Walk To Command (Petition for Reversal)

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Comments

  • Vinzent said:
    WALK TO is also pretty important for VI players.
    Hey, vi player here... what are you talking about? Walk to is useful because I am a lazy and do not want to explore every single area in the game, but it is not hard to learn the ones I use or need to manually walk through. The only two things I used walk to on were boars in blackforest, and stopped because three was not worth it, and treekin in the same area, which actually got me killed cause it took me into some kind of jacked up cave. Aside from that it was just an easy way to run to places I did not want to bother exploring over a quest or something which always felt like cheeting anyway. Oh, and saying people are being emotional etc is a good way to make them listen to you, good job.
  • Argwin said:
    Veldrin said:
    Just had a novice who had trouble locating a city denizen he needed for a novice task because of this change

    Which denizen? I tested several city denizens and they all worked.
    Pilgrim Guide one

  • edited January 2021
    ITT: "I am alright with this change, okay back to prospecting and harvesting with my scripts now."
  • Back before I was good at forays, I did a five man foray one time with a group of random folk. I asked the party for help finding the foray, but every other person in my party was visually impaired. I had no idea it was that prevalent until then. Took me like 45 minutes to find it(was a foray newb).

    image

  • I noticed that too when I started playing Aetolia recently. Achaea is still the better game, in my opinion, but there are  some features that would benefit Achaea and yet haven't been implemented.

    There is likely a good reason for this, and I have heard that it is by Sarapis' design that Achaea is relatively obscure and difficult when compared to the other IRE games, which is something the Achaea production team may not be allowed to overturn.
  • QoL improvements are for games where the devs actually like their player base.


  • The circlejerk about terrible admin may be becoming unfair, especially given that they haven't defended themselves nor further explained their motives behind the change.
  • Of most of the things removed from the walk to list, why was Certimene removed? I understand he's easy to find once you know where he is, not sure what's game breaking for him to not be included. 

    I agree with the side that believes this was a bit heavy handed reaction to what happened, and I feel with a bit of time a better solution could have been made. I do hope adjustments can be made. 
  • Great. Since it is only a misunderstanding, we should be seeing a reversal incoming, and apologetic news post.
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USA
    Discontent with the change doesn't surprise me, but the level of outage kinda does. I had no idea WALKTO had expanded to such extent as waking to individual denizens, by number, game-wide. I'm shocked such a functionality was ever added, and not surprised to see that curbed a bit.

    Certimene not being on the list is weird, clearly the admin can exclude denizens for special events, those are true. But I don't feel this is the end of the world folks are painting it to be. Y'all remember we used to hunt buffalo before WALKTO, right? They're always in the same 10-12 rooms and you can still WALKTO Sangre.

    Jovolo said:
    3. "Go ahead and let your various discord channels/OOC clans aware" why is Nicola not relaying this information to the rest of the game and instead relying on other players to spread this message around? This comes across as petty and dismissive, to me, as if it's not worth her time to communicate with the players.
    That's just how Leaders channel works. Admin pass guidance to mortal leaders, who manage their own people. Players often respond better to fellow players, where they might be tempted to rebel against Admin wishes.
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USA
    edited January 2021
    Keorin said:
    I think it would be one thing for WALK TO changing because the admin felt that its prevalence detracted from immersion and engagement with the game world.
    From my vantage, this is what it looks like. A hide-and-seek event was made trivial by a QoL addition that wasn't intended to do that. I admit my immersion is slightly damaged by the idea of having perfect knowledge of every denizen's location across the entire continent, even in areas I'd never visited.

    There was clearly some frustration on part of the Admin, but hey, sometimes that's how issues get highlighted. How many legitimate classlead approvals result from moments of frustration and realization that "really, this is ridiculous"?
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
  • I think the only time I used walkto is to walk to village folks and novices.

    As long as I can still do that 🤷
  • edited January 2021
    Aerek said:
    Keorin said:
    I think it would be one thing for WALK TO changing because the admin felt that its prevalence detracted from immersion and engagement with the game world.
    From my vantage, this is what it looks like. A hide-and-seek event was made trivial by a QoL addition that wasn't intended to do that. I admit my immersion is slightly damaged by the idea of having perfect knowledge of every denizen's location across the entire continent, even in areas I'd never visited.

    There was clearly some frustration on part of the Admin, but hey, sometimes that's how issues get highlighted. How many legitimate classlead approvals result from moments of frustration and realization that "really, this is ridiculous"?

    This isn't actually true, though. As best I can tell, no meaningful progress was made in the event via the use of walkto. And even in that case, removing walkto writ large because they forgot to set the toggle they already had for that denizen would seem excessive, because that wouldn't be a case of walkto writ large having issues for the game.
  • That's not a great argument for its removal, though. People played Achaea without the curingsystem for over a decade, and the game is unambiguously better for having it. I understand that it might not impact you, or maybe even most players, very much. But as someone who tries pretty hard to engage with everyone who's new to the game (whether from another IRE or new to this MUD, or new to MUDs!), I can definitely say that the QoL stuff is the kind of selling point that makes it easy for a person to feel comfortable enough to invest in the game. 

    100%. I first played achaea in college when I had a ton of spare time. I remember the days of painstakingly following along with Shazara's giant world map and memorizing various routes so I could walk quickly. Then I stopped playing when I got a job and had kids. When I finally did give it a try again almost a decade later, I doubt I would have stuck around with the curing system and walk to. This is a complicated game with a huge retention barrier for new players. No need to make that worse. 
  • Laedha said:
    That's not a great argument for its removal, though. People played Achaea without the curingsystem for over a decade, and the game is unambiguously better for having it. I understand that it might not impact you, or maybe even most players, very much. But as someone who tries pretty hard to engage with everyone who's new to the game (whether from another IRE or new to this MUD, or new to MUDs!), I can definitely say that the QoL stuff is the kind of selling point that makes it easy for a person to feel comfortable enough to invest in the game. 

    100%. I first played achaea in college when I had a ton of spare time. I remember the days of painstakingly following along with Shazara's giant world map and memorizing various routes so I could walk quickly. Then I stopped playing when I got a job and had kids. When I finally did give it a try again almost a decade later, I doubt I would have stuck around with the curing system and walk to. This is a complicated game with a huge retention barrier for new players. No need to make that worse. 
    I still have my directions journal. Used to keep it next to me at all times.
  • If there was no discernable advantage to the players for being able to WALKTO this NPC during the event, then why was this such a kneejerk reaction of "OKAY FUCK ALL Y'ALL!"?

    The ability to remove denizens from WALKTO has been present for awhile, and I've seen it used a few different times already that stopped people from WALKTOing certain denizens.

    Now people are just going to wander the world and randomly get merked by Zsarachnor when someone accidentally (or purposefully) leads him out. Where is he? Iunno. I can't see the AREA or WALKTO a dangerous denizen anymore. Better wait for the rightfully upset person to tell us where they died.

    There's a plethora of use cases where WALKTO is actually a friggin AMAZING thing, and actually decreases the amount of difference between Nexus and Mudlet.. and then you've got this one maybe bad thing that TOTALLY RUINED THIS EVENT (/s).
  • UtianimaUtianima Norway and Austria
    Stefana said:
    QoL improvements are for games where the devs actually like their player base.
    Now that's below the belt and uncalled for. If no admin is stepping in here, I will. No need for personal unwarranted attacks.

  • edited January 2021
    Utianima said:
    Stefana said:
    QoL improvements are for games where the devs actually like their player base.
    Now that's below the belt and uncalled for. If no admin is stepping in here, I will. No need for personal unwarranted attacks.
    How is that a personal attack? The administration on this game does act very cliquey. I do my due diligence in the game, report bugs, help newbies, and in general try to be a good and contributory player but for some reason I can't get a straight answer on any question I've asked or have just had messages/questions straight up ignored. None of that gives me the impression that I am liked or even cared for by the administration.
  • I mean...the Black Wave lethal thing is a perfect example that fits the exact same situation as this one. An event was being "ruined" in the perspective of the Admin and it was quickly rectified.

    I'm very excited to hear the reasons on how this change improves the game...because I can't think of any.

  • I am not sure what you mean here. There was only one character in that event we planned around not dying, and I can absolutely assure you lethal highlighting did nothing for them: because I was playing said character.

    What I am pointing to here is the lack of said highlighting was not immediately apparent as a significant factor until it came up in the course of the event. When it did, discussions happened, things changed. It is as simple as that, and is usually how changes born out of events occur: because events have a habit of creating scenarios (or emphasising things) outside of the normal flow of gameplay.

  • People will just write scripts to get around it. While those who don't code will be left with the tedious task of manually walking through areas searching. It's 100% worse for the denizens that constantly move. I thought muds were shooting for a more modern approach that attracts players, not annoy them with tedious tasks. Bashing alone has always been a  grind. Who wants to make it worse?
  • Makarios said:
    I'm not going to go too in depth here (I will tomorrow, but I need to actually sleep and don't want to walk off after posting a lengthy explanation since there will no doubt be questions after the fact), but a couple of quick points:

    - The change was not made because of the quoted leader post. This is an easy thing to assume given the context, but as with many things the situation sparked a conversation after the event. This change came out of that conversation. Often it just takes something like this to highlight a particular topic for discussion. Another example of this that springs to mind was the lethal highlighting that came out of the black wave event. This just doesn't come up usually in an admin context, so when something facilitates that adjustments sometimes happen. It is easy to assign motive or perceived reason in these circumstances, but these changes universally come post fact and not in the moment.

    - We strive to please as many people as we can, but we also cannot please everyone. Sometimes players will fall on the side of the very much not pleased side of that line. We understand this (anyone who has ever played an online game let alone Achaea has been in that situation at least once), but I can assure you even if you are displeased it is because we are looking to improve Achaea. You might not agree, that's fine: but there is no motive beyond looking to make the game the best version of itself that it can be.

    We'll have a breakdown of reasoning and such tomorrow (unless something catastrophic occurs), but I felt it best to make that clarification in the meantime given some of these posts.

    I also look forward to hearing the breakdown of reasoning and such. And if there will be any considerations given to what Rino has said in their comment for VI players. I know 'not all VI players', but Rino's post made many strong arguments, with clear evidence, on the impact this has had upon them.

    I don't want to be cynical about this, but I do hope that what Rino said does not simply get tossed into the 'players will fall on the side of the very much not pleased side of that line' pile. Because it doesn't seem very inclusive if that is the case.
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