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Foraging!

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  • Adrik
    Adrik Member Posts: 745 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent


    Don't worry guys. Foragers have been capped at level 20 (?) with nothing said about it. Aggressive foraging (And goblin pillagers) are now worthless!

    So, foragers likely won't ever be killed except by zerg-rush of Aggressive foragers. So.. that's.. a change. I guess?
    Zekriol
  • Thaisen
    Thaisen Member Posts: 501 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    image
    StefanaAdrikIohannaZbaco
  • Lorath
    Lorath Member Posts: 25 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Ok, so I wasn't the only one that had their foragers reduced in level. I even issued it and got a non-answer as my answer without any details.

  • Silas
    Silas Member Posts: 2,652 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Good change. Thanks @Makarios @Nicola @Ictinus.

  • Lorath
    Lorath Member Posts: 25 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    I agree with the change completely. It would have just been nice to get a post about it instead of being left confused.

    Silas
  • Accipiter
    Accipiter Member Posts: 798 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    But Adrik spent so long doing one command every day, he deserves to be able to own all the wood.
  • Kresslack
    Kresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 6,622 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited August 2020
    Adrik said:
    Have you or a loved one lost foragers in the time between May and now?

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UykYp4pJAMkFfcZAk-iJQNLTCkTGletbVFGBzEs11XM/edit?usp=sharing

    Please, see if it correlates with the time of your slain foragers. We can see who has learned Lesson One of Adrik's Foraging Tips.
    Yep.

    Sent By: Achaea on 07 Aug 2020, 11:16

    Your band of foragers has been exterminated by a hostile force while out on expedition.


    Edit: Nvm, just caught up on the thread. Glad it was finally addressed!



  • Adrik
    Adrik Member Posts: 745 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    So.
     - Forager levels are now capped at 20.
     - Foragers no longer gain experience outside of areas and seasons that produce commodities. They will still gain experience in these areas during these times if they do not gather any commodities.
    Let's get to addressing the issues of this.

    Aggressive foraging is more-or-less dead due to this unless you're bullying someone's level 1-3 foragers.  Why?

    RNG still plays a large issue in fighting foragers. Not only do you have to have RNG that you hit the same person every time your foragers attack, but then you have to play RNG inside of RNG that your foragers will focus fire (or that theirs do not). Because there's a gang up bonus damage (or maybe it was just from someone's foragers being slightly different level. I literally have no-fucking clue how damage formulas work for this.)... So your foragers attack someone elses, same level (20).

    Everyone has the same HP. This is a game of Rock Paper Scissors. Peaceful > Diplomatic > Aggressive > Peaceful. Diplomatic's better if anyone is on aggressive. Peaceful's better if no one is on aggressive. So, let's assume you hit someone in an area, just you two. Diplomatic vs Aggressive.  The RISK vs REWARD is non existent. IF no one has foragers that double team, the Aggressive person will (likely) win if attacks get first move. If the defender has 3 foragers that go "Fuck this aggressive forager in particular". That forager has now just dropped down 3 attacks worth of damage, while your other foragers have taken little to no damage.

    This makes Aggressive not an easy option to ever make, and one that is absolutely never in your favour to do unless you know, FOR CERTAIN, that no one else is in your area besides you and that person (which can change in a moment's notice). 

    tldr; Aggressive foraging is RNG to get the same person every attack. RNG that your foragers, or theirs, don't team up on one forager ruthlessly, and then potential fuckery that someone manipulates the RNG of the first one by having a pal send foragers out.

    Now with the 2nd change, it's actually impossible to raise forager levels without being in an in-season area. Which isn't so much an issue, it's a good (if stupid) change that comes again with the "Hey Foragers are kind of hard to level up, here's how to do it safely" and then BAM foraging leveling nerf (despite their now being a cap).

    Soooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Where does that leave us?

    Well, honestly. This change is still sort-of for the better. It allows people to get into foraging. However, this still needs some fine tuning. Here's my suggestions for the maybe-people that care.

    Foragers:

    Get rid of the "Better at foraging" different specializations. Just have foragers be a completely aesthetical choice that does not affect this at all. I get what the idea was for this. It didn't turn out as intended, because most people just have mix-matched forager groups now.

    Rename "Diplomatic" to "Defensive". Diplomatic would imply they try to talk their way out of situations. Diplomatic foragers just pull an axe on anyone that walks at them aggressively.

    Have their be tangible differences that actually make Peaceful worthwhile compared to Diplomatic. My idea is that Peaceful can avoid 20~33% of all fights. It counts as a fight for an Aggressive forager team: "As your group of foragers descend upon a group of unwitting foragers, the other group runs away at mach speed, fleeing before combat could break into full force." Defensive remains the same. Offensive, however, gets a buff. Offensive foraging means you get a bonus to damage dealt. What that amount is? Iunno.  However, it's a sizable enough difference that if one person goes offensive against one diplomatic, the Offensive person should only lose half of their health to full-kill a Defensive person (see: one defensive forager group of the same level). This means that groups of Defensive foragers rely on the RNG of "Getting hit every attack of the offensive forager". You send 5 groups of level 20 defensive foragers to an area, you're causing them to have to spread their own fire to get you, which is ideal.

    Fucking make it not RNG of what forager attacks what forager. Please. It's absolute horse-shit. Forager 1 vs Forager 1, Forager 2 vs Forager 2. Etc. IF your first forager is dead, Forager 1 and Forager 2 vs Forager 2, etc. If two foragers attack one, split the damage evenly between them. This really should not have been an RNG game.

    Alternatively...

    Just.. make foraging something where people can't offensively forage other people and have everyone gather at the same rate so that we can maybe get this fucking wood shortage under control and actually get wood prices back down to reasonable levels compared to the changes that brought foraging in because jesus fuck. This is still ridiculous, and likely going to get worse as cities might not be able to meet supply for their own city to upkeep wood (3000 a year)... and people wanting to make houses... and totems... and the bajillion other things that require an inordinate amount of wood (300 fucking wood for a **METAL** cot. 300 fucking wood, what the shit is this.)
  • Saonji
    Saonji Member Posts: 918 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Surprised there's no artifacts for Foraging yet. Admin slacking.
    Silas
  • Rakdos
    Rakdos Member Posts: 21
    The wood element is the worse of all of this and what wood people do get they sell at insane prices, driving up the overall cost, compared how little it costs them to forage the wood in the first place.
  • Silas
    Silas Member Posts: 2,652 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The price to send out foragers should probably increase unless wood is going to be made more abundant. It's coming down slowly, but there's a constant demand with each city requiring 3k/year, so the profits available don't really match up to mining or other systems available. With max level foragers, you can spend 10k gold to send out your foragers and make 130k/day (for 6 days out of every 12) with one command, assuming 500 wood gathered at a market price of 260 gold. This is a pretty conservative estimate of the profit as well, since it looks like the max wood gathered would be around 1080/day (45/hr over 24 hours), which would put your earnings for that single command input up to 280.8k.

  • Thaisen
    Thaisen Member Posts: 501 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    That would just cause market prices to go up though...
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