Shop Policies and Wishlist for Player-Run Shops

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  • Then you shoot the government. Not hard, militia and then cast their choice of alcohol overboard, purchase Louisiana from the bumpkins and then civil war for the right to own geese.
  • edited April 2020
    Well, we're getting quite philosophical here!

    In the end though, no matter how you define ownership, the fact that cities can seize shops is undisputed - the question is just under what circumstances and in what way it is proper for them to do so.
  • Yes, cities can do all of this. And technically, with no reason! There is quite literally nothing stopping a city from repossessing all 'owned' shops, and just renting them out, if this is the manner in which people want shops handled.

    Still dickish though.
  • Each city has thier own concept.  That's what I was saying at the start.  There's no universal rule dictating how a city must run themselves.

    Targossas is a city of fanatical religious devouts.  I've honestly ALWAYS been surprised they have ever allowed outside shopkeepers to rent, let alone "own", any part of the city made by thier Gods.
  • edited April 2020
    Milabar said:
    Private housing can be blocked, denying any access to said housing.  That's the same as reclaiming.  Private housing can also be force entered by Council and development minister at any time, proving the claim that all within the sphere of influence is indeed, said organization land.

    Perhaps they sold said shop for 100k, ergo the amount given to her

    O.o

    No it's not. That land remains mine, the city can do nothing further with it.

    It's magnitudes less valuable than a shop, both in supply and perceived utility, but they cannot resell it to someone else without my involvement.

    (Edited because I originally implied housing was lower demand than shops, which wasn't my intended meaning and most likely isn't trye.)
  • If said land is blocked off, and you can not access it, seems to me that regardless of your claim of "ownership" you've got nothing but a supposed claim.

    I claim to own Delos, but alas, doesn't always mean it's true.

  • Milabar said:

    The only thing you truly own is yourself.  Everything else is temporary.

    DO you though? How do you know your free will is in fact, your own? Are your decisions predestined?

    Not sure what any of this has to do with Achaean shop ownership but WOW this got weird.
  • I'm pretty sure I don't need your consent to buy Delos.
  • There was a deal offered that fell off the table. You can find out details about it in-game.
  • Sothantos said:
    There was a deal offered that fell off the table. You can find out details about it in-game.
    Skye said:
    ... but that doesn't mean you don't have to be an asshole. 

  • Human decency?  In Achaea?  That's like proclaiming that PK is perfectly balanced and needs no work at all.

    The point is in 500 years, she's more then made her investment back.  Trying to squeeze more out simply for what?

    Cyrene and Targossas are at odds.  Targossas is a fanatical zealot City.  It's obvious thier decision was made and both mechanically and by human decency they gave her something while being disrespected not once, but multiple times from Cyrene to thier Gods.

    Cities have been reclaiming shops since the beginning of time.  If this wasn't something currently in the public notice, none of this would be even discussed.

    I promise you, if any Eleusian shopkeeper became enemied to Eleusis, the moment I logged in that day the shop would be closed and repossessed.

    There would be no argument, there would be no dispute, it would simply happen.

    Much like I'd expect, and indeed have done to me, in the past.  

    And just for the record, I have nothing against anyone involved.  I have no care either way.  But to constantly bitch and moan about something that's seriously within a cities right to do, with NO reprieve, is dumb.  

    If ya all want to give out your city credits to an enemy, or the member of an enemy organization, that's on you as a leader.  But, if you're looking to dictate how it must be because you're scared one day it'll happen to you, then go back to fishing and involving yourself very little in anything of actual consequence.

    After all, it's just a game, geez.


  • 100k sounded fairer than 28000k. 
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess Bellatere
    edited April 2020
    Another point:

    Adrik earlier on said that shops were rented 'cheap' at 27k per year. I've been approached by a number of cities whenever a lease opens up, and I've always turned them down because I know I'd just be making a loss unless I sacrifice part of my stockroom space to sell something just to make back the rent.

    I own a shop in Hashan. Yes, own. I bought it off Trey, that's why he's laughing. I only sell food and drink in it and I usually take in about 10-25k per year before taxes (8.5k).

    The idea was to have a shop that I didn't have to worry about the rent and run it indefinitely or until I had to sell it off to make back what was essentially the escrow. I'm under no illusions that I'd make back what I spent purchasing the shop.

    Yes, it's my choice to stock such low-profit wares, I just want to be able to run a restaurant franchise because, y'know, that's my RP and I've no interest in running around with my autoharvester for hours to run a cookie-cutter template shop like every other tenant trying to make back their overheads.

    Basically 75% of shops are just walmart now and the ones that sell crafted items off NDS PUBLIC to pad their wares are the worst.

    So yes, cities can control their shops and set their leases however they like, but in that way they also inadvertantly control how boring their shops become.


  • SkyeSkye The Duchess Bellatere
    Milabar said:

    Cities have been reclaiming shops since the beginning of time.  If this wasn't something currently in the public notice, none of this would be even discussed.

    I promise you, if any Eleusian shopkeeper became enemied to Eleusis, the moment I logged in that day the shop would be closed and repossessed.

    There would be no argument, there would be no dispute, it would simply happen.

    That reminds me, let's talk about Liliana and her Eleusian shop, shall we? I'm sure a lot of Cyrenians remember that one.


  • Milabar said:

    There would be no argument, there would be no dispute, it would simply happen.


    Well nobody ever claimed you weren't an asshat.
  • I mean, I mentioned in an earlier post that my (almost)reposessed shop sure as shit wasn't going to get 2k. I see shops as being worth 1.5k credits (cuz I've seen em sold for that) and so I offered 1250. If the shop was being sold for 2k, 1500 would have been a reasonable "F U" while still giving fair value to what the shops is worth. The 'she already got her worth out of it' is a shitty argument too, but there's nothing relatable in game to compare it to without sounding ridiculous, because it -is- ridiculous. You buy a SoA and raid for a RL year, did you get your moneys worth? Can somebody else just have it now?

    Maybe I'm not jaded enough, having never wanted to own a shop, and never having one taken from me. But maaaaaaan if you can't recognize a self feeding cycle of 'this person treated me like shit, so I too will treat people like shit', that's practically the definition of toxic playerbase.
  • So, the person listed as propriator on wares is the owner as far as the game is concerned? Like aside from people saying 'this is only a rental' there is no way to distinguish between a shop owned by the city but rented out and one owned by a person? Because it is very rare that I have seen 'City of X' as the one running the shop.
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess Bellatere
    Some cities (e.g. Ashtan and Hashan) practice leasing by keeping the Chancellor as the proprietor, and then the Chancellor allows people to stock those shops by giving them a key and adding them as an ally. Usually for such rental arrangements, the lease in its entirety (about 270-350k for ten years) is paid up front and includes taxes.

    Other cities (e.g. Cyrene) will appoint the shop to the tenant, allowing them to appear as the proprietor. The tenant will pay their rent on a yearly basis. Cyrene does it by combining the rent with the yearly taxes so the entire amount is paid the same way taxes are paid in the shop.


  • In most cases, the shop is transferred to whoever is either buying the shop (owner), renting the shop, or managing the shop for an individual owner or org owned shop. There really is no difference in game mechanics because shop ownership is being transferred regardless of whether it is a shop rental or sold to a new owner. Shop owners generally don't have to pay leasing fees, though they are responsible for city taxes. Owners also aren't held to time limited rental terms.

    I've only seen one difference, and that's in Ashtan. They keep rental shops in the name of the Chancellor, while simply shop allying the tenant.
    Give us -real- shop logs! Not another misinterpretation of features we ask for, turned into something that either doesn't help at all, or doesn't remotely resemble what we wanted to begin with.

    Thanks!

    Current position of some of the playerbase, instead of expressing a desire to fix problems:

    Vhaynna: "Honest question - if you don't like Achaea or the current admin, why do you even bother playing?"


  • Targossas's city shops earn 10k per Achaean year from leasing. Paying back 2000cr would mean that we wouldn't make that gold back for 2800 years.

    That people are willing to vastly overvalue city shops is not at all our problem. For reference, the second highest offer made on that shop was 500k.

  • So to put a little perspective, with help from Ismay...

    She just got offered a 300 year old shop for 2000cr. After some digging, that shop went no higher than 7 figures. Credits valued at 5.5k per.

    The shop saved 5.5 million in lease fees. So they spent at max 9.9 million on it. Saved 5.5 million or more... And then tried to resell it for 28 million gold in today's economy.

    Not to mention how much they made over the 300 years.

    Fuck that lmao. If they get their shop taken, they've already made more than they spent on it, with likely even more it they sell it for 300 to 500cr.
  • Wait, I could lease a shop for 10k per year? Why am I paying like 10 times that in crew fees when I could have access to a stockroom?
  • You pay crew fees? I only put gold in my strongbox once a year to castoff then immediately dock again in order to avoid drydocking. Then, withdraw the gold again.

    Besides, you actually have to run a shop to own/lease one.
    Give us -real- shop logs! Not another misinterpretation of features we ask for, turned into something that either doesn't help at all, or doesn't remotely resemble what we wanted to begin with.

    Thanks!

    Current position of some of the playerbase, instead of expressing a desire to fix problems:

    Vhaynna: "Honest question - if you don't like Achaea or the current admin, why do you even bother playing?"


  • Pff, have to run a shop, just put minerals in there for 20 per and it would look like it is running but no one would buy anything.

    And yeah, galley crew fees are exorbitant and I like to keep them happy else it takes 5 minutes to turn around when you undock.
  • Adrik said:

    Fuck that lmao. If they get their shop taken, they've already made more than they spent on it, with likely even more it they sell it for 300 to 500cr.

    Why do you continue to think this argument is a good one?  This just makes you sound like even more of an asshole than you already do, which I personally didn't think was possible.

    At that rate....You've already gotten your money's worth out of all your artifacts...please transfer them to me for free.

    Milabar said:
    But, if you're looking to dictate how it must be because you're scared one day it'll happen to you, then go back to fishing and involving yourself very little in anything of actual consequence.


    Holy crap...we all know you are a bitter old man, but this may be the worst shit I've ever read. Basically if you aren't willing to take the risk of losing hundreds of real life dollars then don't even bother playing the game.

    It is really disheartening when the nicest and most helpful person in the game gets shrubbed for a month for breaking a rule nobody realized existed but everyone with these shitty attitudes is allowed to run free and spread their shit all over the place, likely turning away countless new players/customers.
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