’t involve themselves at every turn that they can. PK is not the only thing that we do.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
I don't really have a horse in this race, but thank you for not introducing this immediately after I drowned half a city and got a whole bunch of nameless NPCs on a mountain murdered by landslide.
Otherwise the Marks will have to take a ticket for their turn then go around and queue again while I get gangbanged.
@Iocun the current iteration is you burn the whole village except -that- house and you are still off scott free.
I really do appreciate the spirit of what the admin put forth... BUT it feels like not a lot if thought went into it and it was planned on a Sunday night to hit the Monday 7am deadline.
To summarize in my drunken haze : IT INELEGANT AS FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YALL.
Edit: no offense. I will sing you the song of my people to make amens :I LEFT MY HEART TO THE SAPPERS AROUND KHE SANH. AND MY SOUL WAS SOLD WITH MAH CIGARETTES TO THE BLACK MARKET MAN... and so forth.
Firstly this thread is hilarious. I love it. It's a whole leopards eating people's faces party scenario and it is truly wonderful. My dull morning has been sufficiently brightened by your efforts.
Secondly what @Atalkez seems mostly right. About 80% of serious pkers I know do actually take the rp side of things pretty seriously and are probably a lot better at the majority other parts of the game than most. Likely because becoming good at pvp requires a huge investment in the game beyond sitting around KILL RAT and eating pastries. They'll probably have, during that time of huge investment, visited most areas learned the lore etc. If you spend all your life in a city doing nothing or repeating the same foray you are not going to learn as much as someone who engages with far more aspects of the game than you do and I think you'll find as a rule these players will do well in non combat events or quizzes to.
If your IC actions consist of nothing but mindless bashing and forays then you aren't doing much for your character in a roleplay sense save for making them a punch clock murder hobo, which in itself is detrimental to other parts of the game. (I.e. starting a quest in tir murann and then returning to the appropriate vertani to find that he has met an unfortunate fate at the hands of some guy relentlessly killing everything they see until they hit dragon) .
God forbid a roleplaying game with a hugely detailed world where in some areas even the echo of your voice maybe sent somewhere else, where details so minute as blinking and breathing have been thought of, where denizens will occasionally have detailed parts in the story of what is going on would actually try to make it's static inhabitants a little more lively and less likely to just let Ghengis Khan waltz in for the fourteenth time this month and slaughter them all without consequence.
Caveat, I do meant to insinuate that non combatants in general do not roleplay of take their character seriously, merely the vast amount of people who seen to think that being Ugrach's chauffeur is their divinely appointed right.
Thirdly: @Skye it luckily happened after @Eurice nuked two planets, too. Between the two of you the marks would likely have afforded a new tower.
Fourthly: the contracts couldn't be made any more avoidable / opt out able if they flashed up in big red letters in front of you saying.... Oh wait
And finally, if the big friendly red words weren't enough for you and your script keeps killing that denizen either use a different script, keep a better watch on it, make a new script or don't use a script at all. Noone is forcing anyone to do the semi auto bashing most people do now. I've had my mount killed by people bashing before because they obviously weren't paying attention and maybe this might encourage more common sense and less "I know I can stomp this area in 5 minutes I guess I'll just watch the sopranos"
The fact that only certain NPCs do this, and they give warnings, kindof makes this whole system kinda pointless (unless it's a temporary thing that is planned to be expanded on, to ease the transition).
As it stands, it's so easy to avoid that it may as well not even exist. Blows my mind that people aren't satisfied with the giant warnings requiring repeated actions for anything to even happen.
This is pretty much like the giant red button that reads "Don't push me", except the people complaining haven't even pushed the button. They're just complaining that button exists even though they already know they're never going to push it. Like, why?
Hell I'm going to make a list of them and go kill them on loop just to piss of @Amranu with a long list of contracts he's never going to complete XD.
Boy that post doesn't have any irony in it whatsoever.
Disappearing from Achaea for now. See you, space cowboy.
smileyface#8048 if you wanna chat.
We dont like theft because it forces the useof the PvP or mark system.
We don't like whateverthefuckyouwanttocallthis because it forces use of the PvP or Mark system.
Yes. Leopards indeed. Also Shecks, I beleive Marks can only take 2 contracts at a time? Maybe 3? Go ahead and clog up those pipes.
To continue because we are hashing the same arguement over and over ad neither party is going to change their mind the song continues: I'VE HAD THE VIETNAM COLD TURKEY FROM THE OCEAN TO THE SILVER CITY AND IT'S ONLY OTHER VETS COULD UNDERSTAND.
Edit : to reiterate, I like the idea behind this system but it's flawed. It opens a gold faucet and if it isn't circumvented like it easily is it just pads Mark gold and KDR(?) whatever. I would be in for a mix of NPC/PLAYER contracts though as soon at the one denizen thing is addressed.
Marks can take 10 contracts. Pipes unclogged. Maybe listen to the Marks about the Mark stuff?
Also, gold faucet? What? Show your math please.
I suppose theoretically, if someone was willing to take the experience hit, they could continually hunt only the contract-awarding denizens and get a few contracts on them per hour, which the marks can then cash in for 10k+ gold each. It'd be a lot of effort to game specifically as an income source.
@Eurice what you just describable is already shrubbable under existing rules.
Also am I the only one noticing the irony of someone arguing for a pure unadulterated single player PvE gold farming experience complaining that marks get 10k gold?
If I could successfully fulfill two of these contracts per hour I wouldn't make a quarter of what I could earn mindlessly bashing for the same periof of time.
@Tahquil only it doesn't because there's big red warnings when you're getting close to said mark system. It's totally avoidable. Everything is flawed more or less and there's things to complain about everywhere but really if you don't want to interact with it you can just go hunt something that isn't sentient or just dodge the contract fellows
@Elyon well for one, I already do. For two its flawed, I'll leave it be cause meh, good enough. This is not a very good attitude for anything. Life, relationships, concrete foundations for apartment complexes.
I never argued it wasn't avoidable. Fucking read or there is a script somewhere floating around so you can ignore me on the forums as well and we'll both be happy.
@Shecks I admit this was my fault. I was listening to @Sobriquet complain about one of his slots is taken up by a dude that never leaves city and I assumed Mark slots were limited to 2 or 3.
As for the faucet, the gold for marks comes from nowhere. I may be wrong in this as well, but Mysias contract of 13k was well above double what you would get hunting to clear it out.
NOW LISTEN. I'm not saying marks don't deserve it, but it's a faucet if it adds to the gold pool without restricting it anywhere. We had a big old discussion with the uppity up dudes a few years ago about this when gold caps came in and then again when the seafaring bug came out. As an alternative and to try to mitigate this maybe Mysia doesn't drop gold for 2 IG days, or the person who triggered the contract gets restricted gold drops until they are in better standing.
But this is all hypothetical because as long as you commit near genocide on an hourly basis but don't touch that one guy, you're golden.
Edit: Oh shit, my bad uh.. fuck
ABOUT THE LONG FORGOTTEN DOCKSIDE GUARNTEES. HOW THERE WERE NO V-DAY HEROES IN 1973
I'd bet my SUV that gold generated from this won't even be 0.1% of what's generated from bashing. That'd be true even if wasn't possible for virtually everyone to completely avoid these contracts.
I think this deserves its own post instead of me tagging it to the previous.
I'm not being very zen about things at the moment so I apologies. I'm going take a 18hr timeout. Good luck, if you have the ability please try to empathize on both sides. Please see previous posts on my opinions
@Elyon Of course, I think we can all agree that 150 paid deaths in a row to escape a game mechanic is like the pinnacle of role play and immersive world building.
Good luck @Shecks. Outside the Quisalis den I haven't found a single denizen that hires Quisalis.
If the NPCs really want to rise up they ought to merk whoever keeps announcing those Great Hunts.
I genuinely do think the spirit of this idea can work though, with some tweaks made. I'd like to see it tied to either the Mark system (unaligned) OR city bounties (allied villages), OR some kind of cosmic avenger NPC (Tree) OR whatever it is Meropis does (drop a boat on them? Idk). Add a few more (sizable) beast-only areas for xp gain, and use that tower thing for Great Hunts going forward.
Area suggestions definitely not inspired by video games I've been playing while dying of the plague:
- Spiders have infested a mild-mannered village and you have to kill them (preferably with fire). Lower level area.
- Someone has been collecting the husks of all the adventurers who die for money, putting them on spikes and turning them into zombies. Go cull the herd, attacks inspired by serpent and forestal skills for no particular reason. (midbies)
- The werewolves of the LHG have formed a group somewhere and welcome all challengers, though weakened a little without Lupus. (higher levels)
The GH point is especially important because, if you want to encourage seeing NPCs as more than points, you need to stop treating them like points for events (especially with a credit prize).
Heard a few mentions of "I'm going to get killed again and again"
You would literally have to go around LOOKING for the flagged denizens and slaughter them multiple times (at least 2 times each to earn the contract in the first place, which means waiting for at least 1 respawn -1 hour ish-) then you're only going to get 1 contract per no matter how many times you kill that denizen until the first one is dealt with.
Recap: So for YOU to die multiple times to this system would require multiple assassins/champions taking your contracts across multiple days from YOUR multiple kills on a flagged denizen that YOU went out of your way to hunt... At this point I have a hard time believing you didn't do this intentionally for the drama.
zGUI 4.0 - A Free GUI for Mudlet 4.10+
The Ivory board doesn't get cleared a lot, however the Quisalis board does. If someone kills a mob that hires Quisalis they're going to find themselves dead fairly quickly. That being said, these quisalis hiring mobs don't seem to exist outside of maybe the Quisalis den which I haven't checked for obvious reasons. I probably need to bash more places first, but all the obvious spots on Sapience seem to be Ivory, unless the system works differently than I think.
@Makarios fairly sure it would make more sense for Dun and Moghedu to hire Quisalis than Ivory, but I am of course assuming it's a set organization they hire.
@Amranu Most are set orgs, a select few will use either org to ensure there's a flow of contracts on both boards. There are a few more Ivory than Quisalis overall, mostly for lore reasons (Quisalis is unpalatable to several denizen orgs not only in cases where assassins are not really their style but also for various historical ties). There are still plenty of Quisalis only scenarios though.
@Shecks I'm a Ivory Mark with a higher ranking than you and can only take 2 at a time, where are you getting 10 from?
Also:
You collect a chit which is dispatched to your client.
Your reputation among the ranks of the champions rises.
You have fulfilled your duties as Champion by slaying Personhere.
Org Contract..What is the Chit for?
@Amranu Ivory board has been clearing pretty quick lately since these changes, the only exception is the Hashani targets due to the number of Hashani Ivory members.
Chit system is independent from contracts.
Also, thanks for the heads up Ictinus. I'll keep looking.
@Sobriquet seems I misread this from OP
- The maximum number of contracts that can be filed at once has been increased from 5 to 10.
Kinda disappointing, this limit is really a pain when your targets (which get randomly assigned to you) are dormant, opposite time zone, or simply sit on their ship 24/7.
@Tahquil I think this means you're a Mark now?