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PK Updates: Announce #5364
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Comments
@Eurice This is one of the reasons I, and many others, tried to not bring it up. For well over a year I tried to work around it, but I keep seeing more and more of the game shift toward a PvP focus. I'm sorry if this now makes you feel like you're being held hostage, but many of us have been feeling that way for years already.
For a lot of us, we've already had avenues of interaction curtailed because of the prevalence of PvP without any way to actively flag "Hey, I'm not cool with combat, lets find another way to settle this." For example, if someone shouts something, and I shout a witty retort, the go-to feeling seems to be "talk shit get hit" and they can attack me for "insulting" them rather than coming up with an even more witty retort. So I guess I'm just not shouting any responses, in which case, why shout anything? A new event comes out? Awesome! Oh, it's Reckoning 2.0. Well, I can help until PvP mode gets engaged, and then I have to sit on the bench.
One thing you said has stuck out to me more and more, especially with recent gameplay that I've honestly enjoyed more than anything before. "The notion turns the act of playing the game into a constant source of new concern." This is something that a few of the people I've talked to have raised for years now. They've limited their gameplay down to a scope that still has interactions with other players, but limits the possibility of those interactions turning into combat. Personally, I have to question if I'll even be able to participate in certain events in the future because now factional combat has become nearly part-and-parcel of the game for pretty much every faction.
That being said, none of us want to see those that enjoy PvP having to give that up or curtail their fun. Hell, I want to see you guys have even more fun, and I wish there were more avenues for PvE players to help facilitate PvP players. I really think the war system revamp missed the mark with being able to bring together PvE players and PvP players into working together on a unified front in battleground instances. All we want, as PvE players, is a way to enjoy the game to the fullest extent and stay out of the PvP players ways when they want to do PvP stuff.
@Fendrel I don't want to put a burden on anyone by this, or by saying "Hey, you shouldn't do PvP." All I, and players like myself are asking for, is a way we can still play the game, influence the world, and help shape it in methods other than combat. At this time, we feel those options are dwindling as time goes on and PvP becomes more of a focus and this mentality of "It's just PvP, get over it" grows.
@Goethe I have to disagree with you here, and honestly, that mentality is troubling. Achaea is described as a game with many different avenues of interaction and gameplay, not just combat and PvP. "It's not a huge deal to play a different, less conflict-driven game if this one has a chance of being physically harmful." I'd also say it's not a huge deal to be considerate of the players behind the screen and say "Yeah, y'know what, we want everyone to have fun, let's figure out a way to help them." Besides, and I'm sorry if this offends you, but that sentiment comes off more as "Fuck off, I don't want you here" more than anything else.
@Zulah "I hear people acting like dying, even in your city to raiders is traumatizing. Why? Your character died. You dont even always lose exp. The characters are in fact fake and will be alive again in a few minutes." If I could point to a reason why this is causing a panic attack in myself or in others, I would, and I know each of us would love a way to not have that happen. Death itself doesn't affect me ( I die hunting and doing stupid shit all the time in game with no issue ), arguments and debates are just peachy, but the second I get attacked now it feels like a mule's kicked me in the chest.
Yeah, I think I just hard disagree with you Argwin. Achaea is a fantasy land of swords and sorcery, war and intrigue, and has always always billed itself as such. Consequence-free murder for people who aren't prepared to deal OOC with IC actions isn't something I can get behind as being preferable to this new system. Even with that being said, you can still literally not kill the Mark hirers and slaughter to your heart's content, getting off scot-free for the horrific actions of your character. If people are in physical danger from interacting with hostile players and denizens who have an issue with their character's actions then either a.) adjusting the behavior or roleplay of their character to keep their IRL health in mind, b.) Just not killing hiring characters or c.) not playing a game that merely is trying to reinforce its own foundations as a living world are all valid avenues to avoid these expanded PVP avenues.
I am not wanting to exclude anyone here, apologies if it comes off that way, I just believe that these new rules are very easily avoidable still for those who do not wish to take part in Achaea's more violent aspects. Violence is tied to violence with these changes still.
I still get the adrenaline shakes pretty regularly when I PK. So like, I'm a reasonably healthy guy. If I had any kind of anxiety issue, or heart trouble, or whatever else? I can totally see how that could cause somebody to get sick. I think you're being willfully obtuse if you can't understand how increased heart rate and all can cause someone to have problems. It's also, as near as I can tell, why people get upset when they get killed- it isn't really the XP (or JUST the XP), it's the crash of all that adrenaline on their system kicking off fight-or-flight.
There was an Aetolian player who had epilepsy, and the PK spam in big group fights could set it off. If she did something that merited being PK'd over, she'd come in, sit down, take the death and then go back about her business- she had just as much a right to play the game as anyone else. If she wandered through a group fight, whenever possible we'd give her time to leave. This was not based in RP, or IC sense, it was just being considerate of the person behind the keyboard by other people behind theirs.
I think overall it's a job well done to make the game more enjoyable for everyone. No one likes to get frustrated because they can't hunt all the denizens they want to anymore.. which has already been a thing for a while in Moghedu for example. But nobody that enjoys PvP wants to sit around bashing all day because people will not engage them or run from them. This fusion or interaction with PvP and PvE, in my opinion, was actually quite genius.
I'm tired of arguing with people who refuse to actually understand what these changes do and do not do, and I'm really tired of repeatedly explaining it.
Sufficed to say, @Synthus your worries about these updates are based on a misinterpretation of what they do, for various reasons that many people have already pointed out to you. Please stop arguing about that you think could happen, and instead focus on the changes as they have been made. Or better yet, don't really think about them at all other than updating your bashing route. They don't affect you!
@Kog I absolutely understand all of this and agree that players should have avenues not to engage in PVP within the world of Achaea should they so choose. I simply believe this change does not at all preclude any of those rights or interfere with them, outside of fringe accidents which can be dealt with exactly as you're saying by the community. If someone with a condition accidentally misses the hiring markers somehow, if they make that known to the Mark or the game in some way afterwards I'm sure that everyone would be perfectly willing to let it drop for the player's sake.
@Goethe I definitely agree with that. If I were such a person, I'd just take a knee at NoT and move on- seems like the best way to go about it.
I think the worry about the game being more pvp-centric has some merit, but this whole change (with the bugs worked out) doesn't seem to be a real problem for that.
Also I worked damn hard on that graph and none of you have even mentioned it.
You have too much faith in people who play this game @Goethe :)
I love all graphs Kog, you know that. Thank you for your efforts!!
Maybe, but then again this is all avoidable by people who wish to avoid it as has been said again and again and again.
I agree with Fendrell and Eurice, etc. If quickly scrolling text gives you heart attacks, then sadly this is not the right game for you. The onus is not on the players, or Administration, to be preventing these things from happening to you. Accidents happen, non-coms die, marks get hired on the offenders, the world moves on. We shouldn’t be held hostage because “oh shot, if I attack this person, am I going to kill them RL?”
I commiserate your condition, it sucks, and no one should have to go through the agony of having to experience life threatening seizures. That is, ultimately, your own responsibility as an adult to take care of, and to realise “Hey, if I play this game, I may, at various times, fall victim to these seizures bc of X, Y, or Z. Do I want to choose to subject myself to that possibility?” The Admin have made every effort to acquiesce to your demands regarding the bashing change (see: big bright red “Don’t fucking do this, guy” warnings). If you choose to willfully ignore that, then you do not get to cry foul when the consequences come, regardless of your RL conditions.
Edit: regarding getting swept up in city raids - just leave your city when a sanction happens. Explore the rich, and vibrant world, or have some tea in the Thera tea house with a friend. No one is forcing you to remain in an area that has become dangerous, and for the most part no raiding party ever hits non-coms that are not sitting with the main raiding group.
@Kog your graph is awesome and I love it.
<3
Aegoth you regularly kill non-defenders during raids… maybe sit this one out…
Graph is good graph. Much data. 7/5
@Thaisen I actually don’t! I only kill people that engage, and my own team, during raids (also, you have no idea how difficult it is to target an out-of-range noncom if I even wanted to). I suggest you stop making assumptions about my behaviour just because you dislike me.
I don't have a problem with this change because it is specific to select NPCs. If it was ever going to apply to the entire area, I would actually be okay with but only if it was an NPC assassin coming after me. I'd love to hunt Azdun and have Zsrachnor come after me. I think it also makes sense for NPC areas to send one of their own out.
Also, this is just my opinion, but if Achaea is going to move more toward pk, it would be helpful to give players more pk tools. I find the amount of work it takes to set everything up so I can see wtf is going on and actually be purposeful in my actions overwhelming. Like CURING ON/OFF is amazing. Think of how much coding that saves players. I struggle to get into pk and get frustrated simply because of things like making a limb counter for earth lord.
i don’t have any opinion about you one way or the other. You have personally done it to me twice and I have heard it from others too..
Maybe that’s bc you always engage in combat defense. Whenever we raid Cyrene, you’re there throwing punches. I’m fascinated by your mindset that I can’t kill you when you actively defend
The only valid post that wasn't repeating since my last, was discovering that @Gurklukke has a fat beaver pic.
@Amranu I apologize for the frustration this has caused. I know my tone and posts have not conveyed this sentiment, but I am thankful for the information you shared. One thing I've wanted since the start is a clear picture of the scope of this change. There's been information that's been supplied that has been conflicted by what others are reporting (Eg. "Non-sentients do not hire" but the lightning eagle in Meropis is hiring on people? Not sure if that's intended or a bug ). I just wish to know what is safe and what isn't, and as my prior posts have, to suggest the alternative of a PvE mark/assassin/consequence rather than a PvP one. Thank you for your patience, I wish you nothing but the best moving forward.
To the rest of you, thanks for your patience, sorry for the frustration, hope you all have a nice day and enjoy the changes.
I haven't defended in a raid in RL years...so...not sure what you're talking about...
@Caelan fat beaver pics for you all day every day big guy.
Sorry, bucko… I don’t play monk, so if you’ve died to me in a raid it’s because 1) you charged in with your defending group 2) sat in a room very nearby in LoS of the raid group with your buddies who intended to engage. 3) wakes in to call guards or perform an action meriting your death. In all cases of which I am capable of attacking/killing you, other people would have to be attacking you as well (as my damage is paltry) and they would certainly be way more careful than me, so I don’t really buy your “i don’t defend” nonsense
That's why the limb damage line was added. Romaen posted a full limb tracker that will work for any class entirely independent of the values of damage you do purely based on that line alone. It's never been easier to get into combat than it is right now between tunnel vision, serverside curing, and the various QoL things that have been implemented to help classes or the new classes being very friendly to manual players.
That doesn't discount the conversation about struggles of players themselves emotionally or physically whatsoever, and that reasoning is more than fair to try to avoid PK as a player and is a separate conversation. Similarly, knowing skills and what they do has also been much less obscured over time so getting the information you need to be ready is also easier.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
So you're telling me with a straight face that after months of grabbing a few kills here and there... I have gone 15 months without securing a kill in a raid defense? That's quite the drought for someone who always defends. My question then is, when does the title of "active defender" wear off....50 IG years? 100?
All that graph says is that you die way more than you get kills, which makes sense for raids. Most people don’t grab kills. There’s no context there showing whether or not you defend (you do), or how often. Nice numbers, but largely irrelevant.
Edit: Let’s also bring up the fact that, since January, you’ve only died all of once to my grubby, non-com slaying hands. How horrifying indeed be my rampage over the innocent defenders of the Vashnars
Yep, and that once was me alone...on the other side of the city...and you alone walk in and proceed to kill me. Whatever...I don't care, I hired on you and the mark failed...that's not the point. The point is that you do it and you have done it to others and if you did it to someone who had these RL struggles it wouldn't be very fun for them.
Gonna have to disagree with you, my friend. I wouldn’t do such a terrible thing to someone who isn’t attacking me. Your revisionist history doesn’t fool anyone. Point being, you make your own bed, and can avoid PK during raids if you really want to
There is no victims on either side of this health issue arguement so stop acting like it.
People with health issues have been, and are, actively try to avoid things that may trigger them.
They aren't blaming any PKer or asking them to change their behaviour. They are just concerned that this opens another route that you might accidently stumble into PK which you are striving to avoid.
The answer is to learn what triggers the contracts and avoid it.
Is this Aegoth's plot to get this thread shut down? Granted, it's probably run it's course at this point.